Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #259 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Kris Cutlery blades? (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 2. Backtracking 3 (Marc Denny) 3. On soldiers & civilians (Joe Hironaka) 4. Re: Kris Cutlery blades? (virgil quitson) 5. Re: Backtracking 3 (abreton@juno.com) 6. Re: Kris Cutlery blades? (Ray Terry) 7. Re: On soldiers & civilians (Roger Tinkoff) 8. Re: On soldiers & civilians (Phil Elmore) 9. Re: On soldiers & civilians (Milt Tinkoff) 10. Re: On soldiers & civilians (Roger Tinkoff) 11. Re: On soldiers & civilians (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:12:36 +0300 From: To: Subject: [Eskrima] Kris Cutlery blades? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Any comments/opinions/experiences about these blades? http://www.kriscutlery.com/company/product_info/product_info.html Especially Filipino ones, of course: http://www.kriscutlery.com/philippine/index.html - Marko --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:55:55 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Backtracking 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof Andy: "In terms of disposable males, I think that's true with a few "howevers" 1) Read "The Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell or "Why Men are the Way they Are" by the same author. I know they sound like Oprah book-of-the-month selections (and they're not about male drumming circles either), but they're not. They are well written and counter a lot of the feminist dogma that permeated the schools that I (at 37 years old) went to." Actually Farrell's WMATWTA is where I first got the idea LOL. I agree that the book is very interesting and makes plenty of good points (some of which I have incorporated into my own thinking as you intuited here.) That said, IMHO Farrell is often a whiny kitty. BTW, in a thread on the Dog Brothers Martial Arts public forum about women in combat I mentioned the example of the USS Arcadia and its 22% pregnancy rate during the Gulf War and someone challenged the datum and I went to Farrell's book for the citation (btw folks, unlike just about anything one reads, this one gives sources for all data asserted) and posted it on the thread. One of the woman who was taking a position different than mine came back with the apparent fact that Farrell has a substantial history as a pedophile-- was a founder of NAMBLA! (National Ass'n of Man-Boy Love). Of course in a logical Martian sense this rejoinder was irrelevant to the point being made (the veracity of the datum on the USS Arcadia), but it was not without its effectiveness as a debating technique-- in a Venusian sort of way ;-) ", , , As I said, the book colors my perception. For example, not in the book but in the myth, Achilles knows he is going to die at Troy, so he tries to get out of it by dressing as a woman (Odysseus tricks him into revealing himself). Do you think if they put that in the movie, our perceptions of the warrior would change a little?" I had forgotten that detail from The Iliad. Regardless, I thought the movie handled the matter of his near invincibility by saying that "Yes, this is what people said, but it's not what Achilles thought" (note his rejoinder to the question with a reference to his wearing armor) and it is the coincidence that when he is found dead, there is an arrow in his , , , ahem, , , achilles tendon that led to the legend. > > This has been an interesting conversation (not that it's necessarily ended) and one that I don't often get to have (so thanks Ray for allowing us to go so off topic). It's rare you find a person who is conversant, but not 'academic'. I don't think I'll be applying for that movie critic job just yet, though. > > Andy I too have found it interesting, but forgive me for noting that it does not extend to proofreading-- read again and you will see the compliment for movie critic was to Todd Ellner LOL Yip! Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joe Hironaka" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:19:56 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell Joe --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: virgil quitson Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kris Cutlery blades? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good display swords and ok for practice if you're just doing drills. Not good for heavy impact (the swords), I've tried. marko.ronkainen@nokia.com wrote:Any comments/opinions/experiences about these blades? http://www.kriscutlery.com/company/product_info/product_info.html Especially Filipino ones, of course: http://www.kriscutlery.com/philippine/index.html - Marko _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:47:25 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Backtracking 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net -- "Marc Denny" wrote: >Actually Farrell's WMATWTA is where I first got the idea LOL. That's funny... >That said, IMHO Farrell is often a whiny kitty. Yeah he's like one small step away from ... something. It's a good book to counter some dogma out there, even though evidently the author has some problems (I didn't know that whatever the heck you said that organization was existed). >it is the coincidence that when he is found dead, there is an arrow in his , , , ahem, , , achilles tendon that led to the legend. Just restricting myself to the movie portrayal, I like the way they did that ... almost. What I liked is that Achilles fighting style was very evasive (maybe the most evasive movie style outside KF flicks), so the shot to the A tendon hampered his mobility and therefore he was more vulnerable (remember in the movie he dies from the arrows in the chest, but he rips them out, kind of the moveimaker implying "here's where they got the legend"). What I didn't like was the movie's need to enhance Paris' stature. I think it should have been a lucky shot and not the result of Paris practicing archery (the scene is actually not in the Illiad, if my memory serves me correctly, but in the myth). Andy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kris Cutlery blades? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Any comments/opinions/experiences about these blades? > > http://www.kriscutlery.com/company/product_info/product_info.html > > Especially Filipino ones, of course: > > http://www.kriscutlery.com/philippine/index.html I have several, all good blades. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff Subject: Re: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I see this quote on many military/martial arts websites, but none of them say where it actually came from. I'm curious as to the context in which Orwell made this statement, since (after having read his books and other writings) it's doubtful he meant it as a justification of unrestrained military violence. Rog --- Joe Hironaka wrote: > "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only > because rough men stand > ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In his 1942 essay on Rudyard Kipling, Orwell wrote, "[Kipling] sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them." In his 'Notes on Nationalism' (1945) he wrote: "Those who "abjure" violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf." The meaning is the same -- and it is not, nor was it ever, a "justification [for] unrestrained military violence." It is the recognition that every pacifist alive today IS alive today because someone who was willing to use force made it possible for the pacifist to denounce the use of force in self-defense. - Phil www.themartialist.com Roger Tinkoff wrote: I see this quote on many military/martial arts websites, but none of them say where it actually came from. I'm curious as to the context in which Orwell made this statement, since (after having read his books and other writings) it's doubtful he meant it as a justification of unrestrained military violence. -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 9 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians From: Milt Tinkoff Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:23:55 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>>>> "Rog" == Roger Tinkoff writes: >> "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men >> stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell Rog> I see this quote on many military/martial arts websites, but none of Rog> them say where it actually came from. I'm curious as to the context Rog> in which Orwell made this statement, since (after having read his Rog> books and other writings) it's doubtful he meant it as a Rog> justification of unrestrained military violence. It's bogus. -milt http://wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." * Alternative: "We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us." * Notes: allegedly from Rough Men by George Orwell. There is no evidence in existence that Orwell ever wrote or uttered either of these versions of this idea. While these do bear some similarity to a comment made in an essay that Orwell wrote on Rudyard Kipling, the two statements above are considered to be illegitimate by Orwell scholars. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:07:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff Subject: Re: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Phil Elmore wrote: > It is the recognition that every > pacifist alive today IS alive today because someone > who was willing to use force made it possible for > the pacifist to denounce the use of force in > self-defense. What most pacifists denounce is the use of force to solve political problems. I doubt you'll find too many people who would refuse to use force in self-defense against somebody who attacked them for no reason. Rog --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] On soldiers & civilians To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > It is the recognition that every > > pacifist alive today IS alive today because someone > > who was willing to use force made it possible for > > the pacifist to denounce the use of force in > > self-defense. > > What most pacifists denounce is the use of force to > solve political problems. I doubt you'll find too > many people who would refuse to use force in > self-defense against somebody who attacked them for no > reason. Those I know (COs, etc) are willing to use force, just not deadly force... even for self-defense purposes. Beats me... (pun intended) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest