Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #181 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Toledo style from Pangasinan and other Ilocano arnis styles (Leo Salinel) 2. Re: Cheap Kettlebells (Scott Kinney) 3. RE: Cheap Kettlebells? (Stovall, Craig) 4. Re: Toledo style from Pangasinan and other Ilocano arnis styles (rggeE O.) 5. Bot's Kali de Leon (jay de leon) 6. RE: RE: Cheap Kettlebells? (David Whitley) 7. Re: Cutting and stabbing material (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Toledo style from Pangasinan and other Ilocano arnis styles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, Is your cousin GM Nes's arnis style (Toledo) learned from a student of the famous champion from Pangasinan, Santiago Toledo, who according to Giron arnis escrima history, was defeated by Dalmacio Bergonia, the teacher of Flaviano Vergara, who in turn taught the late GM Leo Giron when they were in the USA? I'd like to see and experience or perhaps learn the Pangasinan styles of arnis, too. I have a friend here at the University of the Philippines in Quezon City who is an LSAI/LESKAS student, who works at the nearby Maryknoll College as a high school teacher. After the LSAI guys did a demo, he passed by one of his co-workers, an old man who worked as a utility man at the school premises. The old man said, "So, you know arnis," smilingly and said that he also knew arnis. My friend asked him what style he knew, and he replied, "Pangasinan style" and then proceeded to do a thrusting-oriented series of moves with a short pole nearby as a demonstration. My friend says the old man retired and is no longer available at that college. When Prof. Bot mentions that those words were from those regions (pagkalikali, didya, etc.), he wasn't saying that they were in general use in those areas. Most likely, very very few people used those terms at all. It's just like Brazilian Jujitsu--just because we call it brazilian doesn't mean you can find it in any street corner or mall plaza in Belo Horizonte or in Sao Paolo or in Manaus, unless there are BJJ schools there. I will be visiting the Ilocos regions sometime soon and will be looking for old men who still know the old Ilocano arnis styles. Would you know of anyone who might oblige me some information there? ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Scott Kinney" To: Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:55:12 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cheap Kettlebells Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've not used them, but IronMind (www.ironmind.com) sells kettlebell handles that can be loaded with standard (not Olympic) plates. That at least lets you change weights as you progress without buying new pairs all the time. Just my US$.02 Scott Kinney Amateur Barbarian ----- Original Message ----- > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:04:41 -0400 > From: Buz Grover > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Cheap Kettlebells? > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Anyone out there in ED Land know where some inexpensive kettlebells can > be found? Usually a little perusing on the internet locates a discount > source for a given item, but I've been unable to find one for > kettlebells. Heck, even eBay has been coming up dry. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:13:17 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Cheap Kettlebells? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes...I feel your pain. Do a search on 'Detroit Barbell Kettlebells', or some permutation of that. I know they manufacture a hollow kettlebell "shell" that you can fill with sand, water, lead shot, or whatever else. I think it goes for about $65 plus shipping. Seems like someone was telling me that York Barbell (or maybe it was New York Barbell) made a version of the kettlebell that was substantially cheaper than those dandies they sell at Dragondoor. You can always go with the handles that you load plates onto, but I know the die-hard kettlebellers don't like those. At any rate, it's a cheap alternative. I think Ironmind makes some of those. I know it's blasphemous to say this, but I truly think you can do a lot of the same things with a dumbbell that you can with a kettlebell. The balance of the load is different, but you should be able to emulate the same overall movement pattern. If I'm doing squats while holding the weight in one hand over my head...does my body care if I'm holding a dumbbell or a KB? The whole point is that you're introducing stress to your body in order to elicit an adaptive response. At any rate, the most you'd normally pay for a dumbbell is around $.25 per pound. Compare that with the price per pound on KBs. Hope this helps. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:37:09 -0400 From: "rggeE O." Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Toledo style from Pangasinan and other Ilocano arnis styles Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Leo, Thanks for bringing it up. I too would like to learn the Pangasinan/Ilokano style or system of Arnis/Eskrima. I was born and raised in Cavite but my parents are both "GIs"-- Genuine Ilocano/Ilocana. So i think it would be just appropriate if i could learn the martial arts from my parents hometown, province or region. Thanks again, and i hope that Jay will help us on this. Take care and God bless "Mabuhay ang Pamamaraang Pinoy!" Reggei Geralde --- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:52:29 From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: >Jay, > >Is your cousin GM Nes's arnis style (Toledo) learned >from a student of the famous champion from Pangasinan, >Santiago Toledo, who according to Giron arnis escrima >history, was defeated by Dalmacio Bergonia, the >teacher of Flaviano Vergara, who in turn taught the >late GM Leo Giron when they were in the USA? > >I'd like to see and experience or perhaps learn the >Pangasinan styles of arnis, too. I have a friend here >at the University of the Philippines in Quezon City >who is an LSAI/LESKAS student, who works at the nearby >Maryknoll College as a high school teacher. After the >LSAI guys did a demo, he passed by one of his >co-workers, an old man who worked as a utility man at >the school premises. The old man said, "So, you know >arnis," smilingly and said that he also knew arnis. My >friend asked him what style he knew, and he replied, >"Pangasinan style" and then proceeded to do a >thrusting-oriented series of moves with a short pole >nearby as a demonstration. > >My friend says the old man retired and is no longer >available at that college. > >When Prof. Bot mentions that those words were from >those regions (pagkalikali, didya, etc.), he wasn't >saying that they were in general use in those areas. >Most likely, very very few people used those terms at >all. It's just like Brazilian Jujitsu--just because we >call it brazilian doesn't mean you can find it in any >street corner or mall plaza in Belo Horizonte or in >Sao Paolo or in Manaus, unless there are BJJ schools >there. > >I will be visiting the Ilocos regions sometime soon >and will be looking for old men who still know the old >Ilocano arnis styles. Would you know of anyone who >might oblige me some information there? > >===== >Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > ____________________________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:15:41 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Bot's Kali de Leon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bot wrote : BTW, I've run into people who say they practice a style called Kali de Leon. It appears to be founded by someone (or some people, not sure which) with the surname of de Leon. Are you by any chance related to them? Just curious. Hi Bot: There is a well-known guro named Jun de Leon teaching out of Toronto, Canada who calls his style Kali de Leon. He has a website, he is listed in ED's list of FMA instructors, and I would not be surprised if he has students who are members of ED. I went back to his website but could not determine his province of origin, although it appears he spent some time in Manila. So I do not know if we are related. The surname "de Leon" is common in RP. In my case, the de Leon family originally came from Biec, Binmaley, Pangasinan. The family was huge, fairly prominent and well-to-do in town, and are related to the following families--Vinluan, Ferrer, Manaois, Rovillos, Doria and Fernandez (GM Nes Fernandez's mother who passed away recently was a de Leon and my dad's cousin). So if you are a descendant of any of these families from Binmaley, Pangasinan, chances are, we are related. Which reminds me, a few years ago, I was contacted by phone by an FMA guro named Mar de Leon (no relation). He was teaching out of National City, CA but we lost contact because he moved. I am not sure but I believe he had affiliations with the Pedoy/Derobio practitioners in North County, CA. (near San Diego, CA). If anybody knows his contact number, please email me privately. Thanks, Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "David Whitley" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] RE: Cheap Kettlebells? Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:38:30 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have the adjustable handles, that is what i started with. After training with fixed kettlebells, i can honestly say they are far superior. As far as expense goes, they are a one time investment (unlike a gym membership)that will never wear out & you will never need to replace unless you manage to break the handle, in which case you did something really dumb to break it. Dragondoor (Pavel's associates) are a top notch company & they offer money-back guarentees on everthing they have. If you can find a certified instructor in your area, some sell kettlebells at a discount and you will benefit from a few lessons.   [IMAGE] ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Stovall, Craig" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Cheap Kettlebells? Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:13:17 -0500 <<>> Yes...I feel your pain. Do a search on 'Detroit Barbell Kettlebells', or some permutation of that. I know they manufacture a hollow kettlebell "shell" that you can fill with sand, water, lead shot, or whatever else. I think it goes for about $65 plus shipping. Seems like someone was telling me that York Barbell (or maybe it was New York Barbell) made a version of the kettlebell that was substantially cheaper than those dandies they sell at Dragondoor. You can always go with the handles that you load plates onto, but I know the die-hard kettlebellers don't like those. At any rate, it's a cheap alternative. I think Ironmind makes some of those. I know it's blasphemous to say this, but I truly think you can do a lot of the same things with a dumbbell that you can with a kettlebell. The balance of the load is different, but you should be able to emulate the same overall movement pattern. If I'm doing squats while holding the weight in one hand over my head...does my body care if I'm holding a dumbbell or a KB? The whole point is that you're introducing stress to your body in order to elicit an adaptive response. At any rate, the most you'd normally pay for a dumbbell is around $.25 per pound. Compare that with the price per pound on KBs. Hope this helps. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cutting and stabbing material To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I was wondering what the members of the digest use to practice actual cutting > and stabbing with blades, i.e. what type of material are you using? How long > does the material last? Do you put clothing over whatever you are cutting? > Do you use different material for folders as opposed to say a kris? Thanks in > advance for any and all replies. Two things we've tried... (1) a 2by about 3ft+ long with one end rounded down to handle size. Wrap the business end with pipe insulation and duct tape. Swing it at the partner holding the knife and let them slash at the 2by. (2) take a 4by, a bit of concrete and a cheap bucket. Set the 4by into el cheapo bucket and poor in the concrete. Use the pole as a "dequerdas pole" (for those familiar with an Inayan dequerdas stick). You can move it to different positions (standing, laying on its side, swinging back and forth a bit). Wrap with tape or insulation or cloth as you like. I just use it as is. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest