Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #245 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Bob Orlando Videos (Steve Ames) 2. Re: Heavy Hitters (Marc Macyoung) 3. Re: Bob Orlando Videos (gints@att.net) 4. Re: whats hardcore (Karol Krauser) 5. Where to get Orlando videos.... (Walter Vorhauer) 6. SW Colorado... (Walter Vorhauer) 7. RE: Bob Orlando Videos (Andrew Evans) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:31:14 -0500 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bob Orlando Videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Fri, Jun 18, 2004 at 08:58:10PM -0400, BillyJa695@aol.com wrote: > There was some discussion recently about the Bob Orlando Silat videos and the > good reviews of his videos drew my attention. I have his Indonesian martial > art book and was quite impressed by the conceptual explanations contained in > that book. I was not aware that he had a videotape series until recently. > > The question is where can I shop for these videos ? Is there a website ? If > so, the information would be much appreciated. They are on on the paladin press website. You can link to Paladin off Orlando's site: http://www.orlandokuntao.com/books_and_videos.html -Steve --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:29:46 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Heavy Hitters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Well, yes and no Marc. The story of the grandfather - "one of the most > deadly men I [you] ever knew" (which suggests that he is now dead?) Yes, he passed away from cancer about four years ago. >doesn't > give any indication or information as to the circumstances, situation and > environment he was previously in. Three tours Vietnam PBR, machine gunner during Tet against a human wave, Detroit streetfighter, bodyguard, bouncer and a few other things. > I'm not sure if the story was meant to impress me or not in any case. No, the purpose of the story was to show you that such people are not always "on" (meaning in that mindset) which is quite often why it can be difficult to spot them. He was used as an example of not only what a heavy hitter is, but also how he can also be so much more than a one dimensional stereotype. In fact, quite a number of extremely competent people have a number of other aspects in their lives. Aspects that when they are engaged in them, might not necessarily reveal their competence with violence. In other words, yes, it can be difficult to spot them...especially when it has been a few years since the person engaged in said behavior. Having said that, when certain stimuli is present, then they immediately flip the on switch. Now the question isn't if the signals are there, but do the people around them recognize what they are in the presence of. > very first thoughts were 'I wonder how he will feel (or how he felt) when he > one day tells (or, perhaps, told) the story, or stories, of how he killed > "well-over 200 people" to his grandchild? That is something he and I spoke of many times, but only after we had established trust. The answer to your question is some were difficult, some were not. The pattern varied. But putting it simply, while his grandson would have known he was in Vietnam, the child would never know the details. More importantly, I think you will find that such people will not often discuss such issues around people who a) have not been through similiar experiences b) do not understand, and c) who would ask them such questions. In fact, most heavy hitters tend not to discuss their experiences with people because of their tendency to ask kind of question you just asked. That constant burden of not being able to talk about one's experiences because of negative reaction is part and parcel of what adds extra burden to these people. What most "civilians" fail to understand is the deep and abiding trauma that arises from such an experience is nowhere close to what they think it would be. It's easy for them to imagine where it would "be bad," but what they don't understand is how horrible it really is ...in areas that they not only can't imagine, but can't comprehend why "that" would be affected instead of "this." This, in the sure knowledge that > he denied those 200 plus people the chance to play with and, perhaps, make > Donald Duck noises, to their own children and grandchildren?' A question, which, while making perfect sense to you, fails to show much real compassion and/or understanding about the personal/psychological/emotional/spiritual issues that arise within those who have had to kill or gone through gruesome experiences. The reason being is that such questions, no matter what their motivation, (admitted or real) come across as both judgemental and on the path towards invalidation (i.e. you can dismiss him as a cold blooded, psycho or horrible immoral person for having robbed all those children of grandparents) Meanwhile conveniently ignoring the reality that those people that he "denied" life to were actively attempting to return the favor. > Does that make Hein Severloh a monster, or a deadly man? For he was surely > deadly on that day. Of that there can be no doubt. Or was it a case of him > simply doing his duty? A case of "It was either them or me", as he claims. I dunno, why don't you ask Audey Murphy. Maybe Sgt York? Colonel David Hackworth? Sometimes the line between a monster and a hero can blur with a bit of sophistry -- especially from from those what have never "been there." > And is someone who gouges out eyeballs and rips ears off another not > starting to become a monster in order to defeat another monster perhaps? > "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not > become a monster. For when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks > into you" (Nietzsche) springs to mind here. Gouging out eyeballs is, > mechanically, not that difficult to do. A man with no mind, or conscience, > could do it easily. The young killers of the much younger Jamie Bulger's > found that they could easily do that too. Absolutely, the problem is that the above words come nowhere near to addressing the depth of the issue. While it is easy to make such "puddle profundaties," you might want to consider the line out of Pirates of the Caribbean. Johnny Depp says "The deepest level of hell is reserved for tratiorous mutineers" and the cursed pirate replies "You know nothing of hell" You have no idea of the constant war between the beast that awakes within you and trying to rise above it. All the while it seeks to drag you down.There is a reason they send young men to war, because they have no idea what a lifetime means. They see only the moment before them, not the lifetime ahead. It is easy to do things when you are young and eternity extends into only next week. And pain, as long as you are only concerned about yourself and dogmatic about how "right" you are in your actions, is "easy" to hold off. But after a while, when you slow down, when you start to think about other things, then is when you discover that like broken bones, the repercussions stay with you for a lifetime. And yes, I have known good men and I have known "monsters." What's worse is I have seen men who did these things in the name of good/duty/honor (and countless other less noble reasons) slowly slide into the darkness because they could not cope with the long term costs. I have known too many people w ho have lost the war between the beast that was awakened and the struggles of living a good life. They not only could not rise above it, but they couldn't even live with it. > I guess that when people "go through all kinds of shit together" they're > gonna emerge out of the other side with some of the evidence still upon and, > perhaps, within them. How they carry that experience, with them throughout > the remainder of the rest of their lives, is what really matters however. *sigh* you have no idea the cost, but let's get back to your original question. Simply stated, there is no mystical, unseen "mark" that only other heavy hitters can recognize. It is not a "members only" club of secret hand shakes and signals that only those who have been initiated into hell can flash to each other. Having said that however, there are definate signals, behaviors, modes of consciousness and awarenesses that do exist among those who have survived -- especially if . Yes they are immediately recognized by those who have them. They are also however, equally recognizable to those who have extensive dealings with them and/or people who pay attention to small subtle cues. These cues do have very specific and legitimate significance and they are both learnable and recognizable to those who have learned. What is even more important however, is that there are certain mindsets, levels of consciousness and experience that, literally, cannot see these signs. If "heavy hitters" are on channel 9, these people are channel 2. They are set to recieve an entirely different set of signals. It doesn't mean that the other channels aren't being broadcast. In a very real sense, it is kind of like standing on one side of a house, until you change where you are standing, you won't be able see the other side. That doesn't mean the other side doesn't exist however. This is why I suggested that you take a look at Dr. Al Siebert's the Survivor Personality. Siebert himself realized that it is not a particular skill set, method or technique, but rather a general collection of personality traits. Personality traits that are indeed recognizable if you know the general pattern to look for. Contrawise, if you are looking for a specific collection of techniques that identify these people, it will seem like people are talking about there being somekind of mythical, unseen juju going on that only those initiated can see within each other. It's not that. It's a whole lot more. M --__--__-- Message: 3 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:46:28 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando Videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > BillyJa695@aol.com wrote: > There was some discussion recently about the Bob Orlando Silat videos and the ... > The question is where can I shop for these videos ? Is there a website ? If > so, the information would be much appreciated. http://www.orlandokuntao.com/home.html --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:40:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Karol Krauser To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: whats hardcore Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It’s been interesting to read different peoples opinions on “Hardcore Training” here on the digest. I think that Hardcore is a combination of practical self defense training in combination with pushing ones self to there physical and mental, and spiritual, limits. It constitutes a bonding of sorts since you can’t really allow someone to push you to these limits unless there is a certain amount of trust there. Sparring with striking, locks, throw, as well as close range elbows, knees, and ground work to the point of submission or exhaustion and then having your partner or instructor pull you up off the ground and make you keep going is a great way to experience this… is it for everyone..? Probably not… I’ve been fortunate enough to help organize some testing session were we’ve able to push the students to this point and then probably more. Does puking in a bucket in the corner and then crawling back to the mat constitute hardcore? Maybe and it’s interesting to see the different responses to this stress level, both physically and mentally. I think that’s one way of looking at hardcore training. On the other hand I had some sparring session in Cebu when even through WEKAF head gear I wound up with more lumps on my head than a bugs bunny cartoon character! That is another aspect of hardcore training though more mental. Knowing you are going to take some serious lumps and still going out to train Ex: gathering of the pack etc…could be classified as nothing less than hardcore.. I’ve also found that what some people classify as hardcore might not even raise an eyebrow from others… Is it training to the point of physical exhaustion? Training with full physical and emotional intensity? Or is it training knowing that you might very well take the beating of your life and still go out on the matt willing to give it all you’ve got…? Maybe all of the above… Then I guess “Hardcore is really in the mind of the participant isn’t it…?” Karol "Ungoy" Krauser __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:11:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Vorhauer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Where to get Orlando videos.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Brian J., Ya, you can order his videos through his website, http://www.orlandokuntao.com, or if you want you could order them through Paladin Press, and I think there website is http://www.paladin-press.com. I believe paladin has a 'new' set of 4 videos that Orlando is putting out, however paladin press has only the 1st video, with the remaining 3 soon to follow. Hope this helps! Walter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Vorhauer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] SW Colorado... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings to All, Thank you all for responding, I'll get down to Durango as soon as possible and definetly do some follow-up on that Mordern Arnis instructor there. Again, thank you all for your help and assistance. Walter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "Andrew Evans" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Bob Orlando Videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Brian, A good source of Bob Orlando's materials is from his website at http://www.orlandokuntao.com or Paladin Press at http://paladin-press.com I have have the privilege and honor of training with Mr. Orlando. When it comes to leg trapping, he is the best I have seen. I highly endorse his products and seminars. He is also an excellent instructor and friendly person. Great guy! Many practitioners/instructors are in it for financial reasons, not Mr. Orlando. He trains from the heart and makes it a way of life. I just hope more of us can follow his example. Some already do. (The discussion about McDojos must have put me in an anti-commercialism mood and I apologize for going off on a tangent.) Regards, Andrew Brian Johns wrote: I was not aware that he had a videotape series until recently. The question is where can I shop for these videos ? Is there a website ? If so, the information would be much appreciated. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest