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From eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Thu Jun 3 13:00:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from rimmon.cisto.com (rimmon.cisto.com [69.10.135.37]) by behemoth2.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i53I07t13433 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:00:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 4765 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2004 17:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rimmon.cisto.com) (127.0.0.1) by 0 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2004 17:20:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:19:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20040603171903.4061.83738.Mailman@rimmon.cisto.com> From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #211 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. acceptance of "exotic martial arts" (excalibur921@ctnet.net) 2. Re: RE: manners (Felipe Jocano) 3. Why the Spaniards Conquered the Philippines (Leo Salinel) 4. Re: lead hand or not (TenDigitTouch) 5. Pentecost 3 (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 6. Re: acceptance of "exotic martial arts" (Mike Casto) 7. Re: RE: manners (Ray Terry) 8. Divide & Conquer (Ollie Batts) 9. Re: acceptance of "exotic martial arts" (Jared Dame) 10. rudness, Don Pentacost and a lot of other things (Marc Macyoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:29:01 -0500 From: excalibur921@ctnet.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] acceptance of "exotic martial arts" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hello all, recently, i had a confrontation with more traditional stylists. one, an individual who has dedicated much of his life to shitoryu and is a very accomplished tournament fighter as well as trainer/manager of several successful kickboxers- another instructor is an individual with similar qualifications and portfolio, but he is a tracys' kempo stylist; i myself up till 1989 was also a traditional stylist in tae kwon do/hapkido. the gentlemen had never questioned in the past my qualifications as an instructor in tkd, for as many years, however, since i have all but abandoned my tournament practice and dedicated myself to serrada escrima and mixed martial arts, they no longer wish to recognize me or my certifications in the ecclectic arts. further they submit since we do not produce a belt system as the traditional systems do, there is no way to justify rank or qualification. unfortunately, for both of them the proof was in the "short" sparring activity that took place. quickly my points were made clear. still they reject our system as being a true martial art. suggestions??? respects, guro mike --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 02:52:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: manners To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, silatworld@yahoo.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Interesting discussion we have on manners and carrying knives....Just wanted to share something: Since the scenario was about having a knife snatched out of the pants pocket, one of my friends once told us that when he had to carry a knife (a folder), he tucked it into the waistband of his underpants, thus concealing it with his jeans on top. But, he tucked it in front. The reasoning was that if you were searched as part of a security procedure, the security officer was less likely to pass his hands over your front, especially near the groin. Most people would tuck their knives at their sides or at the back. Of course, the folder in question had to be of a size to fit in the front without giving away its presence and without creating an accident :-). Seems that it would make a snatching incident like the one described less likely... Anyway.... Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 03:10:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Why the Spaniards Conquered the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Professor Bot Jocano can bear me out on this. The Spaniards didn't conquer the Filipinos using superior technology. Rather, they did it using "divide and conquer" strategies, sort of like using one tribe of Native Americans (e.g., the Apache) against another tribe (e.g., the Cherokee). That's what happened. Report after report and annal after annal in Spanish documentations of the conquest show that the Spaniards relied heavily on hundreds and hundreds of native warriors from one region to conquer another. For instance, the city of Maynila (Manila) fell into Spanish hands in 1571 no thanks to the participation of Cebuano and other Visayan warriors brought in by Miguel Lopez de Legaspi. The Bicol region, on the other hand, from which my ancestry comes, was conquered likewise by Tagalog soldiers doing the fighting for only a handful of Spanish officers. The northern provinces of Ilocos and Pangasinan were conquered with Tagalog and Visayan soldiers under Spanish command. Each invading mission had around 300-400 Filipino soldiers with no more than 20-30 Spanish officers. Thus, we can say that whatever fighting weapon arts my ancestors had at the time, was not defeated by Spanish steel, but by the duplicity and lack of solidarity of my own ancestors, in that they were easily duped into fighting themselves. Of course, to them it wasn't a case of being duped, since they were fighting amongst themselves ever since--for slaves, for gold, for the sheer pride of conquest. True, European swordfighting techniques entered the FMA. That cannot be denied. If you view Tagalog as well as other Luzon-based FMA styles, you will notice the "L" shaped footwork which is more probably an influence of Spanish swordfighting. Note also, the wide open positioning of the espada and the daga vis-a-vis the usually in tight weapon ready position of most Visayan eskrima styles. (Recall how the late GM Leo Giron's live hand would be positioned in what resembles a modern day fencer's live hand position.) ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 05:12:12 -0700 (PDT) From: TenDigitTouch To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: lead hand or not Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi. The issues of using the "live" hand to create an opening are sophisticated and very intersting, especially in DEFENSE tactics and I would appreciate more information the subject. Thanks. I have seen this ( weapon leading)discussion some here before, and a while back I thought, "ok." So, I stood up and put out my right hand. I had my right foot forward. Now if I had a weapon in my right hand, it would be in the lead hand. Good. Now step back with your right foot. Or, zone forward with your left leg. Is your right hand still leading? I mean, the point is, doesn't this change constantly as you move. Unless you only shuffle thus always keeping your dominant or weapon leg and hand forward, so your weapon always leads. Does anyone really do that? Respectfully, Ray Purdy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:29:59 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pentecost 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/3/04 5:40:32 AM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > My next question would be, "Does Don have anthing else in print or in the > works > regarding anything of the combative nature?" or "Are there similar works out > there from guys like him?" If he does I definately want to add it to my > library. Thanks again for the clear data and input. > > - Tyrkon - > > Year ago I had a brochure from him about training in the Filipines. It was rather vivid. He had some training videos too, believe it or not. Boxing, low kicks, sticks, blades, etc. I lost this brochure some time ago. This was the '80's. Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] acceptance of "exotic martial arts" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:09:48 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This may sound brusque - but why do you care what they think in the first place? Why do you care if they "recognize" you or not? Personally, I would just do my thing and let them do theirs and not worry about it one way or the other. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 12:29 AM Subject: [Eskrima] acceptance of "exotic martial arts" > hello all, > recently, i had a confrontation with more traditional > stylists. one, an individual who has dedicated much of > his life to shitoryu and is a very accomplished tournament > fighter as well as trainer/manager of several successful > kickboxers- another instructor is an individual with > similar qualifications and portfolio, but he is a tracys' > kempo stylist; i myself up till 1989 was also a traditional > stylist in tae kwon do/hapkido. > the gentlemen had never questioned in the past my qualifications > as an instructor in tkd, for as many years, however, since > i have all but abandoned my tournament practice and > dedicated myself to serrada escrima and mixed martial arts, > they no longer wish to recognize me or my certifications in > the ecclectic arts. further they submit since we do not > produce a belt system as the traditional systems do, there > is no way to justify rank or qualification. > unfortunately, for both of them the proof was in the "short" > sparring activity that took place. quickly my points > were made clear. > still they reject our system as being a true martial art. > > suggestions??? > > respects, > > guro mike > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: manners To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 08:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Since the scenario was about having a knife snatched > out of the pants pocket, one of my friends once told > us that when he had to carry a knife (a folder), he > tucked it into the waistband of his underpants, thus > concealing it with his jeans on top. But, he tucked it > in front. The reasoning was that if you were searched > as part of a security procedure, the security officer > was less likely to pass his hands over your front, > especially near the groin. That front carry is termed the appendix carry and is what I use for my primary blade. For better or worse, that carry position also tends to more easily get through your standard doorway type metal detector. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:23:49 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Divide & Conquer Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In response to the most recent post by Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet: I totally understand what you are saying. 'Divide and conquer', and 'conquer in stages', are two well-established and well-proven methods. In the case of the Spanish conquering the Philippines, they only had to take one island at a time, get some of those people to fight with them against a common enemy (i.e. people on the other islands), and hey presto, job done! I fully understand that. The Spanish did exactly the same with the Aztecs, and I am sure that I could provide you with many other similar examples, if you want? I'm sorry to disappoint you but, the Philippines neither had a monopoly on tribal systems, or on how best to use a sword, or any other fighting weapon. Take my own country, Britain, for example: Did you know that we in Britain also had many different tribes of people originally? (A lot of people might argue that we still do, by the way!) In second-century Britain, these included: Caledonian, Dumnonii, Votadini, Selgovae and Novantae tribes, north of Hadrian's Wall; Brigantes, Carvetii, Lopocares, Textoverdi, Gabrantovices, Setantii and Parisi south of the Wall. In the middle of the country we had: Coritani, Catuvellauni and Dobunni. In the West we had: Deceangli, Cornovii, Ordovices, Demetae and Silures. In the East we had: Iceni and Trinovantes. In the South-East we had: Cantiaci. In the South we had: Atrebates, Belgae, Regini and Durotriges, and in the South-West corner of the island we had some more Dumnonii. That's more than two dozen different tribes. Not bad for one relatively small island, roughly 250 miles across and 500 miles long (less than 100,000 square miles in total). Over the centuries we (Britain) have also been invaded, conquered and settled in. (That still goes on of course, but not quite in the same way!) If we go back a couple of thousand years, say, we first hosted the Romans. These were followed by the Anglo-Saxons, the Danes (Vikings) and finally the Normans (in 1066). Later, we had more than one-hundred years of war and conflict between us and the French, from 1338-1453. Two years after the end of the Hundred Years' War with France we had a thirty-year Civil War, from 1455-85. We saw off the Spanish attempt to invade and conquer us in 1588. We had another Civil War from 1642-52, and finally lost the American colonies, in 1781, after six years of war conducted many thousands of miles from our own shores. Mind you, that didn't stop us going back and burning down Washington in around 1814. That's why the White House is white by the way. It was painted to hide the scars of being burnt. Therefore, please DO NOT attempt to patronise me, or try to tell me that the British have not had a long history and knowledge of actual conflict, warfare and fighting. Do you honestly believe that the above invaders, or my own ancestors, didn't get to use, and therefore gain an understanding in the effective use, of all manner of fighting weapons during that time? I don't mean this to offend you in any way but, is your knowledge and understanding of the rest of the world really that limited? Pugil --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Jared Dame Subject: Re: [Eskrima] acceptance of "exotic martial arts" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:11:33 -0700 To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Do things the old Kempo way then, have a challenge match and when you win using your FMA walk over and take their black belt (or whatever color they are using these days). This was what they used to do in the days when I first started my martial arts practice (before finding FMA/JKD), if someone in the group tested and made black belt and someone in the group did not think they deserved the rank a challenge was made and the two sparred. Most of the time in Nimpo/Kempo a black belt was able to defend himself against almost anyone, but the primary point of the fight was to prove that you had what it took to where the rank. If they don't like this idea then forget them, because I would challenge anyone that studies the FMA disciples under a good Guro/Sifu would see the benefit and beauty of our martial art. ciao, Jared Dame > hello all, > recently, i had a confrontation with more traditional > stylists. one, an individual who has dedicated much of > his life to shitoryu and is a very accomplished tournament > fighter as well as trainer/manager of several successful > kickboxers- another instructor is an individual with > similar qualifications and portfolio, but he is a tracys' > kempo stylist; i myself up till 1989 was also a traditional > stylist in tae kwon do/hapkido. > the gentlemen had never questioned in the past my qualifications > as an instructor in tkd, for as many years, however, since > i have all but abandoned my tournament practice and > dedicated myself to serrada escrima and mixed martial arts, > they no longer wish to recognize me or my certifications in > the ecclectic arts. further they submit since we do not > produce a belt system as the traditional systems do, there > is no way to justify rank or qualification. > unfortunately, for both of them the proof was in the "short" > sparring activity that took place. quickly my points > were made clear. > still they reject our system as being a true martial art. > > suggestions??? > > respects, > > guro mike > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:22:04 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] rudness, Don Pentacost and a lot of other things Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Oh boy, this is a long one > There at the seminar on the sidelines was someone with a very strong and > distinct aura. We got to chatting and it was Don P. Those of you who have > read his booklet know that he doesn't think much of martial arts and I was > curious what he thought of what Peyton was doing (PQ, author of "Bouncer's > Guide to Barroom Brawling" which is a witty read full of practical thoughts, > is widely known as one of the pioneers of "model mugging" type training) > He thought for a moment as he observed the training while choosing his words > and then had a lightbulb come on over his head. "I get it," he said, "he's > trying to help the victims." > Crafty Dog That sounds like Don. >:D And Don and Peyton together? Interesting doesn't even begin to come close to describing it Critical mass on four legs comes to mind. :D > She said that the person who tried that on her would probably catch an > elbow in the throat and find themselves with their head in a wall before > they would know what was happening. >> Then she would tell them: "That was very rude" (her words). > I laughed for 10 minutes straight, but that's her way. > Rob Mulligan / kwikstik.com The problem I have with this is the number of times that when I have started dribbling people for going after my weapon is how -- after I have checked my instinct to break them in half -- they turn into screaming banshees because I scared them. "Gosh, golly gee, I didn't mean anything, it was just a little joke and you turned into a complete werewolf yadayadayada" All of a sudden the joker becomes the victim and YOU are the one who over reacted. And unfortunately, you ARE the one who physically reacted. This result put me in contact with management a few times when these kinds of incidents occurred at work and asked not to frequent an establishment when it happened at a coffee house ... all in all, it never ever ended with me casually returning to my drink leaving a body on the floor for their rudeness. Someone else mentioned that quit frankly a whole lot of people tend to get nervous at the idea that you are armed in their presence. And yes, there is a certain type of putz, who really, really hates the idea that because you are armed that he cannot say or do whatever he wants. It's a weird combo although he's socially acceptable, there's just a streak in the guy that has to come out ahead and get one in. I've encountered this sort countless times, and he is the one who is going to have to "count coup" on you. And this is one of the biggest sources of someone deciding to jokingly grab your knife. Make no mistake, in his mind, if he can get the knife from you, it's a victory over you and by extenion proof that your weapon doesn't mean anything. But if you slam this kind of obnoxious schmuck, he's going to use the incident as proof that you are a maddog and either get you expelled or disarmed. You throw an elbow into someone's throat and guess who is going to get arrested for aggravated assault ... because hey, it was only a joke. That's if you don't crush the guy's throat. This is why I am such a strong advocate of having that "check" ingrained into your responses. In areas/lifestyles/circumstances where it is a legimate attack, you can't stop. If your attacker isn't on the deck dying in under three seconds, then you will be. Under other contions, that reaction is a total mistake. As such, your best option is to keep your weapon in a manner that these kind of "mistakes" WON'T happen. And yes, that often means you lose speed in fast draw. Gosh, golly gee, that might make it harder for drawing your weapon if you are attacked by 27 ninjas in a dark alley, but it does wonders from keeping you from accidentally tearing out the throat of an office joker. On the other hand, in some ways, it is also faster. For years I carried an Explorer Stubby in my pocket and nobody knew I was armed. During the "interview" I'd casually put both hands in my pocket and stand there with a big ol' stupid grin on my face looking like the total, nonthreatening hick. What numbnuts never realized is that when my hands did come out, I was not only armed but ready, with just a flick of my thumb to slit his throat. But nobody knew I was armed, because the closed knife was easily palmed and still concealed. He saw my hand right there.. what the schmuck didn't know is that many years earlier I had killed a six pack with a sleight of hand magician. Sure you see my hand, but you'd better count the fingers, because them's what's holding the blade out of sight. Yeah, it was a little bit slower in lead up time, but with just a little bit of acting, when it came time for him to reach for his weapon, I was already striking. So bottomline folks, if you are going to carry a knife you better expect people to be stupid and take some steps to prevent it -- especially iif you carry it in a way that you can do a Quickdraw McGraw act. In this case, you are just inviting trouble, either because you are hanging out with people who know better (and by extension tend to lead more "interesting" lives) or because some numbnuts bobo is going to "jokingly" try to count coup on you. Either hide it entirely, or carry it in a way that you can easily slap a grab away. Then be ready to do some calm and effective communication why grabbing the knife is a bozo no no. Then Tykron said > My instructor, Blaise Loong, showed me a system based on, for lack of a better > title, "shiving someone prison style". Anybody ever read Bob Orlando's Martial Arts America? He has an interesting theory on the "Evolution/de-evoluntion of martial arts. If you take a look at his four part model: fighting methods to fighting systems to martial arts to martial sports/ways, you can rock back on your heels and say "Hey wait a minute!" when someone tries to tell you about so-called fighting systems from prisons, historical sources or heroic figures in history (like James Bowie). What I will be the first to admit is that criminals have all kinds of fighting methods (moves/approaches/etc). Shit, I've even seen them practicing certain moves. These are a loose collection of -- for the lack of a better word -- techniques that these guys tend to use. But, quite frankly, if these moves fail, they are often at a loss. All in all, these are kind of like the "dirty tricks" that were passed on from father to son in my youth. It is important to realize that these moves have no coherency, organization or any other elements other than dropping someone before he does you. This is followed by a fighting system. This occurs when someone gathers various closely related fighting methods and organizes them in a coherent whole to be passed on. This is usually done during time of war. The works of Fairbairn/Sikes and Applegate are prime examples of this. Again, these have no other purpose other than to make sure that you are left standing and your opponent isn't -- especially when your opponent is attempting to do the same to you. These tactics tend to be rather simple in nature and easily/quickly taught to some kid from Podunkee Iowa before you send him out to kill enemy soldiers. Their total lack of other issues (including moral/ethical application) is what limits them to simple killing systems instead of martial arts. We can also take a look at "schools of fence" as an example of the transition from fighting method to fighting system. It is here that I'd like to point out that what Don is talking about is a fighting method, not a fighting system. And while I have seen criminals working on fighting methods, I have never seen or encountered an organized fighting system among convicts. And remember, aside from my dim background, I also ran a correctional center. So while I don't claim to know everything, I tend to question claims of prison fighting systems. Fighting methods yes, fighting system no. I base this statement on the factured, territorial and warring nature of criminals, I have never encountered a "Crip" or "Aryan Brotherhood" fighting system, whereas I have encountered them sharing piecemeal fighting methods. With this in mind, we also have to wonder about "systems" supposedly based on historical precident/figures. I mean, did Jim Bowie really have a fighting system or was he just a bad mo'fo with some really good methods? And if it was organized into a system, where is the historical documentation? If it wasn't, then what is up with people claiming to be teaching his system? You show me proof that he even HAD a system, much less developed one, THEN I'll start buying that what is being sold is how he used a blade. Until then, as far as I'm concerned it's a marketing ploy. (now this doesn't mean it doesn't work or isn't effective, that's an entirely different issue, but let's just say martial arts are martial arts and salesmanship is salesmanship). It is at this point in the Bob Orlando's process when you begin to include other issues like a warrior code, ethics, traditions and social relations. In other words, you have reached the point of "martial arts." The physical aspects work hand in glove with other factors. This gives rise to issues such as chivarly, bushido and adat/ hormat. You still have the core fighting system (which works) but you have other factors which both temper and control its application. It is very important to consider the fact that in this defintion of martial arts, "you must plan for success." In otherwords, the physical aspects are still effective enough that you will have the aftermath of their use (e.g. your opponent laying on the ground gasping his last) and that is why you need these other aspects. In war, you don't need to deal with the long term repercussions, in everyday life you do. And this is where the long term elements like self-control, self-discipline, tradition, and codes of conduct are important aspects of martial arts training. Simply stated, you don't want to let loose onto society a potential sociopath who is only skilled in fighting methods and/or a fighting system. Then things move into the "decay" phase of the cycle, which is martial ways/sports. Although the term decay might offend some, Bob's standpoint is from that of effective physical application in a combat situation. In short, while these approaches might personally benefit the individual in matters of personal/spiritual growth or collecting trophies/titles what is being done physically is no longer the most effective means to send someone into the void. I mean hey, iado is wonderful, but an M-16 is far more effective. In this phase the purpose of studying these systems has signficantly shifted from just physical survival to many other aspects. (and in case anybody is getting grumpy, let me point out that quite frankly, these other aspects are far more effective for day to day existence than the ability to snap someone's neck in three seconds ... which face it. If you are in the kind of place where that is a skill you regularly need, you're in the wrong place). I recently went to a Ralf Krause tournament here in Colorado, and while I saw some awesome displays of martial sports I didn't see too many displays of effective fighting systems. What was interesting however, is how often the guy who took the trophy, was in fact, using a fighting method (i.e. charge in off the mark and hit him first), which is interesting because it really does kind of demontrate Bob O's idea of a cycle. And looking at this cycle also helps us understand that even if we focus on a particular aspect, we have to acknowledge (and in some cases learn to cope with) these other aspects. The reason that my demonstration of the "prison yard rush" works so often is that quite often people have been so busy focusing on the other aspects that they lose sight of the fact that the phsyical aspect of what they are doing has to work against ALL phases of the cycle. > Plus I live in L.A. county and work in > East Los Angeles as a school teacher so there are plenty of times I find my > self in tight quarters where, if needed, Don's system (I don't know what else > to call it) would be invaluable. method, method, method... as for how to handle it see below. > My next question would be, "Does Don have anthing else in print or in the works > regarding anything of the combative nature?" Not to the best of my knowledge, Paladin turned his magus opus down on why what is being taught as MA doesn't work against people like him. Which is too bad, because although Don is not a great writer (which is the reason Paladin claims they declined it) he knows what he is talking about. > "Way back in the day (mid-'70's) I fell into the "Dukes of Hazzard" mode and > carried a Buck folding hunter in a sheath on my belt. This lasted for about > one week, since I always got some sort of comment on my motives for wearing > a > knife that size in public, with a lot of people who felt the need to tug on > the > knife on my belt (rude as hell). I realized I was inviting the attention by > openly displaying the knife, and have carried my knife concealed to this > day" > Michael Koblic Okay it was Micheal who said it about carrying concealed being smarter. > I have had an opportunity recently to view tapes by Jim Grover (aka Kelly > McCann) on the topic of pistol combatives. Kelly's stuff is pretty damned solid. So is Jerry Van Cooks. Lots of useful stuff to be had there. Then Micheal K again said > I have tried to work out how to defend against such an attack and must admit > that I am stumped. A quick search of the 10 or so publications by Marc in my > possession left me none the wiser:-) I see that Tony Blauer advocates his > Wedge even against a knife attack but I wonder... Okay, thin ice time here. From a professional standpoint, let me say that Tony Blauer's stuff is based on some solid, effective principles. In short, it works as a fighting method, not because he is such a super genius for having developed it, but because it is by and large based on legitimate, well known principles and physics. I can show you countless examples from various arts/systems that use it. Thing is, I quite frankly prefer how many of these others use it because it is more flexible and useful for both "phase two" and when Mr. Murphy shows up. For the record, it was Bob Orlando who called it the hacksaw. I call it the Wedge, Tony Blauer calls it the Spear, there's another guy out there whose name escapes me at the moment who calls it something else. Steve Plinck calls it djuru one (or as a joke "rudimentary silat" when he puts his hands up in a protective wedge and charges forward). Wing Chun by in large operates along the same general principle but arrives at it from a totally different approach (instead of creating a structural triangle, they move on it). Take a look at the male and female triangle footwork pattern from FMA and things will start to percolate in your head about the use of angles and triangles to apply force in different directions than what the human body is designed to handle. Having said that, what I can tell you works best is to take this idea of anglulation (and movement, don't forget movement), mix it in with some structure that won't collapse when pressed hard and do some experienmenting. I could show you in a weekend seminar, but I am assuming that we'll not meet, so take what you know already and start tinkering with putting up a wedge and getting out of Dodge instead of standing there and trying to "fight" such an attack. Surviving against a knife fighting method, tends to be more the realm of a fighting system instead of a martial way/sport. Marc Animal MacYoung --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest