Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:01:52 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #246 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Escrima in Taiwan? (Thomas Argiro) 2. Re: Hardcore training/WEKAF headgear (Kel620@aol.com) 3. RE: A new day? (Absolom Jones) 4. Hard Core, and Heavy Hitters (eric.taimanglo@us.army.mil) 5. Re: Bob Orlando Videos (BillyJa695@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Argiro" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:40:54 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Escrima in Taiwan? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a couple of months I will be moving to Taiwan. Does anyone know if there are any schools or arnis, escrima, or kali instructors there? Thank you. Tom --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:46:10 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Hardcore training/WEKAF headgear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/20/2004 6:39:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: On the other hand I had some sparring session in Cebu when even through WEKAF head gear I wound up with more lumps on my head than a bugs bunny cartoon character! The top of those masks don't seem to fully soften a #12 strike. Especially when it's swung by someone in the heavyweight class. The same thing has happened to me a couple of times in the past. You don't really know your head is lumped up until you take off the mask. :-) K. Williams --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Absolom Jones" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:05:40 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: A new day? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Message: 7 >From: Ray Terry wrote: >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A new day > > > It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. There is still a > > tendency toward favoring Asian instructors over Americans. You are >right on > > the money regarding most Americans and Europeans learning from Anglo > > instructors, but there is still a very strong leaning toward the Asians. > I > > have discuss this trend for a number of years with different > > instructors/diffent styles/arts in the USA and living on the East Coast >- > > NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, and some other smaller cities > > because my employment requires that I travel. > >I guess we have surveyed different folks during our travels. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com > >-- __--__-- Agreed and that really is not an issue for me. Part of the difference might be between living on the different coasts. I never did any sort of formal survey either. It is simply a matter of reporting on the general consensus of discussions over a 10+ period of years. >-- __--__-- > >Message: 9 >From: "Mike Casto" wrote: >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A new day? > > > It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. There is still a > > tendency toward favoring Asian instructors over Americans. You are >right > > on the money regarding most Americans and Europeans learning from Anglo > > instructors, but there is still a very strong leaning toward the Asians. > > I have discuss this trend for a number of years with different > > instructors/diffent styles/arts in the USA and living on the East Coast >- > > NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, DC, and some other smaller cities > > because my employment requires that I travel. > >Absolutely. I've seen this first-hand. One of the most humorous (to me) >examples of this is this. I'm going to make up some names just because I >don't like talking out of school, so to speak. There's a guy I know named >Andy. Andy is of Filipino heritage (though I'm not sure he's 100%, but he >might be). He won his division in stickfighting competitions (modified >WEKAF >style) at a large event several years in a row. He's a solid FMA >practitioner/instructor but, in my estimation, is nothing spectacular and >teaches in a town I'll call Andytown :-) Another guy I know, an Anglo named >Larry is, in my estimation, a phenomenal FMA practitioner and teaches in >Larrytown - about 1.5 hours from Andytown. OK. So there's most of the >backstory - except for the twist that makes it so humorous to me. > >A guy e-mails me about Andy. He's heard about him and how he won these >competitions and he really wants to train with him. But this guy lives in >Larrytown. I say, "Hey, here's Andy's contact info but you live a lot >closer >to Larry - and Larry is, in my opinion, a much better martial artist." > >The guy says, "I've been by Larry's school. He seems good. But I'd prefer >to >learn FMA from a Filipino." > >At this point, it's just a rather sad story. What made it so humorous to me >was that Andy learned 90% of his FMA from an Anglo. The fact that Andy does >FMA has a lot more to do with logistics and personal preference than with >his cultural heritage. That maqkes sense to me and I firmly believe that most people train within the art/system/style and with a particular instructor initially because of proximity of location from the student's home. The second or thrid instructor for the same student is usually chosen because of a developed interest. > > Another thing that comes up is a pronounced tendency for American >martial > > artists that I have meet and talked with over the years to "dis" someone > > that they have not personally met and/or refuse to attend seminars > > featuring instructors who they do not know because... "I have never >heard of him". > > In my travels around the East Coast, I have met some very solid and > > knowledgable instructors who are not featured in the big national > > magazines. I have had some great training sessions with people who were >not 'on the > > road' giving seminars and camps all over the country. BTW some of these > > people were not Anglo, either. >Absolutely. I've seen this a lot to. Usually, it's because the person doing >the "dissing" is trying to make himself look/feel big by putting other >people down. I personally think it's disgustingly pathetic. You will not get any disagreement from me on either point. > > So my position is that we all need to step back, look critically at > > ourselves and then make a point to get out and train with someone new or > > in a different art from time to time. >Couldn't agree more. I used to travel a fair amount for work. When I >traveled, I always tried to find someone to train with. I looked for Kali >and Silat first because those were what I was studying and I was always >interested in seeing new systems of these or getting different >perspectives. >But when I couldn't find either of these, I tried to find something I >hadn't >previously seen so I could get some exposure to something new. One such >trip >took me to a small town in East Texas called Nacogdoches. I looked online >and couldn't find anything except TKD in Nac. I thought, "Well, at least I >can get a good workout at a TKD school - and they might actually be a good >TKD school." But I had seen quite a bit of TKD - even good TKD - and was >hoping to find something different. So I started asking around the >discussion groups I was on. One guy says, "Well, I don't know this guy but >my instructor speaks highly of him and he's in Nacogdoches. His name's Joe >Lansdale and here's his website." Sometimes I have found that instructors/school operators DID NOT want to accept me as a guest student at their school and the art/stsyem/style was not the issue! It was all about a particular, individual instructors approach to to teaching. I would simply call anouther school in the general area and try again. Eventually there was was always someone who would welcome me to come and train. I did not try to hide my background from my host because i view that as an insult to the person accepting my request to train at his/her school. >I checked out the website - if you're curious, it's at >http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan - and was kind of put off by what I >saw. The website has a pretty commercial feel to it and all the instructors >at the school seemed to have an abundance of rank in various arts. My first >thought was, "These guys are probably a McDojo and/or 'Paper Tigers.'" But, >I thought, it won't hurt to check them out. If I'm not impressed, I can >visit the TKD school. > >I got to Nac and drove by Lansdale's school. Set back off the road a little >bit in a nondescript building with a whitewashed plywood sign out front and >black lettering handpainted on it, it sure didn't look much like a McDojo. >I >thought, "Hm. This might be interesting." > >Well, after meeting the instructors and students and training with them, I >found that my first impression of McDojo/Paper Tigers was not only wrong >but >*way* wrong. I was so impressed that I trained with them every night that I >was in town, kept in touch with them after I left, and, 3 years later, >moved >down to Nac to train with them for a year and a half. > >It's never good to judge a book by its cover. Or to think that anything >outside of our own little world is beyond our interest or beneath our >notice. > >Mike Thanks for thre head's up and I can confess to having a couple of similar incidents and failures of judgement. But martial arts is all about learning, isn't it? Some of what you learn is about yourself! Absolom >-- __--__-- > >Message: 10 >From: "Mike Casto" >To: >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What's Hardcore? >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:42:16 -0400 >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Personally, I define "hardcore" as "being dedicated enough to push the >envelope to the point that you're 100% confident in your skill, ability, >and >heart." I might lose - but it won't be due to a lack of skill/ability/heart >on my part. It will be because there were too many opponents, one or more >of >them was simply better than me, they had more good luck than I did (because >luck is *always* a factor), or some other circumstance beyond my control or >ability to prepare for. "Hardcore" means training hard to stack the deck as >much in my favor as possible in the event that I ever have to use what I've >trained. It means dedication to training toward perfection. > >However, I think safety should always be a consideration. I define an >"injury" (in relation to training, anyway) as something that inhibits me in >my daily tasks. In my case, that means typing and training/teaching martial >arts. This means that different people will define "injury" under different >parameters. But, in general, it means that a bloody nose or lip, a black >eye, or a bruise isn't an "injury." A broken nose may not even be >considered >an injury - really more of an inconvenience. A broken bone or dislocated >joint is much more likely to classify as an injury. And, of course, deep >lacerations/punctures are injuries. > >I consider pain to be an important part of training. But I try very hard to >avoid injury in training. Way I see it is that an innjury doesn't further >training - it sets it back. At the same time, I think it's important for >"hardcore" practitioners to occasionally push the envelope into areas where >injury is a very real possibility - but I don't think this should be done >every day. > >To me "hardcore" means preparing, as much as is possible, for real >confrontations. And I'm including things like awareness/avoidance, >deescalation, etc. > >Mike > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "al sardinas" >To: >Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:17 AM >Subject: [Eskrima] What's Hardcore? > > > > I tend to agree with Ray that what FMA considers normal might be >hardcore >to > > some other martial artists. Can anyone here give a brief description of >what > > is hardcore training? Does hardcore mean getting hurt? Does hardcore >mean > > building up stamina to compete in WEKAF? Is sinawali hardcore if one >gets > > hit on the hand? > > > > Rog and others, if possible please provide a description of what >constitutes > > hardcore. > > Thanks. > > > > Respectfully, > > Al Sardinas > > Student of Garimot System of Arnis > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > >-- __--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima >http://eskrima-fma.net >Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima > >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com >Standard disclaimers apply. >Remember September 11. > >End of Eskrima Digest _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:30:16 -0700 From: eric.taimanglo@us.army.mil To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Hard Core, and Heavy Hitters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On the subject of hardcore: Mr. MacYoung has talked about the reasons people walk onto the mat; spiritual development, competition/physical fitness, and self-protection skills. (I've probably botched the categories, my apologies, Marc.) Anyway, it is a mastery or possession of all of these facets of the fighting arts that McDojos promise the consumer, which he says, is not possible. No one system has it all. I have to agree. One only has to point to the example of the female in the TaeBo commercials who said that the calisthenics gave her self defense skills. But McDojos, as much as the hardcore population ridicules them, serve up their "customers" opportunites to develop attributes besides those needed for a pucker situation, and are quite good at it. I also think that these overlap each other to a certain extent, if the student delves deep enough into the study of his/her chosen art, a process I like to call "turning depth perception into depth of perception". However, I be lieve that this is accomplished solely on the part of the individual; no Sifu or Guro can do this. As you read this, young men and women are swearing into the Military. Some are joining for college money, a chance to attain a trade or skill, travel, etc. There are very few soldiers I meet today who say they joined because they want to fight terrorism, because of 9/11. And there are very few who even attempt to fight terrorism as part of an elite cadre such as the 75th Rangers or the Special Forces. Yet they all walked through the same portal of Initial Entry Training. I've met a lot of martial hobbyists who were good in competition, nice people, but these are the norm, while the hardcore martial artists I met in parks and who I practice out here with are few in number. As it is with "civilized society", so it is with the military. One road that is tread by different people with different goals. The trouble arises when people confuse the pursuit of say, spiritual development, with the development of self-protection, or point sparring with street fighting. Or, in my case, some NCO's and officers confuse powerpoint presentations and creased, sharp uniforms with the dirty business that is combat. Nuff said. 23 days and a wake up to the freedom bird in Kuwait!!!! ----SPC Eric Taimanglo, 1st Armored Division --__--__-- Message: 5 From: BillyJa695@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:49:38 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando Videos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To those of you who have given me the information with regard to Mr. Orlando's videos, either privately or through this forum, my many thanks. Take care, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest