Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 03:01:49 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #258 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Backtracking (Marc Denny) 2. Martial arts lands wireless blow (gints@att.net) 3. Re: we are just like you (Eric vom Lehn) 4. Re: Yaw-Yan ArDigma Camp (The Comedy and Magic of Wanlu) (Bobby Indas) 5. Re: Backtracking (abreton@juno.com) 6. RE: Re: we are just like you (Domagas MgySgt Gergorio) 7. Re: Martial arts lands wireless blow (Ray Terry) 8. RE: Re: fo those in service (Stephen luna) 9. Iraqi karambit (Bill McGrath) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:56:09 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Backtracking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: A quick backtrack to catch up on two posts to which I've been meaning to respond: Todd Ellner wrote: "Gladiator vs. Troy , , , "Troy" by a knockout." I just gotta say that this analysis was at a pretty good level -- I've seen thought pieces in noted publications less observant and thoughtful than this one. If you can dash something like this off for the ED you are not without talent. And Andy graciously responded to my nip at his tail. I've not the time or inclination to respond to all the points, but would like to offer what I think to be a relevant observation in response to his political point about "women as property" not resonating in these times: Yes women were "property" AND what is unnoted for reasons beyond my ken, men were disposable. Just who do we think was doing all the dying on the plains of Troy for 10 years? Furthermore men were bound by codes and standards of behavior-- note for example Odyseuss's response to Achilles when asked why he fought for Agamemnon-- he did it for his kingdom-- and thus gave him 10 years of his life to the war and some 20 more to get home. 30 years is a long time--especially in those days. And that's what a king had to do. Life was hard for everyone. The Adventure Continues Crafty Dog PS: A fine day at the Dog Brothers Gathering yesterday. More on this as the dust settles. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima Digest) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:27:06 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Martial arts lands wireless blow Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "One of the most popular martial arts in the world is being brought into the 21st century using wireless technology. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837139.stm Let the opinions flow. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 06:33:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric vom Lehn To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: we are just like you Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net While I hold to my first post, I do apologize for any disrespect to the men and women who serve this country. That was never my intention. Eric --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Bobby Indas" To: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:09:07 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Yaw-Yan ArDigma Camp (The Comedy and Magic of Wanlu) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GM Nap Fernandez is really at it -- no more selected few... what elses' new. > The New YAW-YAN ARDIGMA BOOT CAMP > Bob --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:56:56 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Backtracking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You see, now I gotta reply to that one... In terms of disposable males, I think that's true with a few "howevers" 1) Read "The Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell or "Why Men are the Way they Are" by the same author. I know they sound like Oprah book-of-the-month selections (and they're not about male drumming circles either), but they're not. They are well written and counter a lot of the feminist dogma that permeated the schools that I (at 37 years old) went to. One of his points are that men are *still* viewed as disposable. So in the context of my original point, I think your run-of-the-mill audience would understand that better than the change in attitudes toward women because the contrast is not as great. 2) the Illiad has a lot of hero fighting hero one-on-one. The movie kept it to Ajax v. Hector and Achilles v. Hector. Yes, there were a lot of boats implying a lot of men, and the grunts on whose back the war was fought have been forgotten by history, but that's not the way it's written. Reading back on my post, I was skipping too much from the movie to the book. As I said, the book colors my perception. For example, not in the book but in the myth, Achilles knows he is going to die at Troy, so he tries to get out of it by dressing as a woman (Odysseus tricks him into revealing himself). Do you think if they put that in the movie, our perceptions of the warrior would change a little? Hollywood took away some and added some - particularly changing Agammemnon (as you mentioned), Helen, and Chryssalis. Because of those changes, I think they change the basic nature of Achilles. That made the movie "differently" enjoyable to me because (again, as you said) they snuck some Hollywood liberalism into it. The things they kept ("your name will be renown"), I don't think modern people can relate to as well (that's a whole other conversation). So my answer to the original question remains: I think most audiences related more to the admittedly broad-stroked themes of Gladiator than Troy, and that separates a movie that people respect from a blockbuster. All this, though, is not a major point of the two movies for me. I think the "Troy" writers, while somewhat restricted by the Illiad and surrounding myth, could have developed the character of Achilles better sooner. They resort to other characters telling you what a badass he is and I think go somewhat overboard in pitting his character against Agammemnon (the argument in the first book of the Illiad aside, the first line of the epic is about 'wrath' not 'animosity'). The first fight you see him stride confidently into battle and win a decisive one stroke victory, but (as someone pointed out) you know he's invincible so you wonder how much of that is skill. On the other hand, in the forest scene we see Russel Crowes' character who can evade someone with a sword behind him, has mastered the minutiae of his craft ("the cold ... sometimes it makes the blade stick") and even things you think would be non-essential training like throwing the sword 30-40 yards to kill the soldier on horseback. Those actions establish the warrior nature of his character and I don't see a similar parallel in Troy. This has been an interesting conversation (not that it's necessarily ended) and one that I don't often get to have (so thanks Ray for allowing us to go so off topic). It's rare you find a person who is conversant, but not 'academic'. I don't think I'll be applying for that movie critic job just yet, though. Andy -- "Marc Denny" wrote: Woof All: And Andy graciously responded to my nip at his tail. I've not the time or inclination to respond to all the points, but would like to offer what I think to be a relevant observation in response to his political point about "women as property" not resonating in these times: Yes women were "property" AND what is unnoted for reasons beyond my ken, men were disposable. Just who do we think was doing all the dying on the plains of Troy for 10 years? Furthermore men were bound by codes and standards of behavior-- note for example Odyseuss's response to Achilles when asked why he fought for Agamemnon-- he did it for his kingdom-- and thus gave him 10 years of his life to the war and some 20 more to get home. 30 years is a long time--especially in those days. And that's what a king had to do. Life was hard for everyone. The Adventure Continues Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Domagas MgySgt Gergorio To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: we are just like you Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:13:45 +0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net APOLOGY ACCEPTED.... SEMPER FI, MASTER GUNNERY SERGEANT GREGG DOMAGAS I MEF CE, CAMP FALLUJAH, IRAQ -----Original Message----- From: Eric vom Lehn [mailto:eric_vomlehn@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:33 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: we are just like you While I hold to my first post, I do apologize for any disrespect to the men and women who serve this country. That was never my intention. Eric --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Martial arts lands wireless blow To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "One of the most popular martial arts in the world is being brought into the 21st century using wireless technology. " > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3837139.stm > > Let the opinions flow. I sincerely hope this works. TKD was doing full contact events 45 years ago. True there are rules, but then there are rules in most every type of full contact event we see. Where this can help is in setting the force level up high enough so that a game of tag doesn't ensue. It used to be fairly difficult to score a point. In the more recent elite level (Olympic level players) competition I've seen, the judges are scoring points that are exhibiting less and less power. It used to be that if your opponent wasn't significantly displaced, knocked down or knocked out, the point didn't score. Now... However a good step occurred when they went to electronic scoreboard scoring. The fighters and spectators can view in real time what points have scored and the current match score. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stephen luna" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: fo those in service Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:21:06 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Anyone who thinks this war in Iraq is futile, is a FOOL.  I'm tired of all the crap that we hear about on thw news about thew war in Iraq, they never show the good stuff.  My brother USMC Cpl. Luna LAV.  He served in the war and he told me about how when they went in and lkiberated a town the poeple literally came out and threw parades in their honor and that they were soo gratefull.  Ther are other stories but anyways.  My point is this this wa is not futile do you think it futile to savea people from an evil dictator or a modern day hitler.  And besides did u think it would be an "over night" transition to peace it's not like we know where all the insurgents are hiding so we can go and take them out.  We shouldn't let the actions of the minority sway our determination to conquer the evil.  Also thinking that and saying things like that is just a slap in the face of the service men who gave their lives and those who are putting thier life on the line every day. ~Stephen Luna ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From ‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting Married. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:23:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill McGrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Iraqi karambit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Eric wrote: pretty much everyone now carries a karambit like blade, sold to us by Iraqi vendors << Hey Eric, Sounds interesting. What's it called and is it possible to send a picture? God Bless and Keep Safe, Tuhon Bill McGrath __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest