Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:04:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #241 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. re: training knives (john smith) 2. Re: A new day (steven ledwith) 3. Re: Blaise and Keating (steven ledwith) 4. [Policedo] Liquid Armor (fwd) (Ray Terry) (Pngreiff@aol.com) 5. Re: Blaise and Keating (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Blaise and Keating (Ken) 7. Robert (Bob) Batchelar (Cory Hanosh) 8. Re: Blaise and Keating (steven ledwith) 9. Re: A New Day (Afern27@aol.com) 10. Re: Blaise and Keating (Phil Elmore) 11. Re: Re: A New Day (Steve Ames) 12. McDojos and "Hardcore" Training (Roger Tinkoff) 13. RE: re: training knives (Leo Daher) 14. Training in McLean VA (Jared Dame) 15. Video input on Orlando.... (Walter Vorhauer) 16. Re: McDojos and "Hardcore" Training (steven ledwith) 17. Re: McDojos and "Hardcore" Training (Roger Tinkoff) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "john smith" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:23:35 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] re: training knives Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. After much hemming and hawing I decided that the sharkee was the knife that has the best balance of safety and "feel" for me at this point. Just out of curiousity, do you guys do the drills at full speed with the pointy aluminum knifes? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:50:10 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A new day To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Times are changing but have not changed. --- Ray Terry wrote: > > ... It seems that Americans > > are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will > > fall all over themselves to learn a technique from > an > > Asian "master" but you can't give them the same > info > > for free when taught by a white American. > > This day and age most Americans and Europeans are no > doubt learning > from Anglo masters/instructors. That wasn't > necessarily the case 30 or > even 15 years ago, but times have changed. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:01:21 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Frankly, from my experience with some white practitioners they failed to have an interest in the culture or simply presume things about the culture which are founded in ignorance.< True. Most serious practitioners are more concerned with what works and how it's being taught than who is teaching it or what the cultural significance is. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pngreiff@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:52:04 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] [Policedo] Liquid Armor (fwd) (Ray Terry) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net [Policedo] Liquid Armor (fwd) (Ray Terry) Ray, Thanks for the heads up on the vest R&D, I wonder if thats the same "goop" used > in those re-usable freezer packs to keep your lunch cold. Maybe somebody > will integrate the technology into FMA armor for training................. > > > Pete Reiff --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > True. Most serious practitioners are more concerned > with what works and how it's being taught than who is > teaching it or what the cultural significance is. ... ... > ... It seems that Americans > are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will > fall all over themselves to learn a technique from an > Asian "master" but you can't give them the same info > for free when taught by a white American. Your two statements seem to be at odds. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:56:02 -0700 From: Ken To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net What do you mean serious? Understanding why a tribe used a certain technique has a lot to do with cultural implications. On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 05:01:21AM -0700, steven ledwith wrote: > >Frankly, from > my experience with some white practitioners they > failed to have an > interest in the culture or simply presume things about > the culture > which are founded in ignorance.< Reply ---------------------------- > True. Most serious practitioners are more concerned > with what works and how it's being taught than who is > teaching it or what the cultural significance is. > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima -- ============================================================================ As recently as 1972, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia said that the jury has an "...unreviewable and irreversible power... to acquit in disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...." -- (US vs Dougherty, 473 F 2d 1113, 1139 (1972)) http://www.caught.net http://fija.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Cory Hanosh" To: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:29:07 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Robert (Bob) Batchelar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, I am passing this note on for a friend who wanted to let those who may have known Bob Batchelar know he passed away last weekend. The memorial wake is this Saturday, June 19th, from noon-4:00pm at the Fraternal Order of the Eagles Lodge #8, 1036 Lincoln Ave. in San Jose. If anyone wants to send condolences, please contact Pete Rabbitt at furyo_usagi@hotmail.com and he can pass along Bob's wife's mailing address and/or phone number. I believe that he trained mostly from Khalid Khan with some exposure to Angel Cabales directly. Thanks and regards, Cory Hanosh Inayan Masirib Guro Inayan Systems International www.inayaneskrima.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:19:30 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Ray Terry wrote: > > True. Most serious practitioners are more > concerned > > with what works and how it's being taught than who > is > > teaching it or what the cultural significance is. > .... > .... > > ... It seems that Americans > > are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will > > fall all over themselves to learn a technique from > an > > Asian "master" but you can't give them the same > info > > for free when taught by a white American. > > Your two statements seem to be at odds. ??? Not really, I don't consider most Americans to be serious students of the arts. For that fact most martial arts students aren't "hardcore" either. Hence the exixtence of "MC-Dojo's". > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Afern27@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:02:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: A New Day Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "I see a bit of a backlash. There's a lot of chatter about how Asian combatives are inefficient, not practical, etc. etc. etc." I've noticed this too. It stands to reason that proponents of Asian combatives would get miffed at this "chatter," especially since the only previous martial arts experience that some WMAers seem to have comes from the supposedly inferior Asian arts. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:25:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Blaise and Keating To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is not a function of being American, but of being *human*. steven ledwith wrote:Not really, I don't consider most Americans to be serious students of the arts. For that fact most martial arts students aren't "hardcore" either. Hence the exixtence of "MC-Dojo's". -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: A New Day Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:36:08 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: > I've noticed this too. It stands to reason that proponents of Asian > combatives would get miffed at this "chatter," especially since the only previous > martial arts experience that some WMAers seem to have comes from the supposedly > inferior Asian arts. How Asian are Asian martial arts in the US? This is a serious question. Americans have a tendancy to take something and modify it (sometimes drastically) to fit their own tastes and blend it with non-traditional flavors. Nothing personal against China. I spent a while in Shanghai. I like americanized "chinese" food better. I also like showing up at a club knowing I can train there without hauling wood for the temple for 2 years to prove my worthiness :) -Stev --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:56:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] McDojos and "Hardcore" Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- steven ledwith wrote: > Not really, I don't consider most Americans to be > serious students of the arts. For that fact most > martial arts students aren't "hardcore" either. > Hence > the exixtence of "MC-Dojo's". I'm not trying to defend these kinds of ultra-commercialized schools, but considering how many Americans occupy their spare time parked in front of the TV with the remote in one hand and a bucket of bon-bons in the other, I say any person who trains dilligently (by that I mean "attends class at least three times per week without fail and demonstrates a genuine desire to learn their art"), even at a McDojo, is fairly serious by comparison. I suspect that a significant number of people who train at McDojos would do (or try) "hardcore" training, but have never been exposed to any such opportunities. It's unfortunate that so many "masters" feel like the only way they can maintain a student base is to reinforce the idea that their art is the most hardcore, and discourage any activities that could prove or disprove the claim. Rog --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] re: training knives Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:06:17 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Drills, yes. Sparring, no. "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: "john smith" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: training knives Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:23:35 -0700 I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. After much hemming and hawing I decided that the sharkee was the knife that has the best balance of safety and "feel" for me at this point. Just out of curiousity, do you guys do the drills at full speed with the pointy aluminum knifes? _________________________________________________________________ --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:51:31 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Training in McLean VA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net All, I will be on travel to the McLean area starting the 21st of this month through the Wedensday and would like to train with some different energy from the east coast...Anyone know where I might be able to hook up with some night classes in the area? FMA/JKD/JJ Perferred Thanks to all, ciao, Jared --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Vorhauer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Video input on Orlando.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings to All, I just wanted to thank everyone for there input on the videos that Mr. Orlando has produced. All your information has been very informative and has definetly given me some insight. Also, since no one responded to my other questions concerning FMA instructors in the SW area Colorado, I'm assuming that there isn't anyone in area (or at least not at this time). Anyway, thank you all for your input Walter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] McDojos and "Hardcore" Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Roger Tinkoff wrote: > --- steven ledwith wrote: > > Not really, I don't consider most Americans to be > > serious students of the arts. For that fact most > > martial arts students aren't "hardcore" either. > > Hence > > the exixtence of "MC-Dojo's". > > I'm not trying to defend these kinds of > ultra-commercialized schools, but considering how > many > Americans occupy their spare time parked in front of > the TV with the remote in one hand and a bucket of > bon-bons in the other, I say any person who trains > dilligently (by that I mean "attends class at least > three times per week without fail and demonstrates a > genuine desire to learn their art"), even at a > McDojo, > is fairly serious by comparison. > > I suspect that a significant number of people who > train at McDojos would do (or try) "hardcore" > training, but have never been exposed to any such > opportunities. It's unfortunate that so many > "masters" feel like the only way they can maintain a > student base is to reinforce the idea that their art > is the most hardcore, and discourage any activities > that could prove or disprove the claim. > > Rog I have taught "hardcore" classes at a MCDOJO and saw a surprising number of people leave the school entirely after being exposed to the "hardcore" training. It usually ended up just being a group of instructors left working out on most nights. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff Subject: Re: [Eskrima] McDojos and "Hardcore" Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- steven ledwith wrote: > I have taught "hardcore" classes at a MCDOJO and saw > a > surprising number of people leave the school > entirely > after being exposed to the "hardcore" training. It > usually ended up just being a group of instructors > left working out on most nights. Students willing to put up with such a workout (on a regular basis anyway) are rare indeed. What did the students who left not like about your workouts? Rog --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest