Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:01:49 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #202 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Western Fencing (Ollie Batts) 2. Instructors in Portland, MAINE ??????? (geezer883@juno.com) 3. Memorial Day (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Western fencing vs. FMA (dstroyjr) 5. Re: Western Fencing vs. FMA (Todd Ellner) 6. Fencing. (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 7. FENCING (gordon walker) 8. Re: Western fencing vs. FMA (Andrew Evans) 9. Re: ED11.201- Fencing instructors/clubs in L.A. area (Bart Hubbard) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:07:59 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Western Fencing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Modern-day Western Fencing is nothing like the earlier styles of sword-play (fighting with swords) and, in my opinion, offers little of much value to practitioners of FM-artists today. Even Sabre-play is limited in the modern way of practising it. There are many books available, including some reprints of old originals, that will give you some ideas of the methods in use in previous times: The Sword and the Centuries, by Alfred Hutton Old Sword-Play: Techniques of The Great Masters, by Alfred Hutton. Codex Wallerstein: A Medieval Fighting Book from the Fifteenth Century on the Longsword, Falchion, Dagger and Wrestling, by Grzegorz Zabinski, Bartlomiej Walczak. Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi: 15th Century Swordsmanship of Master Filippo Vadi Fillipo Vadi, Luca Porzio (Translator). Medieval Swordsmanship: Illustrated Methods & Techniques, by John Clements. Secrets of the Sword, by Baron Cesar de Bazancourt, Cesar Lecat Bazancourt, Baron Bawancourt. Arte of Defence: A Manual on the Use of the Rapier, by William Wilson. Sword Fighting: A Manual for Actors and Directors, by Keith Ducklin (Illustrator), John Waller. The above are just a random selection, given only to illustrate what is out there. The list is in no way meant to be a personal recommendation. Although I do own copies of some of those mentioned. Reply to Julian, who wrote: "Traditional western fencing was mentioned not too long ago. I believe one FMA-er (sorry, forget who) was prominent in Kali/Arnis/Escrima over in the states and also a very good fencer. I went to watch some yesterday, just to study body mechanics etc. "Obviously the body mechanics are quite different; linear footwork, very different stances and it seemed to be exclusively thrusting strikes. "I wouldn't mind doing a bit if I thought it was going to be beneficial, but being so keen on the FMAs, I wouldn't want to devote too much time as my Kali would suffer. They do six-week beginners' courses, an hour and a half a week or so. "My question is this: would this short period be enough to supplement my FMA? "Thanks in advance for the input "Peace and respect to all on the list" --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:50:27 -0400 From: geezer883@juno.com Subject: [Eskrima] Instructors in Portland, MAINE ??????? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net What a terrific list of instructors in the Portland Oregon area. How about instructors in the Portland Maine area? I will be relocating soon to Bridgton and am looking for instructors, and/or training partners in the Portland/Lake Region area. Thanks for the assist. Rob --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Memorial Day Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wishing all in the US a memoriable Memorial Day. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "dstroyjr" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Western fencing vs. FMA Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:27:24 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the City of Burbank, CA on Magnolia near the Burbank Media Mall, is a fencing school, called: Swordplay Fencing Studio 64 E Magnolia Blvd Burbank, CA 91502 (818) 566-1777 They have been there many years. > -----Original Message----- > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:49:59 -0500 > From: ulfhead@integrity.com > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Western fencing vs. FMA > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I was actually asking for Fencing instructors/clubs in L.A. area. I am > well > versed in Inosanto's system. Thanks. > > -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:15:04 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Western Fencing vs. FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I gave up fencing when I started FMA. Mostly because of time, partly because I was developing incompatible reflexes. But that was my cross-training problem, not any fault of either system. If you do take up fencing whether it's historic, classical or modern you'll develop some very useful attributes and learn a lot of very interesting things. A lot won't be directly applicable to FMA or modern self protection. If you have decent hitting, anything more than rudimentary grappling, and some solid weapons basics you are already ahead of the game for most of what a normal person will encounter. What the hell, some things are worth learning just because. What you will learn if you keep at it for a while is very valuable. Fencing requires extraordinary fine motor control under stress. That's something you don't learn a in lot of places. Fencers have an impressive command of distance, timing, rhythm and measure. A sword is a very different weapon than a stick. A long sword is very different than a short sword. Most of what you see in FMA is knives, sticks and some short swords. And the Filipino long weapons tend (in my meager experience) to be more cutting weapons than thrust or cut-and-thrust. The differences have to be experienced to be appreciated. You won't develop these attributes overnight. They are simple, but they are not easy. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:59:25 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fencing. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For the fencing-FMA connection,...you may look at Ray Floro. He is a Kali man and an Australian Fencer. His fighting methods reflect this from what I understand. Venezuelan Garrote Larense,..the South American Stick, Machete, and Knife art has many references to Spanish Fencing. Bruno Cruicchi, my instructor, is still trying to check all the leads relating to it's origin. Our footwork is done on a quadro, and is very different from the some of the other arts I've seen. Is it Spanish? Is it from the jungles of Venezuela? Is it from Filipino sailors? Is it from the Africans?? How does it relate to Portuguese, Canary Island, Zulu, and Barbados stickfighting?? My feelings are that all of these arts contributed to a degree, but mainly Native arts mixed with Spanish fencing. It makes for a very economical and violent art. Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:52:47 -0400 (EDT) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FENCING Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, One of our instructors, Ryan, taught fencing and his anecdotes usually revolved around how he could defeat the fencing attacks by using tight angles and circles on the attacks of his fellow fencing students. One thing I notice about Ryan, is he has a great perception of distance and his timing is excellent. When hes sparring and he can usually get you with that downward smash across the cage of the helmet when youre coming in. Whether theses attributes were developed by sparring in the fencing or the estokada is something I havent asked him yet. I beleive he has a background in other sword styles. He mentioned some rapier and dagger stuff too in some of our discussions. I believe this was done with his fencing instructor. Anyhow. Since I have no life anymore I must vicariously indulge the opinions of my friends! Sincerely, Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "Andrew Evans" Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Western fencing vs. FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Check out the U.S. Fencing Association’s website at http://www.usfencing.org for schools and clubs in your area. Also, many universities or colleges might have a local club. Call their physical education department. I've trained in fencing for many years before getting into the Filipino Martial Arts. It's good stuff but of course, I prefer FMA. Although you can learn something from fencing in a short time, you really need to spend a lot of time to appreciate the subtleties. I recommend starting off using the Foil with a French grip for the first year and then trying other grips. Eventually one can move on the other weapons. (Warning: The rigid and sometimes complicated rules will cause frustration especially since they change with each weapon.) Yes, a lot of fencing appears to be centerline-focused but a good lefty can get a right-hander on the back several times and I've seen some great flash Sabre drills that remind me of Sumbrada. For sparring with sticks, I have found Sabre techniques to be beneficial except I use the rules of Epee, i.e. "Screw right of way, I’ve got the touch." Thanks, Andrew Evans, former U.S. Fencing League member, current MARPPIO member www.TopekaKarate.com _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bart Hubbard" To: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:53:27 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: ED11.201- Fencing instructors/clubs in L.A. area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, "I was actually asking for Fencing instructors/clubs in L.A. area..." These guys are in Culver City not too far from the new Inosanto Academy in Marina Del Rey. They are pretty nice and the floor fees aren't bad. Also there are a LOT of people to work with. They call themselves Salle Gascon. Here is the info: Westside Fencing Center 8737 Washington Blvd. Culver City, CA, 90232 Phone: (310) 204-2688 Give it a shot. If it doesn't work out this link has a lot of fencing stuff in SoCal: http://www.fencing.net/clubs/california.html Be cool. Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares www.capitaldocepares.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest