Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:35:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #191 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Cacoy Canete Book (Sam Bell Jr) 2. Cutting (Larry Christensen) 3. Re: Cutting (ulfhead@integrity.com) 4. CRKT Knives (was Cutting) (Phil Elmore) 5. cutting (Dale) 6. Re: Tragic Events in Iraq (steven ledwith) 7. Re: Tragic Events in Iraq (Aaron Alejandro) 8. Free Training Class Los Angeles, Sat. 22nd (Marc Scott) 9. another Cacoy seminar (Ray Terry) 10. tires and sledgehammers (Phil Hurcum) 11. Re: Tragic Events in Iraq (Ken Ingram) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Sam Bell Jr" To: Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:51:33 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Cacoy Canete Book Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Try looking one www.alibris.com or www.abebooks.com. Sam --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Larry Christensen" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:54:32 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Cutting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In my opinion, a line has been crossed here. Poor taste, poor form. Change the subject, move on quickly. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:49:39 -0500 From: ulfhead@integrity.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Cutting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Larry Christensen : > In my opinion, a line has been crossed here. Poor taste, poor form. > Change the subject, move on quickly. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Change of subject then... Does anyone have feed back on the CRKT M16 model knives? I usually carry the Ryan 7 and like it but am curious about the M16 and M21 seris. Any input would be great. Thanks. - Tyrkon Lawson - --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:18:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] CRKT Knives (was Cutting) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Reviews page of The Martialist www.themartialist.com contains a cross-section look at the M16 line of knives. I am currently evaluating the M21 line as well and will publish reviews of those eventually. My earlier M16s did not have the Lake and Walker Knife Safety (LAWKS), but to my knowledge all new CRKT tactical folders have it. Phil ulfhead@integrity.com wrote: Quoting Larry Christensen : > In my opinion, a line has been crossed here. Poor taste, poor form. > Change the subject, move on quickly. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Change of subject then... Does anyone have feed back on the CRKT M16 model knives? I usually carry the Ryan 7 and like it but am curious about the M16 and M21 seris. Any input would be great. Thanks. - Tyrkon Lawson - _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dale" To: Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:40:08 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] cutting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For a forum of knife fighters I don't think Ray's question was entirely irrelevant. Didn't see the video, don't want to. However, I've trained the knife for many years. The neck IS a target. Our FMA lore is full of leather neck type stories and other such beheadings. Quite a few FMA guys practice on animal parts to simulate human flesh. Everyone feels awful about Nick Berg's murder, perhaps the event is still too fresh in our minds to discuss at this time. I think what Ray may have been getting at goes back to the magic wand theory. "My knife can cut anything, like on Kill Bill." When I cut the cord during the birth of my child, the doc gave me scissors. I was tempted to go for the Spyderco, but there's that whole infection thing. What I thought would be an easy clip was not at all. I really had to get on it. Clipping the air in practice wouldn't have taught me how tough that tissue was. I believe that's what the original thread was about in the first place. Dale --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Discussing this topic is exactly what we should do. I don't think it's disrectful to the Berg family either. Do you speak for the Berg family? --- Aaron Alejandro wrote: > Mr. Terry, > > Please accept my greatest respects for the forum you > provide for martial > artist to discuss topics important to our various > styles, traditions and > training concepts. You requested comments, so here > are mine. While I enjoy > good discussion and politics, I would request that > we do not engage a > discussion regarding the beheading of Mr. Berg. > Simply put, it was tragic. > To have a discussion as to whether the knife was > sharp or not, is absurd! We > lost an American life! Whether it was to a firearm, > bladed weapon, on video > or not, the loss of life is a part of war, but does > not have to be a part of a > martial arts forum. For what purpose other than to > evaluate the method, > sharpness of weapon or death timetable? As > professional martial artists, we > should already know these things and take heed to > the "reality" of the outcome > of practicing with such weapons. I simply request > that we don't have the > discussion on the forum out of respect to Mr. Berg's > family -- if for no other > reason. > > There is no such thing as an atrocity of war....war > is an atrocity. Our > American soldiers are there doing a job and we > should support them whole > heartedly. I enjoyed the forum discussion about the > soldiers that fought back > some Iraqi troops with bladed weapons! That's good > discussion! Discussions > regarding the tragic events of Mr. Berg should not > be a part of a forum I have > grown fond of reading. Let us rise above any such > discussion. > > With Great Respect to the Berg Family and all of our > soldiers serving this > country, > Aaron Alejandro > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Aaron Alejandro" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No, I do not speak for the Berg family -- maybe you do? However, I have a son and daughter. I don't believe if this happened to my children, wife, family member or even a friend that I would want, nor appreciate, a martial arts forum discussing the particulars of the methods used to take my childs head off while being videotaped! Maybe I'm in the minority, but don't believe so. Let's get back to talking about terminology, what section of a region an art hails from and what systems work best -- leave this discussion for someone else. I can think of many topics which could provide good discussion on this forum -- not the technique of beheading used on an American held hostage. This is a no brainer! Let's move on. Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: "steven ledwith" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq > Discussing this topic is exactly what we should do. > I don't think it's disrectful to the Berg family > either. Do you speak for the Berg family? > --- Aaron Alejandro wrote: > > Mr. Terry, > > > > Please accept my greatest respects for the forum you > > provide for martial > > artist to discuss topics important to our various > > styles, traditions and > > training concepts. You requested comments, so here > > are mine. While I enjoy > > good discussion and politics, I would request that > > we do not engage a > > discussion regarding the beheading of Mr. Berg. > > Simply put, it was tragic. > > To have a discussion as to whether the knife was > > sharp or not, is absurd! We > > lost an American life! Whether it was to a firearm, > > bladed weapon, on video > > or not, the loss of life is a part of war, but does > > not have to be a part of a > > martial arts forum. For what purpose other than to > > evaluate the method, > > sharpness of weapon or death timetable? As > > professional martial artists, we > > should already know these things and take heed to > > the "reality" of the outcome > > of practicing with such weapons. I simply request > > that we don't have the > > discussion on the forum out of respect to Mr. Berg's > > family -- if for no other > > reason. > > > > There is no such thing as an atrocity of war....war > > is an atrocity. Our > > American soldiers are there doing a job and we > > should support them whole > > heartedly. I enjoyed the forum discussion about the > > soldiers that fought back > > some Iraqi troops with bladed weapons! That's good > > discussion! Discussions > > regarding the tragic events of Mr. Berg should not > > be a part of a forum I have > > grown fond of reading. Let us rise above any such > > discussion. > > > > With Great Respect to the Berg Family and all of our > > soldiers serving this > > country, > > Aaron Alejandro > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Scott To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Free Training Class Los Angeles, Sat. 22nd Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will be running a free training session this Saturday may 22nd at twelve noon in the Korea Town area of Los Angeles near Crenshaw and Olympic. This class will cover edged weapon control and defense (the same class I run for ERT/SWAT) and controlling the tie-up/clinch, and striking from over-under, other forms of body control, and disengagement techniques (yes truly how to tactically run away ) We will work on drills meant to increase skill in these areas that are not only effective and realistic but fun as well. I will bring all the training gear needed such as FISTMAN suit and training weapons. I welcome everyone to attend. I know this is short notice but I need 5 people minimum to make it work. So please reserve. There is no alterior motive to this class, other than introducing people to some new techniques and ideas. Whatever your skill level please feel free to come and have a good time. Please email me at: marcdscott@yahoo.com if you want to attend. If you can't make it but know someone who may feel free to pass this along! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] another Cacoy seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Gm Cacoy Canete seminar. Saturday June 5, 2004 10 AM - 5 PM Roks Tae Kwon Do Master 7511 Monterey Street Gilroy, California 95020 $50.00 For more info... Tobias Farmer 408-846-8440 tjwfarmer@cs.com Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] tires and sledgehammers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Having had some personal experience with hammers, axe handles tire irons and tires. Use extreme caution when hammering on a tire with a sledgehammer. Or any of the objects listed above. The hammer will rebound back towards you direclty reversing the strike you just made. Paulo to the head will hit you, quicker and harder than you hit the tires. I remember once on eof my teachers was showing us how to fight with a sash/handkerchief and he was explaining you could tie a rock or a large nut into the corner to give it weight. He went on to say he hit himself on the head and almost knocked himself out! ;) ` Phil ===== Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" www.arkangelmartialarts.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Ingram To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well, you don't speak for me. Ray Terry seems to own the list, so if he thinks the topic is not up for discussion we'll get an answer. Your opinion has been voiced. Now take it and avoid this topic. YOU should move on and stop trying to control what people talk about. If you don't like the discussion, the door is that way ----> On Wed, 19 May 2004, Aaron Alejandro wrote: > No, I do not speak for the Berg family -- maybe you do? However, I have a > son and daughter. I don't believe if this happened to my children, wife, > family member or even a friend that I would want, nor appreciate, a martial > arts forum discussing the particulars of the methods used to take my childs > head off while being videotaped! > > Maybe I'm in the minority, but don't believe so. > > Let's get back to talking about terminology, what section of a region an art > hails from and what systems work best -- leave this discussion for someone > else. I can think of many topics which could provide good discussion on > this forum -- not the technique of beheading used on an American held > hostage. > > This is a no brainer! Let's move on. > > Aaron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steven ledwith" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq > > > > Discussing this topic is exactly what we should do. > > I don't think it's disrectful to the Berg family > > either. Do you speak for the Berg family? > > --- Aaron Alejandro wrote: > > > Mr. Terry, > > > > > > Please accept my greatest respects for the forum you > > > provide for martial > > > artist to discuss topics important to our various > > > styles, traditions and > > > training concepts. You requested comments, so here > > > are mine. While I enjoy > > > good discussion and politics, I would request that > > > we do not engage a > > > discussion regarding the beheading of Mr. Berg. > > > Simply put, it was tragic. > > > To have a discussion as to whether the knife was > > > sharp or not, is absurd! We > > > lost an American life! Whether it was to a firearm, > > > bladed weapon, on video > > > or not, the loss of life is a part of war, but does > > > not have to be a part of a > > > martial arts forum. For what purpose other than to > > > evaluate the method, > > > sharpness of weapon or death timetable? As > > > professional martial artists, we > > > should already know these things and take heed to > > > the "reality" of the outcome > > > of practicing with such weapons. I simply request > > > that we don't have the > > > discussion on the forum out of respect to Mr. Berg's > > > family -- if for no other > > > reason. > > > > > > There is no such thing as an atrocity of war....war > > > is an atrocity. Our > > > American soldiers are there doing a job and we > > > should support them whole > > > heartedly. I enjoyed the forum discussion about the > > > soldiers that fought back > > > some Iraqi troops with bladed weapons! That's good > > > discussion! Discussions > > > regarding the tragic events of Mr. Berg should not > > > be a part of a forum I have > > > grown fond of reading. Let us rise above any such > > > discussion. > > > > > > With Great Respect to the Berg Family and all of our > > > soldiers serving this > > > country, > > > Aaron Alejandro > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > > Resource > > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- ============================================================================ As recently as 1972, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia said that the jury has an "...unreviewable and irreversible power... to acquit in disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...." -- (US vs Dougherty, 473 F 2d 1113, 1139 (1972)) http://www.caught.net http://fija.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest