Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #240 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: a new day (Todd Ellner) 2. Re: Blaise and Keating (Ken) 3. Re: Re: a new day (Ken Ingram) 4. RE:Help (steve kohn) 5. re: Heavy Hitters (Marc Macyoung) 6. [Policedo] Liquid Armor (fwd) (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Asian Mystique (John Montes) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:45:39 -0700 From: Todd Ellner To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: a new day Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> ... It seems that Americans >> are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will >> fall all over themselves to learn a technique from an >> Asian "master" but you can't give them the same info >> for free when taught by a white American. >This day and age most Americans and Europeans are no doubt learning >from Anglo masters/instructors. That wasn't necessarily the case 30 or >even 15 years ago, but times have changed. I see a bit of a backlash. There's a lot of chatter about how Asian combatives are inefficient, not practical, etc. etc. etc. and how Western combatives are where it's _really_ at if you want to be able to fight. Paens to Saint Fairbairn and all the rest. Sambo is well on its way to being flavor of the week now that BJJ has become common and accepted. People are busy discovering or creating (or creating and backfilling the history of) any number of Western Martial Arts. These things come and go. When my teacher (Steve Plinck) was looking for a teacher his first guru - his grandmother - only asked one question. "Stevie, can he fight?" Until the answer was "yes" she wasn't interested no matter what the guy's background was. A lot of people all over the world know how to fight. A smaller number can teach. If you are lucky enough to find someone who can do both in a way that works with your body and brain you are ahead of the game. I figure at that point the style of funny hat you get to wear and the language you count in is personal preference :-) Oh, yes, it helps if the teacher is reasonably ethical and not enough of a horse's ass that you hang it up after a month :-\ Todd --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:24:02 -0700 From: Ken To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've long ago detached myself from feelings of consternation regarding the near-sightedness, or tunnel-mindednes of various students of fighting arts. In every area of life, there are people who naysay knowledge based on their illogical prejudices and ill-founded opinions. I find it amusing how we can get so bent out of shape based on the ignorance of a few people. The "martial arts" community seems to be the most susceptible to this kind of reaction. I don't know Blaise and I've never seen his work. My teacher taught Mr. Keating's teacher. Until I can fairly evaluate what these people are capable of doing, it's stoopid to offer an opinion. As far as the validity of someone white teaching the art vs an Asian, there are cultural implications of learning a system. There is an historical basis for all fighting techniques, whether relegated to the small radius of family history or the broader and more encompassing radius of national history. Frankly, from my experience with some white practitioners they failed to have an interest in the culture or simply presume things about the culture which are founded in ignorance. I noticed that the concomittant behavior was the norm rather than the exception. Some white practitioners recognize this flaw and search for "authenticity" but even that can become a pitfall of searching for the ethnic signs rather than searching for the signs of a knowledgeable and skilled teacher. My teacher is Filipino, but many of his principles transcend cultural implications even though the techniques that preserve the principle are rooted in his cultural situation. The first person who taught me Eskrima was white, he was skilled, and he seemed to have a respect for the culture, but he still lacked insights (more of a function of his personal character than being white) which I gained after training with the originator. Anyway, take a deep breath folks. Hit the bag, do some conditioning, get in a little sparring, and keep learning the truth. "...the proof of the pudding is in the eating..." - Shakespeare If you haven't taken a taste, what do you know about the quality? On Wed, Jun 16, 2004 at 03:44:18PM -0700, steven ledwith wrote: > I don't know much about Blaise but there seems to > be a lot of bias against him here. From what I have > been able to find on the net about him, he seems to > recognize his instructors. Apparently, everyone is > upset because he has relabeled some old things or > legitimately has some new arts to offer. Maybe both? > At least he is making an effort to put out a product. > I know a little more about Keating. Things I like > about him are: understandable technique(he speaks > English), entertaining (I hate to fall asleep watching > videos), he has a sense of humor and doesn't seem to > take himself to seriously. I also like the fact that > he makes a clear distinction between > self-defense/combat techniques and what is art and for > fun. > He has made some controversial comments. But has > also made some valid points. It seems that Americans > are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will > fall all over themselves to learn a technique from an > Asian "master" but you can't give them the same info > for free when taught by a white American. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima -- ============================================================================ As recently as 1972, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia said that the jury has an "...unreviewable and irreversible power... to acquit in disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...." -- (US vs Dougherty, 473 F 2d 1113, 1139 (1972)) http://www.caught.net http://fija.org --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Ingram To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: a new day Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That is soo f'ing cool... It's our mantra. Grandma huh? On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Todd Ellner wrote: > ....... > > When my teacher (Steve Plinck) was looking for a teacher his first > guru - his grandmother - only asked one question. "Stevie, can he > fight?" Until the answer was "yes" she wasn't interested no matter > what the guy's background was. > -- ============================================================================ As recently as 1972, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia said that the jury has an "...unreviewable and irreversible power... to acquit in disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...." -- (US vs Dougherty, 473 F 2d 1113, 1139 (1972)) http://www.caught.net http://fija.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:52:42 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE:Help Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mat, Here are a few tips: 1) Always review the basics (numbering systems, footwork, body mechanics, etc.) in your training sessions. 2) When practicing footwork, dont take it so literally that you start to move like a robot. You already know how to walk, just concentrate on doing it more efficiently. 3) When learning new material, always practice it as slow as you have to to perform the moves perfectly. Speed is a bi-product of accuracy. When you make a mistake in practice, remind yourself to perform the move at least 50% slower the next time you try it. 4) Strive for continuous motion whenever possible. 5) Relaxation is key. Training with too much tension is like driving a car with the brakes on. Very difficult. Hope this helps you. Best, Steve Kohn >From: "Mat Brooks" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Help >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:02:07 +0000 > >Hi everyone, >i have recently regesterd to this digest and i like it alot. But >would anyone be so kind as to send me some tips or info on this or >any other arts that a beginner like me would find usefull? if you >could it would be great. Sorry for the spelling im in a hurry. >Thank you, >Mat > >_________________________________________________________________ >Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter >to win a trip to NY >http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/ >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:39:16 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Heavy Hitters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: Ollie Batts >> So Marc, are you saying that you, and other "Heavy Hitters" can 'always' > pick one another out then? Have you never been surprised by the seemingly > innocuous-looking guy who, when push came to shove, surprised everyone? > I've personally met and talked to genuinely hard men, such as ex-SAS > Troopers, ex-Royal Marine Commando's, and more, who give nothing away in > their eyes to me. Is that because I haven't been and done the kind of things > that they have done? Is it because I am an 'outsider' that I can't see this > in their eyes? Not necessarily. It tends to have a lot to do with the environment too. I have a memory of one of the most deadly men I ever knew (with a bodycount of well over 200) sitting on his couch and dawdling a happily squealing toddler on his knee while making quacking sounds. He sensed me watching and looked up. The man was not only a father, but a grandfather, and at that exact moment, he was exactly that. He smiled at me and went back to making the small child giggle and laugh by sounding like Donald Duck. This same guy and I went through some serious shit together. I had seen him rock and roll on many occassions. In fact, he is the one who taught me how to gouge an eyeball out and rip ears off, just to get the guy's ttention -- that's how nasty he could be. But that same man, was incredibly gentle and good with children and the look in his eye was that of a dotting grandpa. It may not be so much that you can't see it, but because you aren't giving off the signals, or dealing with these guys in the environment that they need this skill, so that they are not "on." The reason you don't see it is they aren't necessarily displaying it. However, when someone enters the room that gives off the signals that switches them "on," you'll see the shift in their mindset, because it manifests in all kinds of little subtle signals. For example, I am not soley limited to the MA world. My work takes me into police, military and the shooting world. In those worlds I am regularly "pinned" (recognized and watched) until people know a) who I am or b) I demonstrate that I am not "on the hunt." Sunday night for example I had dinner with an up and coming firearms instructor/ex-cop. We met in a rather large restaurant/bar and although we had never met, nor seen recent photos, we had absolutely no problem identifying/locating each other. That happens all the time. As does when I walk into a MA school, sooner or later the head of the school will come up to see what I want. In many ways there is just a collection of habits, behaviors and awarenesses that experienced people both unconsciously and consciously do. These signals are not necessarily obvious, in fact, they can be very subtle. However, to someone who knows what they mean, they speak volumes. Another example, there is a chipolte type burrito place in the town I live in. I walked in and saw a black belt I knew from a local school sitting at a table. I sat down in another location. As I was eating a cop walked in and sat down too. As it turned out the black belt and myself left at the same time. We met by the door (and the seated cop) I laughingly pointed out that there were three strategic seats in the place. She'd taken one, I'd taken the other, the cop the third. The cop upon overhearing this laughed. I wonder, and ask you this, because I sure as hell have seen > something in the eyes of crazy men and some criminals. In these cases, I'd say the guys are either actively hunting or real close to it. In that case they are almost permantly locked into an "on" mode. Which is why so many of them suffer burn out. But the general thrust of my post is that it is pretty much all that they are. It gets a whole lot more complicated when you realize that human beings tend to be far more complex than just one or two limited definitions. Like my friend who was in grandpa mode. Quite often those individuals have added many more factors than just being good at violence. And with that, comes other issues often in the area that I described Siebert mentioning. An interesting parallel is the story I was told by my friend in Australia about the origins of the Outward Bound program. The program was developed because the Royal Navy noticed something about shipwrecks during the war. When a ship was torpedoed, sailors could be in the water for hours, if not days. However, the guys they were pulling out were the older sailors, the younger ones having drowned. Why? Well it turns out that the older guys having gone into the water, went well damn this sucks. But having been through other tough times. They knew to relax and wait it out. In doing this they floated until they were picked up. The younger guys however, went in the water and proceeded to fight. In doing so they tired themselves out. So th Outward Bound idea came about to give the younger guys experience handling extremely stressful circumstances so they wouldn't lose their heads. When I was talking about patience being a mark of a heavy hitter, that's close to what I was talking about. Just because a hard ass walks into the area doesn't mean they go into combat mode, but their antenna definately start twitching. If they do go into full "on" mode it's because they've seen something that they know is "The fecal matter is heading towards the oscolating blades" signal vs. "hey, the guy is just passing through" Does that help clarify things? M --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Liquid Armor (fwd) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net By Tonya Johnson Army News Service April 21, 2004 ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, Md. -- Liquid armor for Kevlar vests is one of the newest technologies being developed at the U.S. Army Research Laboratory to save Soldiers' lives. This type of body armor is light and flexible, which allows soldiers to be more mobile and won't hinder an individual from running or aiming his or her weapon. The key component of liquid armor is a shear thickening fluid. STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF. This combination of flowable and hard components results in a material with unusual properties. "During normal handling, the STF is very deformable and flows like a liquid. However, once a bullet or frag hits the vest, it transitions to a rigid material, which prevents the projectile from penetrating the Soldier's body," said Dr. Eric Wetzel, a mechanical engineer from the Weapons and Materials Research Directorate who heads the project team. To make liquid armor, STF is soaked into all layers of the Kevlar vest. The Kevlar fabric holds the STF in place, and also helps to stop the bullet. The saturated fabric can be soaked, draped, and sewn just like any other fabric. Wetzel and his team have been working on this technology with Dr. Norman J. Wagner and his students from the University of Delaware for three years. "The goal of the technology is to create a new material that is low cost and lightweight which offers equivalent or superior ballistic properties as compared to current Kevlar fabric, but has more flexibility and less thickness," said Wetzel. "This technology has a lot of potential." Liquid armor is still undergoing laboratory tests, but Wetzel is enthusiastic about other applications that the technology might be applied to. "The sky's the limit," said Wetzel. "We would first like to put this material in a soldier's sleeves and pants, areas that aren't protected by ballistic vests but need to remain flexible. We could also use this material for bomb blankets, to cover suspicious packages or unexploded ordnance. Liquid armor could even be applied to jump boots, so that they would stiffen during impact to support Soldiers' ankles." In addition to saving Soldiers' lives, Wetzel said liquid armor in Kevlar vests could help those who work in law enforcement. "Prison guards and police officers could also benefit from this technology," said Wetzel. "Liquid armor is much more stab resistant than conventional body armor. This capability is especially important for prison guards, who are most often attacked with handmade sharp weapons." For their work on liquid armor, Wetzel and his team were awarded the 2002 Paul A. Siple Award, the Army's highest award for scientific achievement, at the Army Science Conference. _______________________________________________ Policedo mailing list Policedo@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/policedo --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:22:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John Montes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Asian Mystique Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to mention that in my short time of receiving Escrima instruction I have only met 3 instructors. 1) my uncle Mike Ecdao 2) Garry Bowldes, and 3) John Peterson. The latter two AREN'T Filipino to my knowledge, but nevertheless are held in high regard not only by myself, but also by a few of the others who have received instruction by them. Guro Garry is well known to have superior lock and block, and from what little I saw of him hits like a mack truck! Can't wait to train with him again! And John Peterson, well, let's just say that he is sooo innovative. I actually spent a couple hours talking with him the one time I met him. That dude is like an encyclopedia of Arnis techniques! Ok, with that said, I really want to encourage others to not only not base your decision on race, but to look at what that teacher has to offer in the way of martial knowledge. I wouldn't say that I'm an afficionado by any stretch, just that I am inspired and impressed by who I've had the oppurtunity to train under so far, and luckily for me, can recognise valuable instruction as it comes to me! I will now step off of the soapbox... ~John- a 3rd gen.mestizo --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest