Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #206 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Hawaiin Stickfights (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 2. Questions about manners - not really hypothetical (Marc Macyoung) 3. knife snatcher (Dale) 4. FMA in the Southwest? (Afern27@aol.com) 5. Re: manners (Kes41355@aol.com) 6. Re: FMA's in Charlotte, NC (Kes41355@aol.com) 7. Knife in lead hand. (ulfhead@integrity.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:01:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Hawaiin Stickfights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 5/31/04 10:58:47 AM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > > June 24th 25th is the Festival of Kings Tournament > here in Maui.  Pedoy Esrkrima is putting on a full > contact divsion and I was trying to find out if any > one from the digest plans on attending ?  > > Chad!----Dogzilla!--are you doing this???? --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:11:43 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Questions about manners - not really hypothetical Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Todd asked > What would your immediate reaction be if you were in a social situation and > someone grabbed (or tried to grab) the knife out of your pocket? Would it > make any difference if they handed it back to you with a big grin and an > exaggerated display of manners? No, it wouldn't make any difference. This is not only stupid, but it rude as well as obxious. I say this because back in the day that I carried a fixed blade on my back hip I slammed serveral people into walls and the ground when they did this. It was only my safety protocols (i.e. check for intent before you start breaking things) that kept me from killing and/or severly maiming them. Them suddenly facing someone about to rip their throat out with my teeth, quickly put a cabosh on their fun and games. They had discovered that their little prank was nearly along the lines of a redneck's last words "Hey everyone, watch this!" They never got a chance to fully pull it, much less hand it back. Bottomline, is that an attempt to control either your weapon or your weapon hand is a common tactic of a legitimate street attack (i.e. you jam his knife and then start pumping yours into him). Now knowing this, my "Thongor the Learning Impaired" (lizard brain, frog brain, puppy brain depending on which expert is calling it) considers an attempt to go for my weapon a "bad thing" and will react accordingly. I react especially badly because it is the initiating move of a professional (and therefore more than likely lethal) attack. Now you got some pendejo jerkoff who just so happens to think it is funny. In this context you can well imagine that he will never get to the point where he can with "an exaggerated display of manners" hand it back to me. Which brings us back to the ever so important issue of safety checks and controls. Basically stated, someone who is legitimately attacking you will have certain reactions when things begin to go sideways. These reactions are significantly different than someone who is not attacking you. Namely, someone who is really attacking you will attempt to keep on attacking you. He will in a sense, attempt to "climb over" or snake around your reactions and still attemt to get to you. In short, he will still keep coming. However, someone who is not attacking you will either make no move at all (i.e. "what the hell is happening?") Or he/she might make some kind of defensive move (e.g. curling up or putting hands up). Very seldom will the person make a trained block. Even rarer is an attempt to get away. All in all, if your reaction was fast, then most people don't have time to mentally shift gears from prankster mode (or in the case of the woman who accidentally brushed up against my knife, just walking past me mode). And you find that the move is working too easily if it is not a legitimate attack. Someone who is being picked up and thrown unexpectedly feels quite different than someone who's attack is running into resistence. This is why you need to have those safety checks in place. Yes, you've received the intitial stimulus, and have gone into defcon mode. However, you must check for intent and proof of attack before you "push the button." Otherwise, you're going to take someone out because they did something stupid. And just because someone did something stupid or obnoxious does not mean, in the eyes of the law, you are justified in tearing their throat out. Let me in passing mention that checking a lizard brain reaction is not a fun expeirence. You must literally step in front of the train of an adrenal response and derail it. You must stop yourself from finishing the move. Now if you only intellectually know these moves that is going to be easy. However, if it has soaked into your Thongor mind, this is no small task. Now the good news, it has been my experience that the solution also resides in the same area as the problem. Your Thongor mind, is much faster at recognizing intent than your neo-cortex. As such, if after the intitial stimilus, that part of you will be faster to recognize when the secondary stimilus is not present and therefore time to abort. If you cannot do this, well then congradulations kiddies, you've just created a homicidal monster within yourself that will basically be a loose cannon inside you for the rest of your life. Let me further stipulate that they often had negative reactions -- including screaming at me for scaring them (what do you think you did to me you idiot?). But it was the safety protocols that I had in place that not only saved their narrow little asses, but me from having to do a lot of paperwork.In the old days, when dealing with the aftermath of an attempted grab I came up with a counter/response to "I was just joking." And that was just "Yeah, that's like walking up and grabbing my dick and then saying that you were only joking." It tells them quite simply that it is an unacceptable, personal violation of space and unwanted contact with something that is rather important to you. Although it might seem that you are leaving yourself open to "what you trying to compensate for something by carrying a knife," when combined with the fact "that is the first move of a murder attempt" tends to get the message across that the jokester is the one who goofed. Not you for having a negative reactions Now because I do have experience with people doing this kind of dumb thing, let me also point out that I quit carrying a fixed blade in a particular position where it could be taken out. I shifted to the slower draw, but more effectively covered side hip carry. And from that position my hand was easily able to sweep aside any attempted grab at my blade. Then for years, I carried a knife in my pocked, sans clip, which prevented this issue entirely. Currently I carry a modified clip knife that unless you take it out a certain way, will remain closed, but my hand and body movement serve as a safety barrier against it being grabbed. In short, my reflexes are rigged to both block and move it out of the way in case of an attempted grab. What I am really leading up to here however, is something that all the tales of kung fuing some jerk who thought it would be funny to grab your knife will overlook. Bottomline is if you choose to carry a knife -- especially as a weapon of self-defense -- the ultimate responsibility is on you. You are the one who needs to do the work to keep it from being snagged in the manner that Todd described. Everytime you strap on a weapon, you are voluntarily putting yourself accountable to higher standards and codes of conduct. You now have the ability to take a human life and you must abide by these greater standards of accountability. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to wear a rig so it cannot be easily pulled by a prankster, yes, it is a lot of hard work to learn how to put checks into your reaction and yes, it is also a whole lot of work to regularly position yourself where someone cannot do this ... but that is the price you pay for choosing to pick up a weapon. >From early childhood I was told this mantra "Don't carry a weapon if you aren't willing to pull it. Don't pull a weapon if you aren't willing to use it. Don't use it if you aren't willing to kill with it. Don't kill with it unless you are willing to pay the price for it" Dealing with jokers, idiots and people who freak out knowing you are armed is part of the prices you must pay if you choose to carry. It is up to you to find effective ways and means to keep "mistakes" like this from happening. If you don't want to take the responsibility, if you don't want the extra work, if you aren't willing to accept the possible problems and the hassles that will come with a weapon .... don't carry. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dale" To: Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:42:01 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] knife snatcher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> Well... there's always the other knife in your left pocket. ; ) Reminds me of a story which is told around here about a local railroader. This particular engineer had a penchant for buggery and got in a fight one night on the road at a bar. He pulled his folder right away. The other guy followed suit. When the engineer saw the other guy's knife he said, "I don't need a knife to kick your A$$." Then the engineer threw his knife to the side and got in a boxing stance. The other guy again followed suit by throwing his knife. Then the engineer pulled his second blade and smiled. Conflict over, no blows or cuts. See you in the sticks, Dale --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Afern27@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:37:58 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in the Southwest? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just wondering if anybody knows of any FMA teachers in the El Paso, Texas/Las Cruces, NM area? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:56:06 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: manners Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Well, my response would be, "Keep the knife out of sight." With the proliferation of jerks out there, why invite the inevitable stupid response by openly displaying a knife? I carry a blade 9 times out of 10 when I'm away from home, sometimes 2, but they are well tucked away out of sight, but readily available should the need arise. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 5/30/04 10:19:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > This is one of those questions that it feels strange to even ask because it > is so far over the line. But it should be amusing to hear what people have > to say. > > What would your immediate reaction be if you were in a social situation and > someone grabbed (or tried to grab) the knife out of your pocket? Would it > make any difference if they handed it back to you with a big grin and an > exaggerated display of manners? How about if it was at a martial arts school > where you were a guest or observer? > > Change it around a little. What would you do if one of your students did > this? > > No, it hasn't happened to me. But a good friend reports that one of the BB > at her school does it all the time. She seemed a little non-plussed at my > response which was along the lines of "Hasn't anyone slugged this idiot yet?" --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:04:45 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: FMA's in Charlotte, NC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I only know this of man from video, but when I saw one of Bobby Taboada's instructional videos, he absolutely knocked my socks off. Several people whom I respect very highly know Mr. Taboada personally, and they hold him in high regard, both as a martial artist, and as a true gentleman. A good friend of mine told me that Mr. Taboada's videos do not do him justice, so I would recommend checking him out. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 5/31/04 11:19:40 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Please let me know of any FMA schools in Charlotte N.C > Cordially, > Grey Wolf --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:43:40 -0500 From: ulfhead@integrity.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Knife in lead hand. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just read a short book on how to shiv someone "prison style". The author claims to be an ex-con (or current con, not sure) and to have also done his share of kniffing people. I don't question this as it is not an issue w/ me. A lot of what he talks about I agree with. However, he claims that leading with the knife is the wrong way to do it and that an experienced kniffer always has his knife in the rear hand and NEVER in the lead hand. I have always trained to be comfortable with having the knife in either hand, in various grips, in both leads, no lead, etc... just as is focused on in much of FMA. What do the rest of you think about this? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest