Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:01:47 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #192 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cutting (sgt evans) 2. Re: CRKT Knives (was Cutting) (ulfhead@integrity.com) 3. Mr. Berg's family's right to privacy (Stephen Lamade) 4. Tanto Blades (was Cutting) (Phil Elmore) 5. Re: cutting (steven ledwith) 6. Cutting (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Tragic Events in Iraq (steven ledwith) 8. Re: Tanto Blades (was Cutting) (ulfhead@integrity.com) 9. Aaron,No hard feelings (steven ledwith) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "sgt evans" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:01:36 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cutting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Master Terry's point is doubtless missed by some. When you do training is it to workup a sweat or to examine ways to live and defend life. Learn to look for lessons in the strangest of places. Open your eyes to satanic as well as good in the world since both exist all around us even if it is not easy to stomach. Mr. Pearl, Mr. Berg. The next one might be you. Lessons for all you to digest or you might consider going to Tae Bo. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:14:34 -0500 From: ulfhead@integrity.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] CRKT Knives (was Cutting) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Phil Elmore : > The Reviews page of The Martialist www.themartialist.com contains a > cross-section look at the M16 line of knives. I am currently evaluating the > M21 line as well and will publish reviews of those eventually. My earlier > M16s did not have the Lake and Walker Knife Safety (LAWKS), but to my > knowledge all new CRKT tactical folders have it. > > Phil > Thanks Phil. Great reviews. Another question on this topic. I have always preferred the drop point or spear point. Is there an advantage to the "tanto" style blade? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:18:17 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Berg's family's right to privacy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Aaron Alejandro wrote: "I simply request that we don't have the discussion on the forum out of respect to Mr. Berg's family -- if for no other reason." What better reason? Essentially this is a privacy issue: the right to privacy of Mr. Berg's family vs. the right to discuss his horrific death on an internet forum. The fact that the question is still open is strong evidence that the notion of a right to privacy is still fading, fading, fading in this country. It's something (the notion of a right to privacy) that our 18th century forefathers would have regarded without comment - especially public comment. If you haven't already figured out that the method of execution (actually, murder) was designed to instill, well - terror...then you haven't been paying attention. As an alternative topic, I suggest "the method of smashing someone's skull in with a brick after pulling them from a truck cab during the OJ Simpson L.A. riots." Makes about as much sense as this one. Best, Steve Lamade --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Tanto Blades (was Cutting) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There are two types of tanto -- the proper Asian tanto, which retains its curve and is a "draw cutting" blade, and the "Americanized tanto," which is two angles meeting at point we'll call the secondary point on a knife. Americanized tantos are very easy to sharpen because they're just two straight edges you can treat separately -- there's no curve to deal with. The Americanized tanto is arguably stronger through the point than a more traditional blade, but actually gives up some penetrating power for this reinforcement if we're thinking in terms of depth of thrust into a soft target. (Lynn Thompson popularized the tanto in the USA, if you ask me, and as seen on his videos it's the best tool for stabbing car doors and car hoods. I try to keep that in mind in case I'm expecting an attack by Chevrolets.) The downside of having no belly is that you have no belly, which degrades slashing performance somewhat. On the opposite side of *that*, the secondary point sometimes helps "grab" the work when slashing with that type of blade. If you ask me, though, choosing a tanto is simply a stylistic choice. I don't believe there's anything a tanto does measurably better than any other type of knife (though the secondary tip is often good for scoring). I like the tanto blade a lot and went through a phase in which that's all I bought for a time, or mostly so. If you like spear-point blades, the CRKT Carson M21 is the way to go. The larger version is... well, larger, but the added weight to the blade means it opens and closes more smoothly than the smaller version. Both are very attractive swept spearpoints with deep bellies. www.themartialist.com Thanks Phil. Great reviews. Another question on this topic. I have always preferred the drop point or spear point. Is there an advantage to the "tanto" style blade? -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:33:22 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] cutting To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well put Dale. Most of the subcribers are probably adults so we should be able to discuss any pertinent subject . Let us not forget that we practice "arts" originally designed for killing people. Also, I don't recall anyone making light of the Berg incident. --- Dale wrote: > For a forum of knife fighters I don't think Ray's > question was entirely > irrelevant. Didn't see the video, don't want to. > However, I've trained the > knife for many years. The neck IS a target. Our > FMA lore is full of > leather neck type stories and other such beheadings. > Quite a few FMA guys > practice on animal parts to simulate human flesh. > Everyone feels awful > about Nick Berg's murder, perhaps the event is still > too fresh in our minds > to discuss at this time. > > > > I think what Ray may have been getting at goes back > to the magic wand > theory. "My knife can cut anything, like on Kill > Bill." When I cut the > cord during the birth of my child, the doc gave me > scissors. I was tempted > to go for the Spyderco, but there's that whole > infection thing. What I > thought would be an easy clip was not at all. I > really had to get on it. > Clipping the air in practice wouldn't have taught me > how tough that tissue > was. I believe that's what the original thread was > about in the first > place. > > > > Dale > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Cutting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well, I guess it is time to move off the "cutting" topic. Seems that we're talking more about if we should talk about it rather than actually talking about it. So... time to move on. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:44:59 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No Aaron I don't speak for the Berg family either, but like it or not this has become a public event, made so by our enemies. And for the record if (God forbid) this were to happen to one of my family members I would want it viewed and discussed by as many people as possible. Know thy enemy and all. The thing that stuck me most about the video was the casualness with which it was done. Those people kill casually and without guilt. --- Aaron Alejandro wrote: > No, I do not speak for the Berg family -- maybe you > do? However, I have a > son and daughter. I don't believe if this happened > to my children, wife, > family member or even a friend that I would want, > nor appreciate, a martial > arts forum discussing the particulars of the methods > used to take my childs > head off while being videotaped! > > Maybe I'm in the minority, but don't believe so. > > Let's get back to talking about terminology, what > section of a region an art > hails from and what systems work best -- leave this > discussion for someone > else. I can think of many topics which could > provide good discussion on > this forum -- not the technique of beheading used on > an American held > hostage. > > This is a no brainer! Let's move on. > > Aaron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steven ledwith" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tragic Events in Iraq > > > > Discussing this topic is exactly what we should > do. > > I don't think it's disrectful to the Berg family > > either. Do you speak for the Berg family? > > --- Aaron Alejandro wrote: > > > Mr. Terry, > > > > > > Please accept my greatest respects for the forum > you > > > provide for martial > > > artist to discuss topics important to our > various > > > styles, traditions and > > > training concepts. You requested comments, so > here > > > are mine. While I enjoy > > > good discussion and politics, I would request > that > > > we do not engage a > > > discussion regarding the beheading of Mr. Berg. > > > Simply put, it was tragic. > > > To have a discussion as to whether the knife was > > > sharp or not, is absurd! We > > > lost an American life! Whether it was to a > firearm, > > > bladed weapon, on video > > > or not, the loss of life is a part of war, but > does > > > not have to be a part of a > > > martial arts forum. For what purpose other than > to > > > evaluate the method, > > > sharpness of weapon or death timetable? As > > > professional martial artists, we > > > should already know these things and take heed > to > > > the "reality" of the outcome > > > of practicing with such weapons. I simply > request > > > that we don't have the > > > discussion on the forum out of respect to Mr. > Berg's > > > family -- if for no other > > > reason. > > > > > > There is no such thing as an atrocity of > war....war > > > is an atrocity. Our > > > American soldiers are there doing a job and we > > > should support them whole > > > heartedly. I enjoyed the forum discussion about > the > > > soldiers that fought back > > > some Iraqi troops with bladed weapons! That's > good > > > discussion! Discussions > > > regarding the tragic events of Mr. Berg should > not > > > be a part of a forum I have > > > grown fond of reading. Let us rise above any > such > > > discussion. > > > > > > With Great Respect to the Berg Family and all of > our > > > soldiers serving this > > > country, > > > Aaron Alejandro > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > > Resource > > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > > > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:34:02 -0500 From: ulfhead@integrity.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tanto Blades (was Cutting) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks again Phil. Great data. - Tyrkon Lawson - Quoting Phil Elmore : > There are two types of tanto -- the proper Asian tanto, which retains its > curve and is a "draw cutting" blade, and the "Americanized tanto," which is > two angles meeting at point we'll call the secondary point on a knife. > > Americanized tantos are very easy to sharpen because they're just two > straight edges you can treat separately -- there's no curve to deal with. > The Americanized tanto is arguably stronger through the point than a more > traditional blade, but actually gives up some penetrating power for this > reinforcement if we're thinking in terms of depth of thrust into a soft > target. (Lynn Thompson popularized the tanto in the USA, if you ask me, and > as seen on his videos it's the best tool for stabbing car doors and car > hoods. I try to keep that in mind in case I'm expecting an attack by > Chevrolets.) The downside of having no belly is that you have no belly, > which degrades slashing performance somewhat. On the opposite side of > *that*, the secondary point sometimes helps "grab" the work when slashing > with that type of blade. > > If you ask me, though, choosing a tanto is simply a stylistic choice. I > don't believe there's anything a tanto does measurably better than any other > type of knife (though the secondary tip is often good for scoring). I like > the tanto blade a lot and went through a phase in which that's all I bought > for a time, or mostly so. > > If you like spear-point blades, the CRKT Carson M21 is the way to go. The > larger version is... well, larger, but the added weight to the blade means it > opens and closes more smoothly than the smaller version. Both are very > attractive swept spearpoints with deep bellies. > > www.themartialist.com > > > Thanks Phil. Great reviews. Another question on this topic. I have always > preferred the drop point or spear point. Is there an advantage to the "tanto" > style blade? > > > > -------------- > - Phil Elmore > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith To: eskrimadigest Subject: [Eskrima] Aaron,No hard feelings Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Aaron, no hard feelings on this subject either, we just have different opinions. I'm sure there are some who don't want to think about or talk about this subject right now but some of us do. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest