Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:08:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #227 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Doors fan (steve kohn) 2. WEKAF (Ray Terry) 3. headgear (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Gat Puno's post (Marc Macyoung) 5. [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (Pngreiff@aol.com) 6. PHILIPPINE Indepence Celebration June 12 Saturday (GatPuno@aol.com) 7. Guns in the UK (Ollie Batts) 8. Cabales Serrada Escrima ~ Temecula, CA (Dave Lee) 9. FMA videos (PHATK98@aol.com) 10. RE: Books/Videos On Solo Baston Materials (WEE Shin Hoe) 11. Forward from Rafael Kayanan (Steven Lefebvre) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Doors fan Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 19:47:25 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Phil, I think I said "used to hate The Doors". If i didnt, I meant to. I saw the error in my ways and am now a fan. This is the end... Best, Steve   >From: Phil Hurcum >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Doors fan >Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 20:00:52 -0700 (PDT) > >Steve Kohn, I always enjoy reading your posts. I must >take issue with you Doors comments. I think also >perhaps Crafty Dog may as well. >I will not answer any further your blasphemous >comments but provide you with this link to an >insightful meaning of what it means to be a Doors fan. >Please listen to the empeethree and sin no more. >Jim is spinning in his grave like a 45 brother! > >Phil "in all my doorness" hurcum >http://www.arkangelmartialarts.com/doors/Bruce >Mcculloch - A Doors Fan.mp3 > >===== > >Phil Hurcum >.:Head Instructor:. >Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences >"Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" > >www.arkangelmartialarts.com > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] WEKAF Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On the topic of WEKAF, what some folks may be forgetting is that this is A SPORT. It was/is the RP's attempt to get their national martial art into the Olympics, following the lead of Japan with Judo and Korean with Taekwondo. Nothing more... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] headgear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net One of my students reminded me that I failed to mention that we do doctor the TKD headgear a bit before use. There are some larger gaps in the headgear that is ok for Taekwondo, but not for stickfighting. So we just take some old Jhoon Rhee Saf-T-kicks and Saf-T-chops, cut them up and duct tape into the gaps in the headgear. Works pretty well. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:53:53 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Gat Puno's post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: GatPuno@aol.com > I absolutely sopport you to your points. Are you having problem to believed > that you are praticing FMA that not answer your question to any type of > attack(i.e. sword, blade, rapier, bolo). Let's just say that I've a little experience with blades and how they are used. As such, I have learned to have respect for different methods and systems. Also in the process I have developed a slight distrust of the idea that one style covers all contengencies. People are very clever monkeys when it comes to killing each other. With that in mind, different bodymechanics produce different angles and types of attack. This is over and above the many clever strategies people come up to attack one another. > First of all it does dnot matter how big your weapon, or how long your > weapon, if you are being attack without you knowing, you will be dead before you > even look at your opponent. You know, I think I might have heard that somewhere before. >I would agree to you, if yourself do not practiced > FMA, but hey may be you are not understanding of the value of FMA enough. Or perhaps after a lifetime of study of the subject of violence and fighting, I have developed an appreciation of the value of many different systems -- including how complicated the issues involved are. > FMA is not an art of the Royal people or Soldier, in the Philippines, it was > developed by family to family, some family is better than the other. Hmmm... having said that, the fact that Darwinian process didn't eradicate these lesser family systems might imply that they were doing something right. On the other hand, the success of western military expansion is a pretty tough issue to dismiss as "inferior." >I will > tel you this, I am up to now looking the family to fight our family system that > can defeat us. If I experienced to be defeated then I probably tell you, I am > on to seek help to that family. As of now, I am stand to what I said to > everyone, FMA is can stand to any European fighter like anybody else and will be > able defeated them. I am glad to hear that you have such unshakable faith in your system. I however, who have just a little experience with fighting/combat (and the complexities that arise therein), as well as just a little bit of knowledge about historical warfare and have played with a wide number of people from various systems (including historical weapondry) -- must reserve judgement about such a claim. Personally I get up everyday, nearly daunted at the magnitude of what I don't know about the subject. But then again, I am not a martial artist, but instead a martial analyst. That keeps me constantly studying and learning about this subject. > Clothing, is not an issue here, Really? Ever heard of the Crusades? The turning the Turkish invasion at Vienna? The Polish knights chasing the Mongols through the bog? Perhaps Napoleon in Russia? Clothing and equipment are very much an issue. Or have you never tried to hit someone with a kali stick through a Karnhart jacket? An artic parka? How about trying to slice through a "biker's" leather jacket with a knife? I'm sure a man of your great experience would have considered these issues. I, however, didn't have the gift of your experience when I, as a youth, encountered problems like this while fighting. But I will tell you that they impressed me enough so that in my professional endeavors, I made it a habit to wear protective equipment when working. A strategy that proved itself to be rather handy on those times that I was not as quick as I should have been. >Magellan and his soldier landed in Limasawa > to invade > Mactan, where Raja Lapu lapu was the chieftain. The spaniards was face off by > the Filipino wearing only loin cloth and short sleeves vest, and able to > subdue their modern body harness to protect their body. This is shows that the FMA > is has superior way that this Spaniards fighting way. No, like Little Big Horn, it shows that the natives won that one. > Spanish people, wether they like or not, Filipino give them a strong message > to be careful and used the politically correct approach to invade the island > of the Philippines. Politically correct way to invade? Could you explain that one to George Bush? Or are you stating that one should always take care when deciding to invade a country filled with people who have an effective fighting system? If the latter, then yes, it is just common sense to use trickery as well as military prowess. >I do watch 'gladiator" spartacus, and other european > rapeir and fencing movies. But hey this movies, this not true, they make this > beautiful to watch, fighting is not beauty is ugly and messy. Again, I am familar with the concept. My example of the movies was to explain a concept, not to indicate that they were examples of authentic western fighting systems. I like El Cid as well as the next guy, but I don't think using a saddle to trip a horse is something I want to do. Nor would I consider that indictative of Spainish fighting systems. > I been there done that, I was attack by knife, bolo, stick, multiple > opponent, fight in the tournaments, being challenge, by numerous Eskrimador. I'm glad that you survived such trying experiences. I hope the wisdom that you gained from your experiences you pass onto your students -- including not engaging in the folly that put you into those dangerous situations. Look up > to now I am here and still surviving from all of that crisis. Believed it or > not, I thoug I would not see my 40th birthday, but hey I am live and able to > past that, may be the FMA is have something to do with it, that why I anm still > here. With me the biggest surprise of my life was that I had lived to see 21. But I was a little rambuncious in my youth. > I am not trying to make everyone believed on FMA, the only thing that I want > them to see and know is there FMA that stand to all type of attack, from > weapon to empty hand. Very strong words indeed sir. I, being a far greater coward, have over the years chosen not to tempt my luck by inviting such attacks or provoking them. But perhaps it is because -- having done so in my past -- I have gained greater respect for the prowess of dangerous people. For as I have learned, dangerous people tend to be as compent, tough and sneaky as myself. As such I would have to be always good, whereas they would only have to lucky once. And how good they are influences how lucky they are. But as I said, you obviously have faith in your system and skills. > Now, If you think I am not doing my job to teach my student to progress to > the arts. I in no way implied that, sir. >I have eork with my student harder, I sparred with them, and teach > them the various counter to defeat any opponent to this kind of attack. I will however, ask you if you also teach your students to respect the threat that an opponent offers -- regardless of what system or method that he uses. While I will conceed your obvious belief as to the effectiveness of your system as you practice it, as an instructor of survivial, I often find that students who believe themselves to be the possessors of an invincible fighting system are prone to a fatal mistake -- that of underestimating the danger poised by an opponent and his "lesser skills" If you are as experienced as you say then you too must have seen the body of a cocky young man hit the floor for having made the grave mistake of underestimating an opponent's ability to attack. > tell you this, I alway sparred to my advanced student to show them, that they > need to work harder to absorb what I want them to absorb, even the heart to > fight is being taught to my student which is the harder to teach. Good for you. Personally though I tell my students not to do the stupid and dangerous things that I have done. Because, as I have grown older I realized how much dumb luck was an intergal part of my survival. I say this having seen many fighters who were my superiors in that department get killed because as good at fighting as they were, the guy standing in the shadows with a shotgun was both sneakier and better armed. > That my ultimate prize is to see my student fight and win the fight, wetehr > is Tounaments, or just a sparring. Well I am proud of them so far. Interesting, my goal is to see my students become better people. > > Again, I am inviting everyone to experience the system that would change your > vision of FMA. Become a fighter, defeat your opponent without getting hit or > giving > up something. 2004 Garimot Arnis Summer Retreat in Florida jULY 9-10-11, Unfortuantely, I will be busy at that time organizing our annual international gathering here in Castle Rock Colorado. We do a yearly demonstration of these different arts and styles at the Castle Rock Rec Center on July 23. Seeing so many fine practictioners of different styles has greatly lead to my increased respect as to how many effective methods are out there. Sincerely Marc Animal MacYoung --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Pngreiff@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:07:39 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Phil, I know for a fact one was seized at a Govt facility on the east coast of the USA, I have interviewed the gentleman that took it into custody. Pete Reiff --__--__-- Message: 6 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:23:02 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] PHILIPPINE Indepence Celebration June 12 Saturday Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, hello in Miami and Ft Lauderdale Area in Florida, We are inviting everyone to watch the Philippines Independence Day Celebration. The whole day appear to Celebrate the first Independence Day of the Philippines from Spanish occupation. June 12, 1898. The Celebration will includes, Filipino Fold dances, Filipino Song, Music, and our Garimot Arnis and Harimaw Buno demonstration, which going to be at 2PM in the afternoon, 15 of my student will do the Demo and I will the last to give the final Demo, which is always surprise even to my student. So dont miss it and I hope to see you there, enjoy the Filipino food and Music. Games etc. N. Giffing Park, 2nd Avenue NE and West Dixie Highway, N. Miami, Florida call me if you got lost Cell. 305 788-4403 Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International World Harimaw Buno Federation --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:49:24 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Guns in the UK Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dunno what you're on about Phil. I live in the UK and I can assure you that there are plenty of handguns around - now illegally held of course, although before the ban I too had a 9mm Baby Eagle. Now I have to make do with an Ithaca 8-shop pump - quite legally held on a Firearms certificate. Pugil Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Heads-up, cell phone guns (fwd) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think the danger of encountering one of these weapons (and therefore someone intent on using it to do harm) is extremely low. Culturally, it seems to me that folks in Europe overreact every time something like this comes up simply because they're not accustomed to weaponry and harbor a great deal of fear towards all forms of it (relatively speaking). The cries of horror at the discovery of a Glock machine pistol in the UK not long ago (it was discovered as part of a criminal investigation) are representative of this mindset -- you'd have thought our friends across the sea had discovered a portable nuclear weapons platform in their midst, to judge from the howls of fear coming from the press. Phil www.themartialist.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dave Lee" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:04:48 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Cabales Serrada Escrima ~ Temecula, CA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mata Sa Bagyo Filipino Martial Arts ~ Presents Carlito Bonjoc Jr. **Filipino Art of Self-Defense Stick & Knife Fighting Seminar** Cabales Serrada Escrima WHEN: Saturday, July 17th 2004 WHERE: Gold’s Gym Temecula 26201 Ynez Road Temecula, CA 92591 TIME: 10:30 AM Check-In & Registration ~ 11:00 AM - 4:00 PM Class Instruction (1hr break) COST: $50.00 per person – pre-register on or before June 24, 2004 $75.00 per person – pre-register up to July 1, 2004 After July 10, 2004… $100.00 per person cash only accepted at the door. ***$$SAVINGS$$!!!***Please ask us about our awesome group rates!!!*** * Space is limited to first 30 students! * Pre-registering is strongly advised. * Please R.S.V.P. now!!! For more info contact: David Lee (805) 570-9163 * E-Mail: dr2spike@hotmail.com * Check us out online: www.bagyo.net Send certified check or money order payable to: DAVID LEE * 2424 W. Sonoma Ave. – Stockton, CA 95204 * *No personal checks accepted* _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: PHATK98@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:59:58 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey I was just wondering if anyone have any videos or know a place where i can get videos of FMA. I am looking for fight videos not "how to" videos. I would like to watch old or new amatuer or professional fights. Someone had shown me an old fight video from the philippines and it was pretty brutal no protective gear and video was very amatuer, unfortunately I lost the video. now i am loooking for videos. I am willing to trade..currently i dont have any Fight or kumite videos only (UFC ultimate knock outs vol. 1 & 2) but i have a lot of movie dvds and willing to trade. I know these videos are hard to come by thats why am asking my fellow fighters. thank you --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "WEE Shin Hoe" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:32:36 +0800 Organization: TRADIMAS SDN BHD Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Books/Videos On Solo Baston Materials Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Guys, I have learned some basic arnis from a Filipino colleague (who later returned to Philipine)for about 6 months and trained without an instructor for the last two years, mainly focusing on the basics. Bought quite a number of books and videos but most of them are either quite basic or with enough delicate movements to rival Wushu. I will be very grateful if you guys can recommend some good books/videos on advanced solo baston works. What I am interested in is something that works in real world and translates well into machete techniques. Thanks in advance. S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:39:17 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Forward from Rafael Kayanan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, I was forwarded this from Rafael Kayanan. More great material! Guro Steve L. On debunking the humidity affecting gunpowder during Magellan's attack on Mactan: "However, as long as our gunpowder lasted, those of that land did not dare to close with them; but when it was used up, they surrounded us on all sides, and since they were incomparably more numerous, they prevailed, and our men were not able to defend themselves or escape, and fighting until they were exhausted, some died, and Magellan among them" Fernando Oliveira, the other account of Magellan's voyages, from the translations of Karl Heinz Weiznor and Pedro Sastre. On what the Spaniards wrote themselves: Francisco de Sande in his report to the Crown of Spain for the Legazpi expedition dated June 8, 1577, page 337, The Colonization and Conquest of the Philippines by Spain, VIII, "A collection of important source documents related to the Legazpi expedition of 1564..." by the Filipiniana Book Guild bound in 1965. Francisco de Sande sailed in from Acapulco, Nueva Espana and his letters were to the Crown. His accounts of the aftermath of the Chinese corsair Limahong's invasion of Manila is also good reading as it was from a first hand account. de Sande's observations are of note because it came from a perspective of one who had lived in South America, Spain and the Philippines during that time. (CAPS are emphasized by Rafael Kayanan) : "The Indians of this country are not simple or foolish, nor are they frightened by anything whatever. They can be dealt with ONLY BY THE ARQUEBUSE, or by the gifts of GOLD or SILVER. If they were like those of Nueva Espana, Peru, Tierra Firme, and in other explored places where the ships of Castilla may enter, sound reasoning might have some effect. But these Indians first inquire if they must be Christians, pay money, forsake their wives, and other similar things. They kill Spaniards so boldy, that WITHOUT THE ARQUEBUSES WE COULD DO NOTHING. This was the reason that Magallanes, Sayavedra, and those who came afterward from Nueva Espana were maltreated. All those who have been killed since the coming of Miguel Lopez de Legazpi received THEIR DEATH THROUGH THE LACK OF ARQUEBUSES. The Indians have thousands of lances, daggers, shields, and other pieces of armor, with which they fight so well. They have no leaders to whom they look up. THE HAVOC CAUSED BY THE ARQUEBUSE, and their own lack of honor, make them seek refuge in flight, and give obedience to our orders." End quote. --Rafael Kayanan-- Sayoc Kali --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest