Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:50:06 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #226 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Tennis and Escrima (garry bowlds) 2. Re: WEKAF, point sparring and Largo tactics (Bobby Indas) 3. Re: Espada y Daga drill (Phil Elmore) 4. point sparring (Van Harn, Steve) 5. [Policedo] Heads-up, Bolt guns (fwd (Ray Terry) 6. [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (fwd) (Ray Terry) 7. Re: [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (fwd) (Phil Elmore) 8. Re: [Policedo] Heads-up, Bolt guns (fwd (Phil Elmore) 9. FMA in Temecula, CA (jay de leon) 10. Effectiveness of the System (GatPuno@aol.com) 11. European/Angular Footworks (GatPuno@aol.com) 12. A yip on WEKAF stuff (Marc Denny) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 07:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: garry bowlds To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Tennis and Escrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This reminded me of the time I decided to take tennis lessons at a local junior college after about 10 years of Serrada training. Whenever the ball was hit to me, I'd return it, then twirl the racket Escrima-style, and get into position for the next volley. I still remember the funny looks I got from the instructors. Eventually one of them got curious and I explained that it was a habit from my Serrada training. Since it worked so well, they let me continue playing that way instead of trying to change it. By the end of the quarter, they even asked me to try out for the tennis team! Guro Garry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bobby Indas" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: WEKAF, point sparring and Largo tactics Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:14:51 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Interesting thread of discussion of WEKAF sparring. I remember when I was too young to understand sparring without headgear or uniforms to protect yourself are much as brutal and uncivilized. until I done it myself. I my country, we can’t afford to buy WEKAF gears or protective suits for stick fighting. That was way back 10 or 12 years ago (I’m sure it is still…). Who would think that without wearing gears now is safe. No matter how careful, controlled and fast you are somehow you will get hit or you can hit – vis-à-vis. I had my fair share of WEKAF fighting – got hit, bruised, and went to my Mother’s clinic because I got huge gash on the head. That’s how in my country fight – WITHOUT GEARS. So, if you think of not using gears to protect yourself, chances are you will remember for the rest of your life the pain and agony. The worst part? If you loose…! Bob _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Espada y Daga drill To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just for fun, here's an article I published not long ago on the subject of one five-strike espada y daga drill. http://www.themartialist.com/0104/espadaydaga.htm - Phil www.themartialist.com Aaron Alejandro wrote: Steve and Ray both brought up some great ideas, techniques and concepts regarding Espada y Daga. -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: "Eskrima Digest (E-mail)" Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:41:13 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] point sparring Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray responded to my reply: > Reply: > Define point sparring. I would define point sparring as similar to TKD or > Karate tournaments. The fight stopped at every point and called by judges > and tallied. First to 3or 5 points wins. "FWIW, TKD is not point sparring. It is round based non-stop sparring, more akin to boxing. Or at least that is the case with TKD from Korea over the last 35 years or so." OK, point taken, I should have clarified. I meant "Similar to TKD or karate Tournaments" as a whole. I shouldn't have generalized. Not all TKD but the basic open style local tournaments one see most weekends all over which tend to be predominantly TKD and Karate stylists with a few other styles looked upon oddly. Typical rules are point,break, call for points. First three to five wins. To me, even far more rule ridiculous yet. Steve Van Harn Arnis Sikaran - Jornales System Sandatahan --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, Bolt guns (fwd Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Ray ================================================ Bolt gun Disguised firearms are intended to be difficult to detect during random searches, and may also allow persons with criminal intent to get close to potential victim(s) without a firearm ever being viewed. A firearm can be designed and disguised as a common item found in the local hardware store, on construction sites, in car repair garages and most homes in America. One version of the weapon (which can vary depending on the size of the bolt) is approximately 5/8 inches in diameter and 4 inches in length. It is custom made for .22 caliber ammunition; however, other versions that have been recovered by law enforcement have gone as high as 12-gauge shotgun. In order to fire the weapon, you need only to pull back on the spring-loaded hex-head of the bolt and the release will fire the round. Obviously, this type of disguised weapon poses a serious danger to officers, and can be easily missed during pat down or even searches after arrest. Such a weapon would not appear menacing or draw attention if it were placed among common tools or with construction or mechanical objects. The only way to distinguish this weapon from a standard bolt is to observe the barrel hole on the end of the threaded portion, and the machined groove just under the hex-head where it rests on the bolt shaft. The possession, transportation, use, sale or transfer of such a disguised weapon is a felony violation of Federal Firearms Law as well as that of most State Fireamis Laws. Persons found in possession of such devices have been some of the most dangerous criminals including: outlaw motorcycle gangs, deranged persons and extremists. Extreme caution should be taken when such a weapon is found, as persons possessing such a firearm may have other hidden weapons or firearms in the vicinity. As always, caution should be taken with such a weapon as it poses a danger to anyone not familiar with how to unload the device. In addition, recovery of these types of weapons should be broadcasted to other law enforcement agencies, as it has been common to find that such weapons were duplicated. _______________________________________________ Policedo mailing list Policedo@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/policedo --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (fwd) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Ray ============================================== Cell phone guns Disguised firearms are intended to be difficult to detect during random searches, and may also allow persons with criminal intent to get close to potential victim(s) without a firearm ever being viewed. At this time, unknown persons are building cell phone guns and distributing them through the criminal underground. These types of weapons first started appearing in Europe in late 2000. The firearm is built around a hollow cell phone case and can be of any color. The firearm mechanism is installed inside the cell phone case so that by hitting the correct buttons, the cell phone case comes apart. In the top half of the phone's case one can see four .22 caliber (5.56mm) bullets in short barrels that are concealed by the plastic covering at the top of the cell phone. When the cell phone is snapped back together, four of the buttons on the cell phone will release a spring loaded firing pin into the rear of one of the bullets, firing it out the front of the case. As one would suspect, this weapon is not very accurate, but from a few feet away a shot to the head will kill. A hit anywhere else will be serious. Cell phone guns have yet to be reported in the United States. Intelligence is not sure as to the weapons origin; however, the Balkans is suspected. While these firearms look like cell phones, they are noticeably heavier then standard cell phones. For criminals, especially professional killers, such weapons would be useful in situations where people are being frisked for weapons, such as when entering a club or meeting with other gangsters. The weapons could have a myriad of criminal uses such as being smuggled into jails to aid in prison escapes, hijacking aircraft or espionage. Federal law enforcement personnel, as well as all port and airport authorities, have been briefed regarding these devices. It is felt that with the ease of small arm acquisition in the United States, it is more likely that such a weapon will be built in this country (instead of attempting to smuggle a completed version by law enforcement authorities). With all firearms caution should always be taken when attempting to unload; disguised weapons, however, produce added problems by their very nature. Due to their unique configuration, extreme caution should be taken when unloading these firearms. It is recommended that only personnel familiar or trained with the weapon perform the task in a safe area. _______________________________________________ Policedo mailing list Policedo@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/policedo --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (fwd) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think the danger of encountering one of these weapons (and therefore someone intent on using it to do harm) is extremely low. Culturally, it seems to me that folks in Europe overreact every time something like this comes up simply because they're not accustomed to weaponry and harbor a great deal of fear towards all forms of it (relatively speaking). The cries of horror at the discovery of a Glock machine pistol in the UK not long ago (it was discovered as part of a criminal investigation) are representative of this mindset -- you'd have thought our friends across the sea had discovered a portable nuclear weapons platform in their midst, to judge from the howls of fear coming from the press. Phil www.themartialist.com -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:02:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, Bolt guns (fwd To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It is extremely easy to build an expedient "zip gun" for light ammunition like the .22 Long Rifle from plumbing parts. It isn't the delivery system that's hard to create, relatively speaking -- it's the ammunition (and even that is not a technology that comes from space aliens). Phil www.themartialist.com -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:42:21 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Temecula, CA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am in the process of relocating to the Temecula, CA area. If you live, or have FMA or MA contacts or events in the area, please contact me privately. Thanks much, Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up – now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:02:55 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Effectiveness of the System Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/9/04 10:43:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > In short, I would recommend working with people from systems that you think > are inferior -- and or that your system has improved upon -- to discover > exactly how hollow such claims about how weak other systems are. As quite > often such comparisons are made in the context that a particular style > shines in and not considering that under other circumstances another system > excells. It is not until you have met that system, under those conditions > that you begin to understand how effective other systems can be. > > Marc Animal MacYoung Marc Animal Mac Young, I absolutely sopport you to your points. Are you having problem to believed that you are praticing FMA that not answer your question to any type of attack(i.e. sword, blade, rapier, bolo). First of all it does dnot matter how big your weapon, or how long your weapon, if you are being attack without you knowing, you will be dead before you even look at your opponent. I would agree to you, if yourself do not practiced FMA, but hey may be you are not understanding of the value of FMA enough. FMA is not an art of the Royal people or Soldier, in the Philippines, it was developed by family to family, some family is better than the other. I will tel you this, I am up to now looking the family to fight our family system that can defeat us. If I experienced to be defeated then I probably tell you, I am on to seek help to that family. As of now, I am stand to what I said to everyone, FMA is can stand to any European fighter like anybody else and will be able defeated them. Clothing, is not an issue here, Magellan and his soldier landed in Limasawa to invade Mactan, where Raja Lapu lapu was the chieftain. The spaniards was face off by the Filipino wearing only loin cloth and short sleeves vest, and able to subdue their modern body harness to protect their body. This is shows that the FMA is has superior way that this Spaniards fighting way. Spanish people, wether they like or not, Filipino give them a strong message to be careful and used the politically correct approach to invade the island of the Philippines. I do watch 'gladiator" spartacus, and other european rapeir and fencing movies. But hey this movies, this not true, they make this beautiful to watch, fighting is not beauty is ugly and messy. I been there done that, I was attack by knife, bolo, stick, multiple opponent, fight in the tournaments, being challenge, by numerous Eskrimador. Look up to now I am here and still surviving from all of that crisis. Believed it or not, I thoug I would not see my 40th birthday, but hey I am live and able to past that, may be the FMA is have something to do with it, that why I anm still here. I am not trying to make everyone believed on FMA, the only thing that I want them to see and know is there FMA that stand to all type of attack, from weapon to empty hand. FMA is used by the Filipino for hundreds of yeard to protect their loves ones and country. From Filipino -Spanish war, Filipino -American war, World war II against the Japanese and the short live invasion of Dutch to the Philippines on 1700. Now, If you think I am not doing my job to teach my student to progress to the arts. I have eork with my student harder, I sparred with them, and teach them the various counter to defeat any opponent to this kind of attack. I will tell you this, I alway sparred to my advanced student to show them, that they need to work harder to absorb what I want them to absorb, even the heart to fight is being taught to my student which is the harder to teach. Some practitioner is in born fighter, some are not. I want my student to defeat me if they can, becaused that what I would know I did a good job teaching them. But so far, I havent see anyone can over power me yet so far, but I have a feeling that they can do it if they work harder. That my ultimate prize is to see my student fight and win the fight, wetehr is Tounaments, or just a sparring. Well I am proud of them so far. Then in final, I always invite everyone to see for themselves what we have that there system dont have. I also asked several time to my student to attend other GM other system, seminars, Tournaments, or even Demo to see what they can absorb to add to their repertoire. Thank you for your recommendation, I will continue doing that. Again, I am inviting everyone to experience the system that would change your vision of FMA. Become a fighter, defeat your opponent without getting hit or giving up something. 2004 Garimot Arnis Summer Retreat in Florida jULY 9-10-11, I am not greedy, I am willing to share not like generation of my, grandfater & father , they keep for themselves becaused you dont know who will be attacking you and your family the next day. Therefore the training is done is secret as possible. Thank you, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International World Harimaw Buno Federation --__--__-- Message: 11 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:22:34 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] European/Angular Footworks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/9/04 11:23:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Mr. Ludwig Is this Maetro Martinez even occurate to his history, we have in the Philippine Museum in Manila, and I also in Internet the artifact the tool and weapon that Spanish brought to the Philippines. Rapier is one of the show piece made in Toledo spain. Foul, Estoque and etc. In regareds of the Angular footwork, may be you over looke the word but dont understand the theory of the angular footwork. We have a diffent meaning of angular foorwork that any angular footwork claim. Did ever heard the theory that I can position in cetain angular position, that I can tough you, or cut, thrust, and you cannot reach me with your weapon? If you dont know this theory, then we are talking different angular footwork. Angular meaning triagular. Besides, since I am not claiming I am expert in European arts, who know may be someone out there have similar idea, but I want to see it. For now, I still stand that they dont know the angular footwork that we are talking about. If you are good in Physic and Geometry, you would know the theory, unless the European have similar theory, then I would swallowed my claim and say ooops! I am soory I dinnt know. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International World Harimaw Buno Federation This what I got from Maeste Martinez is that the Spanish > > didn't bring rapier and dagger methods to the > Philipines, but their military saber techniques. But I > think it is absurd to say that the Europeans didn't > know how to use angular footwork because it is not > used in modern sport strip fencing. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] A yip on WEKAF stuff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: FWIW a quick summary of my impressions on the WEKAF thread: 1) The headgear has merits for protection during sparring. I dislike the bib-- in my experience it tends to block keeping the chin tucked the way it should be. Therefore I have removed the bibs from my WEKAF headgear. 2) The WEKAF tournaments I've seen (the 1st Nationals seen in "The Grandfathers Speak" and a world (or was it national?) championship held a few years back here in LA) seemed to have a lot of "dancing bear" and generally both players received more hits than either could have survived in a fight. If reputation is to be given credibility, politics seems to be , , , not unknown. 3) Conditioning requirements for this type of competition seem to be pretty high. 4) I've met Doce Pares people from Cebu who were into WEKAF who seemed to be quite capable. In short, to each his own. yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest