Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:14:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #243 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: SW Colorado (WoodyTX) 2. Heavy Hitters (Ollie Batts) 3. McDojos and Steve Kohn (rob mulligan) 4. Re: McDojos and "Hardcore" Training (steven ledwith) 5. A new day? (Absolom Jones) 6. What's Hardcore? (al sardinas) 7. Re: A new day (Ray Terry) 8. Re: Pointy Aluminum Training Knives (Scott Kinney) 9. Re: A new day? (Mike Casto) 10. Re: What's Hardcore? (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "WoodyTX" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:24:01 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: SW Colorado Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I must have missed that, sorry. There's a Modern Arnis instructor in Durango at the Durango Sports Club. We had some fun goofing around on a vacation I took there. It's something like $10 for a day pass at the sports club, but you may be able to meet up with him outside the club. Sorry, I don't have any contact info, and I forgot his name.... Also, my brother lives in Telluride, and there's an ex-cop who trains for WEKAF and MMA tournaments there, but I haven't met him yet. Finally, in Grand Junction (not really SW), there is High Desert Martial Arts. I believe they do some stick work, too. Kurt > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Walter Vorhauer > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Video input on Orlando.... > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Also, since no one responded to my other questions > concerning FMA instructors in the SW area Colorado, > I'm assuming that there isn't anyone in area (or at > least not at this time). Anyway, thank you all for > your input > > Walter --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:31:07 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Heavy Hitters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc wrote: "Not necessarily. It tends to have a lot to do with the environment too. I have a memory of one of the most deadly men I ever knew (with a bodycount of well over 200) sitting on his couch and dawdling a happily squealing toddler on his knee while making quacking sounds. He sensed me watching and looked up. The man was not only a father, but a grandfather, and at that exact moment, he was exactly that. He smiled at me and went back to making the small child giggle and laugh by sounding like Donald Duck. "This same guy and I went through some serious shit together. I had seen him rock and roll on many occassions. In fact, he is the one who taught me how to gouge an eyeball out and rip ears off, just to get the guy's ttention -- that's how nasty he could be. But that same man, was incredibly gentle and good with children and the look in his eye was that of a dotting grandpa. "... "Does that help clarify things?" Well, yes and no Marc. The story of the grandfather - "one of the most deadly men I [you] ever knew" (which suggests that he is now dead?) doesn't give any indication or information as to the circumstances, situation and environment he was previously in. I'm not sure if the story was meant to impress me or not in any case. My very first thoughts were 'I wonder how he will feel (or how he felt) when he one day tells (or, perhaps, told) the story, or stories, of how he killed "well-over 200 people" to his grandchild? This, in the sure knowledge that he denied those 200 plus people the chance to play with and, perhaps, make Donald Duck noises, to their own children and grandchildren?' During the Second World War, a German machine gunner, named Hein Severloh, overlooked Omaha Beach on the day of the D-Day landings, in Normandy. It is said that, due to his favourable position, he was the first to fire on the young American troops as they attempted to come ashore. His position was so good, in fact, that he was able to fire, more-or-less continuously, for around nine hours. During which time he unleashed more than 12,000 rounds of ammunition. It is not known how many of those young men never became fathers or grandfathers as a result of Hein Severloh's endeavours on that gruesome day, but he became known as 'The Beast of Omaha Beach'. What is known is that his MG-42 played a big part, alongside the 29 other machine-gun posts, in the premature death of some 2,300 young Americans on that day. Does that make Hein Severloh a monster, or a deadly man? For he was surely deadly on that day. Of that there can be no doubt. Or was it a case of him simply doing his duty? A case of "It was either them or me", as he claims. And is someone who gouges out eyeballs and rips ears off another not starting to become a monster in order to defeat another monster perhaps? "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. For when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you" (Nietzsche) springs to mind here. Gouging out eyeballs is, mechanically, not that difficult to do. A man with no mind, or conscience, could do it easily. The young killers of the much younger Jamie Bulger's found that they could easily do that too. I guess that when people "go through all kinds of shit together" they're gonna emerge out of the other side with some of the evidence still upon and, perhaps, within them. How they carry that experience, with them throughout the remainder of the rest of their lives, is what really matters however. Pugil P.S. My own Son's Son (yes, I know what that makes me thanks!) will be one on the 10th July. I'm looking forward, not to making Donald Duck or Goofy noises at him, however. I'm rather looking forward to him learning to walk, so that I can kick his arse while he's still small enough and I'm not too old! (Only kidding!) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:25:01 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] McDojos and Steve Kohn Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That's why most of us FMA'rs teach in parks or a backyards on Sunday mornings; and wouldn't have it any other way. We teach how we want, who we want, and when we want. For free or for charge; who cares? There's no light bill to pay.                         ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] McDojos and "Hardcore" Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First I never made a judgement about Mcdojo's, I actually think that they fill a niche. And if a school wants to make a profit it almost has to be a Mcdojo IMHO. ?"What did the students who left not like about your workouts?" Unfortunately I did not get a chance to interview them before they left or should I say they just didn't come back. But our workouts usually consisted off full power/contact sparring Thai style, hard grappling with and without weapons, stick sparring with hockey helmet and hand pads, hands on assault(redsuit) type drills against single and multiple oponents, etc. The school also a sport Judo and BJJ programs. A good school over all, but it just went under because the new owner wasn't willing to be "Mcdojo" enough to keep the doors open. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Absolom Jones" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:03:15 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] A new day? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Message: 15 >From: Ray Terry >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:57:11 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [Eskrima] A new day >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > ... It seems that Americans > > are easily enthralled by "Asian Mystique" and will > > fall all over themselves to learn a technique from an > > Asian "master" but you can't give them the same info > > for free when taught by a white American. > >This day and age most Americans and Europeans are no doubt learning >from Anglo masters/instructors. That wasn't necessarily the case 30 or >even 15 years ago, but times have changed. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com Ray, It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. There is still a tendency toward favoring Asian instructors over Americans. You are right on the money regarding most Americans and Europeans learning from Anglo instructors, but there is still a very strong leaning toward the Asians. I have discuss this trend for a number of years with different instructors/diffent styles/arts in the USA and living on the East Coast - NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, and some other smaller cities because my employment requires that I travel. Another thing that comes up is a pronounced tendency for American martial artists that I have meet and talked with over the years to "dis" someone that they have not personally met and/or refuse to attend seminars featuring instructors who they do not know because... "I have never heard of him". In my travels around the East Coast, I have met some very solid and knowledgable instructors who are not featured in the big national magazines. I have had some great training sessions with people who were not 'on the road' giving seminars and camps all over the country. BTW some of these people were not Anglo, either. So my position is that we all need to step back, look critically at ourselves and then make a point to get out and train with someone new or in a different art from time to time. Best Regards Absolom _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:17:17 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] What's Hardcore? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I tend to agree with Ray that what FMA considers normal might be hardcore to some other martial artists. Can anyone here give a brief description of what is hardcore training? Does hardcore mean getting hurt? Does hardcore mean building up stamina to compete in WEKAF? Is sinawali hardcore if one gets hit on the hand? Rog and others, if possible please provide a description of what constitutes hardcore. Thanks. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A new day To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. There is still a > tendency toward favoring Asian instructors over Americans. You are right on > the money regarding most Americans and Europeans learning from Anglo > instructors, but there is still a very strong leaning toward the Asians. I > have discuss this trend for a number of years with different > instructors/diffent styles/arts in the USA and living on the East Coast - > NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, and some other smaller cities > because my employment requires that I travel. I guess we have surveyed different folks during our travels. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Scott Kinney" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:51:17 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Pointy Aluminum Training Knives Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well, first of all, they're not all that pointy. But in answer to your question: Drills : Full speed but 50% force or 50% speed and full force Sparring: the same full speed but half force or half speed and full force (or restrict targets or POV sparring....) One thing to keep in mind, is that I'm fortunate enough to have training partners that don't fly off the handle during sparring or drills. If we set up boundaries for sparring, we keep to them. So, we can (and did last week) try to work in that sneaky uppercut sort of stab when knife sparring, and then again when stick sparring. Scott Kinney Amateur Barbarian > > I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. After much hemming and > hawing I decided that the sharkee was the knife that has the best balance of > safety and "feel" for me at this point. > > Just out of curiousity, do you guys do the drills at full speed with the > pointy aluminum knifes? > > > Message: 13 > From: "Leo Daher" > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] re: training knives > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:06:17 -0400 > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Drills, yes. Sparring, no. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A new day? Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:25:20 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. There is still a > tendency toward favoring Asian instructors over Americans. You are right on > the money regarding most Americans and Europeans learning from Anglo > instructors, but there is still a very strong leaning toward the Asians. I > have discuss this trend for a number of years with different > instructors/diffent styles/arts in the USA and living on the East Coast - > NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, and some other smaller cities > because my employment requires that I travel. Absolutely. I've seen this first-hand. One of the most humorous (to me) examples of this is this. I'm going to make up some names just because I don't like talking out of school, so to speak. There's a guy I know named Andy. Andy is of Filipino heritage (though I'm not sure he's 100%, but he might be). He won his division in stickfighting competitions (modified WEKAF style) at a large event several years in a row. He's a solid FMA practitioner/instructor but, in my estimation, is nothing spectacular and teaches in a town I'll call Andytown :-) Another guy I know, an Anglo named Larry is, in my estimation, a phenomenal FMA practitioner and teaches in Larrytown - about 1.5 hours from Andytown. OK. So there's most of the backstory - except for the twist that makes it so humorous to me. A guy e-mails me about Andy. He's heard about him and how he won these competitions and he really wants to train with him. But this guy lives in Larrytown. I say, "Hey, here's Andy's contact info but you live a lot closer to Larry - and Larry is, in my opinion, a much better martial artist." The guy says, "I've been by Larry's school. He seems good. But I'd prefer to learn FMA from a Filipino." At this point, it's just a rather sad story. What made it so humorous to me was that Andy learned 90% of his FMA from an Anglo. The fact that Andy does FMA has a lot more to do with logistics and personal preference than with his cultural heritage. > > Another thing that comes up is a pronounced tendency for American martial > artists that I have meet and talked with over the years to "dis" someone > that they have not personally met and/or refuse to attend seminars featuring > instructors who they do not know because... "I have never heard of him". In > my travels around the East Coast, I have met some very solid and > knowledgable instructors who are not featured in the big national magazines. > I have had some great training sessions with people who were not 'on the > road' giving seminars and camps all over the country. BTW some of these > people were not Anglo, either. Absolutely. I've seen this a lot to. Usually, it's because the person doing the "dissing" is trying to make himself look/feel big by putting other people down. I personally think it's disgustingly pathetic. > > So my position is that we all need to step back, look critically at > ourselves and then make a point to get out and train with someone new or in > a different art from time to time. Couldn't agree more. I used to travel a fair amount for work. When I traveled, I always tried to find someone to train with. I looked for Kali and Silat first because those were what I was studying and I was always interested in seeing new systems of these or getting different perspectives. But when I couldn't find either of these, I tried to find something I hadn't previously seen so I could get some exposure to something new. One such trip took me to a small town in East Texas called Nacogdoches. I looked online and couldn't find anything except TKD in Nac. I thought, "Well, at least I can get a good workout at a TKD school - and they might actually be a good TKD school." But I had seen quite a bit of TKD - even good TKD - and was hoping to find something different. So I started asking around the discussion groups I was on. One guy says, "Well, I don't know this guy but my instructor speaks highly of him and he's in Nacogdoches. His name's Joe Lansdale and here's his website." I checked out the website - if you're curious, it's at http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan - and was kind of put off by what I saw. The website has a pretty commercial feel to it and all the instructors at the school seemed to have an abundance of rank in various arts. My first thought was, "These guys are probably a McDojo and/or 'Paper Tigers.'" But, I thought, it won't hurt to check them out. If I'm not impressed, I can visit the TKD school. I got to Nac and drove by Lansdale's school. Set back off the road a little bit in a nondescript building with a whitewashed plywood sign out front and black lettering handpainted on it, it sure didn't look much like a McDojo. I thought, "Hm. This might be interesting." Well, after meeting the instructors and students and training with them, I found that my first impression of McDojo/Paper Tigers was not only wrong but *way* wrong. I was so impressed that I trained with them every night that I was in town, kept in touch with them after I left, and, 3 years later, moved down to Nac to train with them for a year and a half. It's never good to judge a book by its cover. Or to think that anything outside of our own little world is beyond our interest or beneath our notice. Mike --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What's Hardcore? Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:42:16 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Personally, I define "hardcore" as "being dedicated enough to push the envelope to the point that you're 100% confident in your skill, ability, and heart." I might lose - but it won't be due to a lack of skill/ability/heart on my part. It will be because there were too many opponents, one or more of them was simply better than me, they had more good luck than I did (because luck is *always* a factor), or some other circumstance beyond my control or ability to prepare for. "Hardcore" means training hard to stack the deck as much in my favor as possible in the event that I ever have to use what I've trained. It means dedication to training toward perfection. However, I think safety should always be a consideration. I define an "injury" (in relation to training, anyway) as something that inhibits me in my daily tasks. In my case, that means typing and training/teaching martial arts. This means that different people will define "injury" under different parameters. But, in general, it means that a bloody nose or lip, a black eye, or a bruise isn't an "injury." A broken nose may not even be considered an injury - really more of an inconvenience. A broken bone or dislocated joint is much more likely to classify as an injury. And, of course, deep lacerations/punctures are injuries. I consider pain to be an important part of training. But I try very hard to avoid injury in training. Way I see it is that an innjury doesn't further training - it sets it back. At the same time, I think it's important for "hardcore" practitioners to occasionally push the envelope into areas where injury is a very real possibility - but I don't think this should be done every day. To me "hardcore" means preparing, as much as is possible, for real confrontations. And I'm including things like awareness/avoidance, deescalation, etc. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "al sardinas" To: Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: [Eskrima] What's Hardcore? > I tend to agree with Ray that what FMA considers normal might be hardcore to > some other martial artists. Can anyone here give a brief description of what > is hardcore training? Does hardcore mean getting hurt? Does hardcore mean > building up stamina to compete in WEKAF? Is sinawali hardcore if one gets > hit on the hand? > > Rog and others, if possible please provide a description of what constitutes > hardcore. > Thanks. > > Respectfully, > Al Sardinas > Student of Garimot System of Arnis > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest