Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:02:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #234 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: training knives (Stephen luna) 2. WEKAF-50/50 just my opinion (GatPuno@aol.com) 3. Mr. Tucker Good response (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. comments of Marc Mac Young/here a little of me (cfm) 5. Marc Mac Young/here a little of me (Ollie Batts) 6. NYC AMOK Knife Seminar 6/19-20 (Kel620@aol.com) 7. re: Thought is well taken (Marc Macyoung) 8. RE: Trankada - The Joint Locking Techniques & Tapi-Tapi Of Modern Arnis (Danny Anderson) 9. Re: Fighting with no protection (Gints Klimanis) 10. Re: Bob Orlando's Tapes, Dr. Andre Knustgraichen's tapes (Gints Klimanis) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stephen luna" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] training knives Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:25:36 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cold Steel makes some great training knives, but if you'd rather go the low cost way, self carved wooden knives are great, or store bought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Getting married? Find great tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:01 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] WEKAF-50/50 just my opinion Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hbbard wrote: > > My teacher, Ramon Rubia doesn't advocate the "50/50" as Gat Puno Abon has > referred to. We always train to keep what we're doing honest. That's one of > the > reasons we were one of the only Doce Pares groups to participate in the DB. > Steve and I both did a pretty good job of using the corto kurbada style in > the > DB as well. And in WEKAF, that's mainly what you use in tournaments. Some > WEKAF > people hit really lightly and others, like us, don't. Just like the DB, what > it > appears to be on the surface is not what it is actually. The DB Gatherings > seem > more "real" than they are and WEKAF seems more "show" than it is in reality. > When you put your feet in both arenas as I have, then you can see that > although > their respective curriculum and emphasis are different, they are really only > vehicles to train certain skills and mental states in an environment that is > not "real" but a close approximation. And if you look passed the flash of > each > genre to their respective cores, you get more out of each and you can truly > appreciate the value of each venue. > > This just my opinion. If you cover up yourself completely, you dont feel the hit, no matter how hard you get hit. Second fight is does not last long when you dont have protective gear. One it take is one good shot to the head and basically fight could easily over. During Fights, I experience a openly smask finger, nails, that could slow you down right away. Well this is just my opinion, remove the gear, and I would say you are not going to be agressively attack him, or charging like the bulls is not a smart idea at all if your opponent has equally armed like you. I do agree that WEKAF style has a lot to offer, cardio training, speed and great grips training. Other than that, I would say it is not good to based the reality arts, is really suitable for sports and serves the purpose for sport Arnis. But sometimes, its so hard to see who are the winner, the judge have a very hard job to do. Specially when they charge, start hitting each other, its so hard to see who got hit more. Atleast on the Dog Brother Style, they still have a lot of open target, even though they cover the the most effective target the head and the hands, still good for reality training. You still have to have guts to do it, specially when the grappling is materialized on the fight, its end up who is the strongest and skilled. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International World Harimaw Buno Federation --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:24:58 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Tucker Good response Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/12/04 12:08:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: question: > "If anyone has a link to a website with any kind of hard "proof" of this, > please post it. I'm not impressed by stories." > Mr. Tucker response: > Maybe those that do it are secure enough with their own abilities and don't > feel the need to prove it to anyone or impress you. > Good response Mr Tucker. The people do the No-gear sparring is not doing it to impress others, they doing it for themselves to see if they can survive to Semi-realistic approach. Becaused when come to reality, is more intense and the attacker is not going stop for the time-out sign. We do have the picture if that what make you satisfied, but again, its is not make you convinced that their doing this to impress you anyway. When you see the real fight, fight will finish with so fast and you dont even know what happen at all and you going to say that it. Talk is longer that the actual fights. Pannandata have their own way of Full contact, and other groups. I will make some picture posted on my website soon. Thank you for reminding me, I forget already to ask my Web keeper to put up some of the picture. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International World Harimaw Buno Federation --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "cfm" To: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:49:21 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] comments of Marc Mac Young/here a little of me Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My hat comes off to Marc Animal MacYoung on his awesome post which is bang on the money. I am a 7 year veteran correctional officer in a maximum security prison, and a member of the emergency response team at that prison. Marc's comments are very accurate about the nature of dangerous people. In my job I have seen both types of violent people he describes, his words are both wise and true. I have been observing this ongoing current marketing strategy on the fourm and my feelings about it could not have been described better than Marc's post, I wish I was as articulate. It appears to me that Marc has a bit more worldly perspective with surviving violence, which in my own humble opinion is very accurate. Thank you Marc for the insightful post, I hope some on the fourm will heed your advice. My congratulations and respect. Carson F. McDonald Kali Ilustrisimo practitioner --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:09:52 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Marc Mac Young/here a little of me Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re: Message: 8 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:24:24 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] RE; Marc Mac Young/here a little of me Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "As for my fighting experience, I hurt someone's feelings once." A fan of De Niro I see then Marc! ;o) Pugil --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:24:31 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CC: escrima_arnis@topica.com Subject: [Eskrima] NYC AMOK Knife Seminar 6/19-20 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Professor Tom Sotis will be conducting an AMOK knife seminar in NYC on June 19 & 20 from 1:00PM to 5:30PM. Location: Village Martial Arts 188 East 3rd. Street(betw. Ave. A & B) New York, NY 10009 Cost: 1 day: $45 2 days: $75 For more information, please contact Guro Doug Pierre @ 212-614-3250. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:05:38 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Thought is well taken Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >GatPuno@aol.com > I just want to clarify, that I am not making a living of teaching, I am a > professional Chef and Kitchen Artist. I make a living doing Ice Carving > (sculpture) and cooking Demo, and making Fruit and Vegetable centerpieces to all > banquet event. I work as Consultant in several Catering business and work full time > in Hotel as Bangquet Chef. Hohohohohoho!!! Now you are talking my language! Although I am not as skilled as those who taught me, cooking is a passion of mine. I worked in a restaurant in my youth and I sent my ex through the Scottsdale Culinary Institute in AZ, so I have some familiarity with the industry. These days, great joy is to see a room full of people enjoying the results of my work in the kitchen. I am always on the lookout for new recipes to try. If you have some that you would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it. > Is it my passion to teach, and I am true to waht I teach. And those are wonderful traits to have. > I still hold > the code of conduct of Eskrimador. But its is the nature of Eskrimadores to > stand to his philosphy. I never doubted your willingness to back your words and beliefs. In fact it is quite obvious that your passion for your art is very strong. >He reminds me of the other GM i know back > home. Remy Presas, tell you the same, he is the best, and ready to prove that > too. So I can see that all of the GM I know have the same attitude towards there > arts. I will tell you something about myself. Bob Orlando dubbed me "a two legged ferret." It's true, like that animal -- these days -- I am happy, bouncey, inquisative, friendly and able to have fun in a paperbag. But that is me today. My time in hell is over.I no longer live the lifestyle where violence is a constant threat. In fact, I have set a new record, I have not been shot at in 9 years... never have I gone that long before. However, people are greatly confused when I tell them this. The reason they are confused is that when I say it I am cheerful and do a little jig of happiness. The condradiction between such a horrible idea and not only my cheerful demeanor, but my casual acceptance of it is very unsettling to most people. Most of whom would expect me to act differently regarding such a daunting subject as an attempt on my life. However, when I walk into a room full of heavy hitters, that combination of skill, awareness and the nasty draconian part that got me through those times are immediately recognized by those who have been there themselves. As is the fact that I am not "hunting" or looking for trouble. This and not having to prove anything allows us to all sit down, relax and have a good time if they are in the same mindset. What many people do not realize is how loudly a group of heavy hitters can howl in laughter while telling "war stories" among themselves. An oft quoted term is "It wasn't funny at the time." But they have to be relaxed and know that others will not freak out about the stories they are telling. Unfortunately, most people have no idea what the real signs of fighters/heavy hitters are. By in large they expect such people to act a certain way. A way that I liken to a combination of a high school bully on steriods and a prima donna on PMS. If they don't see this displayed behavior, they don't think that someone is "real." In fact, many inexperienced people upon meeting me are not convinced that I experienced the things I talk about. I don't act like the Bully/PMS arrogant asshole that they imagine such a person would have to be. Making this wrong assumption, occassionally such people make serious mistakes of conduct towards me -- especially unblooded students of so-called deadly fighting arts -- then all of a sudden I display what gave me my alias "Animal." When that happens the happy go lucky ferret is gone and an irratated wolverine is looking them dead in the eye. All of a sudden their ultimate fighting system looks a whole lot less ultimate. In my youth, I would not have allowed them to apologize (part of the reason why I got into so much violence), but I have learned to allow people honorable exits. (And to end any speculation on the subject, this is the reason why I stopped studying with Stevan Plinck. When three people he insisted be present in training enraged me to the point where I was ready to do extreme violence, I decided that -- despite the quality of instruction/information -- it wasn't worth it. I don't need to go back to that mental place anymore, instead I chose to quit). What I am saying is that I am not insensitive to how frustrating it can be when dealing with people in regards to the martial arts -- especially when it comes to someone who has not tasted blood speaking about how good they are. When by looking at what the person is doing, you see massive holes that you could enter through to kill them. This is not boasting, bragging or bluster, it is a simple clear cut fact, if we were to engage, the person would be dead. Dead, not because your system is so much superior, but because what they are doing leaves so many holes and openings -- access points that they are not even aware of. What frustrated me for many, many years, was the combination of these unconscious holes in their defenses and pig headed pride that it would work. I could not demonstrate what was wrong because I would hurt them and I could not speak clearly enough to convince them that their was problems with what they were doing. Problems that would only be revealed in combat... and by then it would be fatally too late. What had me pulling my hair out in frustration, was their insistance that they were doing what I was trying to explain that they needed to do. "You need to cover this angle" "I am" "No what you are doing is wiggling your hand out over here" "Well this is what grand mahahahaha uber guru taught me to do...so it has to work!" How can you show these people what you are talking about without beating the hell out of them? "You really think that works huh?....BAM!...Still think it F****G works?!?" Then they think you are the a*****e who beat them up. I spent years getting madder and madder at this kind of thinking. I was so frustrated that I couldn't get what I was talking about across because people assumed that they knew what I was talking about. Then they'd go off and do what they thought they knew instead of what I was trying to show them. These people were automatically doing things that they had no idea they were doing. Eventually I came up with a saying "He's very well trained in a bad system" What I am trying to say is I know how frustrating it can be trying to get across something that you know works -- especially when you cannot clarify to people what it is exactly you are talking about. Eventually you do get to the point where you want to say to people "Why don't I just kick your a** and show you what I am talking about" But you can't do that...tempting as it might be. I really do have compassion for you and the frustration I sense in your words. It must be doubly hard for you not only having this experience, but also dealing with people from a differnt culture and in a language that is not your native tongue. I wish you the best of luck and I hope that in some small way my words have helped you. Sincerely Marc Animal MacYoung --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:42:37 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Trankada - The Joint Locking Techniques & Tapi-Tapi Of Modern Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, My newest book, Trankada - The Joint Locking Techniques & Tapi-Tapi Of Modern Arnis is finished and is now website for general sale. The download version will be immediately available. The hard copy version should be in my hands in roughly three weeks. The website page to go to is http://danandersonkarate.com/store/arnis_bk4.html Here is a quote from one person who bought the download: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan, Just got Trankada. You did a great job on this one. Just wanted to note that one of my instructors stresses the 45 degree angle constantly as one of his foundations. In fact, I can't think of a lock or throw that is not done on a 45 degree angle. Also: alot of the tie ups in the Tapi Tapi section look familiar because he does variations of these empty handed. He calls them "cinches" (as in "cinch knot") as the arms are often intertwined quite painfully and trapped against his body. Weight and leverage do the rest against the wrists and elbows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This book is 187 pages, has over 1,450 photos and is the companion volume to Mano y Mano - The Weaponless Fighting Applications Of Modern Arnis. All for now. Yours, Dan Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find great tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:35:07 -0700 From: Gints Klimanis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Fighting with no protection Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >I've heard >too many stories over the years (which inevitably get exaggerated when >there's no documentation to back them up) to not question them. That's >why I like to see video. I think you're a too harsh on this matter. Video is a relatively new documentation method. Even within industrialized countries, very few have actually dropped the cash on such devices. It takes quite a bit of expertise, money and effort to make a video clip. Here's a quick test. During your time in martial arts training, how many photos or videos have you made available? Have you ever released a video clip ? If so, please send me a link. There are other impediments. Very few people are willing to fight without protection. The biological cost is high, so these matches are rare. Most simply took place without any visual documentation. Judging from the laws that still exist regulating dueling behavior, duels took place in the United States up until recently. I am quite sure that no one would agree to motion picture coverage of a potential death match. Even at most martial arts seminars, videotaping or filming is limited to organizers, so the footage stays private. You can just cry at all of the good footage just rotting away in someone's closet or degrading daily from damaging magnetic fields from the large magnets in TV sets or speakers. When you hear about unarmored stick sparring, it is usually something called flow sparring - a type of randomizing striking drill involving skilled practitioners. While I wouldn't consider that real fighting, the drill is nonetheless demanding. If you really don't have your skills "down", you will get clocked in the head and have your hands mashed. To keep the drill lively, lighter, shorter or even tapered sticks are used. It is sparring with a tighter set of restrictions to encourage the development of stick skills. There are a few clips of flow sparring to be found on the web, but most of the old, good stuff is sitting on old 8mm and VHS. The 8mm material is costly to convert, so you really won't be seeing any of that unless you are close to the owner of the tape. Finally, some people are simply unwilling to share the footage. It costs money to distribute such footage, and usually, it's just money lost because the customer base is small. Even Dog Brothers have released very little match footage compared to the amount they've actually videotaped. And you know they have something like 50 bouts/year for the ten years from the Gathering events alone. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:35:28 -0700 From: Gints Klimanis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando's Tapes, Dr. Andre Knustgraichen's tapes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Walter Vorhauer wrote: > Also, on a side note, I was considering in purchasing Bob Orlando's tape on silat >and kuntao. Has one ever seen or own any of his video, and if so, are they >informative as far as the overall scope of what he teachs? I have Orlando's VHS "Fighting Arts of Indonesia" and his two books _Indonesian Fighting Fundamentals_ and _Martial Arts America_ The first book is the best instructional Silat book I've read and I own or have read just about every Silat book . Other Silat books are generally unfocused and include too many stories and personal jabs to be considered instructional texts, although they are still interesting to read. Donn Draeger's _Weapons and Fighting Arts fo Indonesia_ is also fantastic as a reference to styles and weapons, but it really isn't an instructional text. Orlando's _Martial Arts America_ is a great read on the state of martial arts and propagation into a new host culture - America. It's not a book that is specific to any art, but you won't set it down to you've finished. As for his video tapes, I have not seen his newer tapes. I do own "Fighting Arts of Indonesia". All I can say is that you'll get much more from his book of similar title. I have a few Silat tapes from the various teachers, though I haven't purchased any of the newer offerings since 2001 or so. Of the tapes that I do own, I think Stevan Plinck's tapes ( I own "Pukulan Pentjak Silat" and "Serak Series Volume 1)) are pretty good. As for hunting for older tapes, I have one of Dr. Andre Knustgraichen's "Pentjak Silat" tapes from dojotv.com. The company went bust before I could snag the other two in the series. Has anyone here seen them? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest