Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:12:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #214 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Knife in lead hand PT2. Super long winded, sorry (Phil Hurcum) 2. GatPuno Baet and Luzon styles of FMA (Leo Salinel) 3. Re: RE: manners (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: RE: manners (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: Why the Spaniards Conquered the Philippines (Felipe Jocano) 6. 2nd FMA-Festival videos/DVDs (ABANICO) 7. Re: Krabi krabong? (Richard Killlick) 8. Spanish Blade Culture (Afern27@aol.com) 9. Re: Spanish Blade Culture (Ray Terry) 10. Missing The Point (Bobby Indas) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Knife in lead hand PT2. Super long winded, sorry Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This has since been addressed to some degree. I wrote this the other day and have not seen some of the points made however. Often when you watch boxing matches, baseball or golf the commentators always make a point of stressing the southpaw players. Siniwali. Look at the power this gives you. Watch a boxer take a heavy blow that causes him to stumble. Many times you will see him "reset." He will go back to his preferred lead. Next time you are walking, really think about how you place your legs. Watch little children climbing stairs. They generally step with the same leg everytime and push with the other. In the same manner that you are right or left handed, you are footed, as it is. Try mixing it up. Siniwali and concious thought will overcome this and add to your fighting ability. One of the strengths of Top Dog, I noticed watching the tapes is he doesn't worry about a lead when he's in motion. He fights. Check out the tape where he runs through and over, I think it is over Marc Balluf. He charges through and steps on the guy. Still swinging. No lead, no thought, just action. He is constantly striking without a "lead." The weight of the stick and the swing carry through the movement which propels the body forward. This should not be hindered by thought. Natural movement at it's finest. Running into someone at full speed uses body weight and the impact of the weapon together. Siniwali with a single stick. The lead is non existent. I can display and example of this. Vitor Belfort, I forget who he fought, but he entered succesfully and missed with the cross, but it was successful enough to worry his opponent who took a stagger backward. Vitor followed this up by straight punching. Like a one handed bench press left right left right as he ran forwards to his opponent striking continuosly. This demonstrates a crude but nonetheless effective Siniwali. These same theories can be pushed across to all FMA tools/weapons. The knife is no exception. Lead hand no lead hand? Non point. Teach and train both. Tape your fights and look for results. In any case after all the wind written above the simplest poiint is this; IF YOUR ENEMY DOES'NT EXPECT IT , DO IT FIRST. DO IT HARDER AND MAKE DAMN SURE YOU ARE DOING IT LAST!! ;P Great forum lately, really enjoying it. <<>> Go Monty Python on them and refuse to recognize their Arts unless they can produce papers from the Ministry of Martial Arts and Funny Walks. Or have a dance off, break it down now. It doesn't matter what you do, they're dorks. Phil ===== Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" www.arkangelmartialarts.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] GatPuno Baet and Luzon styles of FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GatPuno Baet, Thank you sir for that comment. I have seen the L shaped footwork in other Luzon-based styles, mostly from the Tagalog area, although from looking at pictures of Ilocano kabaroan and kadaanan as well as at Giron arnis escrima, I see that almost all Luzon styles do have that L footwork instead of the triangular footwork of Visayan styles. To Mr. Harris: Sure, there was no nation called "Philippines" before the Spaniards came, but the Filipino people have always existed AND have always had their own fighting techniques before the Spaniards came. You can see this more closely in the Visayan FMA, where apparently the influence of European swordfighting is less pervasive. I noticed that some pictures and footages I saw of Visayan arnisadors have them doing what looks like silat footwork (Recall the picture of GM Sonny Umpad in a low tight stance with a reverse knife grip; recall that picture of the late GGM Braulio Pedoy in a similarly low tight stance with his bolo sword on the Derobio website). I might look like I'm nitpicking here or hairsplitting, but I feel that we ought to guard against the tendency to marginalize the notion of a PRE-EXISTING bedrock of FMA techniques before the Spaniards came in, which of course had to evolve with the conquest in 1565-1898. Sort of like ancient Korean techniques evolving into the now modern arts of hapkido, tang soo do, taekwondo, hwarangdo, etc. due to their exposure to Japanese influences from the 19th to the 20th century. I'm sure we would disagree that Korean MA was essentially copied from Japanese MA. Influences to a high degree, yes, but in essence it is still Korean because you can always still see the unique Korean flavor in the techniques (especially in the high and complicated kicks, which show the ancient Korean techniques called Taekyon). ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:24:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: manners To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Ohohohoho, very interesting...... Bot > That front carry is termed the appendix carry and is > what > I use for my primary blade. For better or worse, > that carry > position also tends to more easily get through your > standard > doorway type metal detector. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: manners To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Was just thinking...and if your knife got snatched from that carry position, oh boy....:-) Bot > That front carry is termed the appendix carry and is > what > I use for my primary blade. For better or worse, > that carry > position also tends to more easily get through your > standard > doorway type metal detector. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:41:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Why the Spaniards Conquered the Philippines To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Leo's got a point. You have a small group of Spaniards setting out to conquer an archipelago. Proxies come in very useful in that scenario. Plus of course, they had guns and the tactics for using them. Personal combat is useful, but the guns and the tactics make a difference. Bot --- Leo Salinel wrote: > Professor Bot Jocano can bear me out on this. > > The Spaniards didn't conquer the Filipinos using > superior technology. Rather, they did it using > "divide > and conquer" strategies, sort of like using one > tribe > of Native Americans (e.g., the Apache) against > another > tribe (e.g., the Cherokee). That's what happened. > Report after report and annal after annal in Spanish > documentations of the conquest show that the > Spaniards > relied heavily on hundreds and hundreds of native > warriors from one region to conquer another. For > instance, the city of Maynila (Manila) fell into > Spanish hands in 1571 no thanks to the participation > of Cebuano and other Visayan warriors brought in by > Miguel Lopez de Legaspi. The Bicol region, on the > other hand, from which my ancestry comes, was > conquered likewise by Tagalog soldiers doing the > fighting for only a handful of Spanish officers. The > northern provinces of Ilocos and Pangasinan were > conquered with Tagalog and Visayan soldiers under > Spanish command. Each invading mission had around > 300-400 Filipino soldiers with no more than 20-30 > Spanish officers. > > Thus, we can say that whatever fighting weapon arts > my > ancestors had at the time, was not defeated by > Spanish > steel, but by the duplicity and lack of solidarity > of > my own ancestors, in that they were easily duped > into > fighting themselves. Of course, to them it wasn't a > case of being duped, since they were fighting > amongst > themselves ever since--for slaves, for gold, for the > sheer pride of conquest. > > True, European swordfighting techniques entered the > FMA. That cannot be denied. If you view Tagalog as > well as other Luzon-based FMA styles, you will > notice > the "L" shaped footwork which is more probably an > influence of Spanish swordfighting. Note also, the > wide open positioning of the espada and the daga > vis-a-vis the usually in tight weapon ready position > of most Visayan eskrima styles. (Recall how the late > GM Leo Giron's live hand would be positioned in what > resembles a modern day fencer's live hand position.) > > > > ===== > Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! > http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:19:56 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (ABANICO) Organization: ABANICO GmbH & Co KG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 2nd FMA-Festival videos/DVDs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello everybody, finally, after a lot of work, solved problems during the production and after using 130 GB harddisk space, both videos/DVDs of the 2nd FMA-Festival, The Gala and The Seminar, are finally completed and ready for sale. The 2nd FMA-Festval was with over 600 participants the largest FMA-seminar ever held worldwide. Over 20 FMA systems are presented on the videos/DVDs. They are an excellent tool for the propagation of the FMA. So if you were not able to attend, this is an excellent way to get an impression of the festival. In the "gala" video/DVD, all exhibitions presentet that night can be seen completly. On the "seminar" video/DVD, all 18 instructors of the festival are presented for about 5 minutes each. For 77 hours FMA were taught during this weekend, each instructor can only be presented this way. The content is as follows: "The Gala": 0:00:00 Trailer 0:03:10 Welcome 0:05:00 Welcoming message of the philippine Vice-Consul Thomas Auxilian 0:07:50 Messages from the Philippines 0:11:50 Filipino dance group Silayan 0:14:30 Eskrima Pangamut 0:18:42 Modern Arnis 0:27:40 NECOPA 0:35:40 Lontayao Kali 0:40:00 Dog Brothers Martial Arts 0:42:40 Ancestral Filipino Fighting Arts 0:46:55 Lapunti Arnis de Abanico 0:51:20 Kali / Sikaran 0:54:35 Roland Dantes 1:06:15 Felices Kaliradman 1:11:30 Inayan System of Eskrima 1:16:00 Balintawak Arnis 1:21:50 Tribute to the Masters 1:25:10 Final 1:34:00 End "The seminar": 0:00:00 Trailer 0:02:30 Welcome 0:06:20 The training 0:06:30 Guro Visayo Balinado - Eskrima Pangamut 0:10:20 Guro Bob Breen Breen - Inosanto Kali 0:16:50 Senior Master Roland Dantes - Movie Stunt Coordination 0:19:35 Guro Marc Denny - Dog Brothers Martial Arts 0:26:30 Guro Bob Dubljanin - Pencak Silat - Escrima 0:32:30 Master Samuel Dulay - Modern Arnis 0:36:30 Masirib Guro Jeff Espinous - Kali/Sikaran 0:42:00 Punong-Guro Julio Felices - Felices Kaliradman 0:47:15 Bram Frank - CSSD/SC 0:54:00 Guro Raoul Giannuzzi - Lapunti Arnis de Abanico 0:58:30 Punong-Guro Krishna Godhania - Warrion Escrima 1:03:00 Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart - Inayan System of Eskrima 1:07:10 Datu Dieter Knüttel - Modern Arnis 1:12:00 Guro Udo Müller - Inosanto Kali 1:16:50 Guro Wolfgang Müller - Lameco Eskrima 1:20:40 Grandmaster Bobby Taboada - Balintawak Arnis 1:25:30 Guro Sonny Umpad - Visayan Corto Cadena Escrima 1:30:10 Grandmaster Tony Veeck - NECOPA 1:35:00 End They are available on VHS and DVD, in german and english and the english VHS/DVD versions are also available in the american TV-standard NTSC. The retail price is 29,90 Euro each Video/DVD. The set-price for the seminar and gala together is 49,90 Euro. Following are the US$ prices at the current exchange rates: 29,90 Euro = 36,50 $; 49,90 Euro = 61 $ , plus the shipping costs, which is 10 $ to the US. If anybody is interestred, just send me a mail to dk@abanico.de and we proceed from there. Hope to hear from you soon Best regards Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Richard Killlick" To: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:44:02 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Krabi krabong? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I wonder if Krabi Krabong could stand with FMA in a blade against blade encounter? I tend to favour KK in stick fighting but I have crossed trained a lot in FMA. Krabi Krabong seems to be an art that is not pushed that much but has a lot to offer. All of the KK people I have met seem highly functional and I have seen a number of them give a beating to some straight FMA guys in stick fighting matches. KK seems to have it all including triangle footwork, good empty hands etc. KK is probably very underrated. Has Puno Guro Gat had any matches with anybody trained in KK? Anyone else? Regards Richard Killick > As far as the history of Britain is concerned, Mr Batts, you are a true > patriot and it would probably be a pleasure to go into detail on the subject > of your country but getting back to the point of my instructor - FMA is > superior to Western Fencing. Especially, in my opinion that angular is > superior to linear in fighting. > > > Respectfully, > Al Sardinas > Student of The Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Afern27@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:08:14 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Spanish Blade Culture Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "The Spanish carried blades on a daily basis far longer than did other Europeans, which led to their advanced sword skills." Ray, would you mind elaborating further on this? --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Spanish Blade Culture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "The Spanish carried blades on a daily basis > far longer than did other Europeans, which led to their advanced sword > skills." > > Ray, would you mind elaborating further on this? Just that the well dressed Spanish 'gentleman' carried a sword (and dagger) as part of his everyday wear far longer than did the smartly dressed gentlemen in the rest of Europe. Thus they continued to evolve combat sword play longer in Spain than did other Europeans. In the rest of Europe those that frequented the sword did so more for sport than for practical reasons. BTW, we see that the Italian school of fencing had a greater influence on Olympic style sport fencing than did the other schools. As for FMAers taking up sport fencing, I would expect any FMAer to do well. Not because of any greater skill, but because we have learned to fence using different rules... for combat purposes, far more practical rules. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Bobby Indas" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Missing The Point Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 19:50:19 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree with Gat Puno's point. The spaniards had their methods of fighting (fencing) but The Filipinos made it more effective. Take the example of Ferdinand Magellan when he fought the locals under the leadership of Lapu-Lapu, they studied their system first -- counter attacking and more slashing than one thrust and pointing the weakest area (as all eskrimadors great at) before they battle on the shores of Mactan Island. However, we may adopted the western fencing but the Art was there first. Yours in the Arts. Bobby _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest