Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:03:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #261 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Iraq war (Bill McGrath) 2. Pacifism (Marc Macyoung) 3. Re: How did Achilles die in "The Iliad" ? (Scott Kinney) 4. Re: Freedom (al sardinas) 5. Re: Re: Hardcore training (Catalino Garcia Jr) 6. Re: mottos, motivators, etc. (Kes41355@aol.com) 7. Re: Orwell quote (Todd Ellner) 8. Crappola (eric.taimanglo@us.army.mil) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:14:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill McGrath To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Iraq war Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just my 2 cents on the Iraq war and the aftermath. I was watching a story on the History channel the other night about the de-nazification of Germany. It seems that we were under attack in Germany by nazi guerrillas for more than two years after the war officially ended. We fought back hard. When we captured a guerrilla we didn’t put him in prison, we put him up against a wall opposite a firing squad. The American people seemed to accept the war's aftermath better then, compared to this generation’s reaction to Iraq. But then the “Greatest Generation” was raised during the Great Depression while the “Me Generation” was raised on MTV and Oprah. I have two new articles on the Iraq war on my website. Go to the contents page (http://pekiti.com/contents.html) and scroll down to “In the News” and hit Iraq articles 1 & 2. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:20:15 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Pacifism Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The meaning is the same -- and it is not, nor was it ever, a "justification [for] unrestrained military violence." It is the recognition that every pacifist alive today IS alive today because someone who was willing to use force made it possible for the pacifist to denounce the use of force in self-defense. > - Phil > What most pacifists denounce is the use of force to > solve political problems. I doubt you'll find too > many people who would refuse to use force in > self-defense against somebody who attacked them for no > reason. > Rog Ummm...ummm....errrr....Rog, I hate to say this, but you are thinking WAY to logically here. And that is a term that gets really shaky around most "self-proclaimed pacifists" It doesn't have to make sense, it's what they believe and obviously you are wrong for not believing the same. And don't even think of bringing in incontinent facts, it's what they believe. In response to this attitude I often use PJ O'Rourke's summation in "Give War a Chance: when he was discussing the Anti-death penalty/Pro-abortion stance of liberals: A callous pragmatist might favor both the death penalty and abortion. A devout Christian would sanction neither. But it takes years of therapy to arrive at the liberal point of view" Rog, when you are talking most pacifists that I have met, you're looking at "years of therapy" thinking here. (and folks, if you want to flame me for using this O'Rourke quote on such topics, please do it off list so as to save Ray a lot of work and stress). However, I would like to make a very, very important distinction here. In my life I have met pseudo as well as actual pacifists. How did I come to this distinction? It's real simple, as a violent and dangerous person I would react to the violence within other people. I "recognized my own" so to speak. With this in mind, I realized that there is a serious difference between pseudo and actual pacifists and it's really easy to spot the difference. You want to bitchslap the pseudo one, and yet, around the actual pacifists, it's almost like the "rush" you get taking off armour. You can relax. You don't need violence around these people because they have no violence around themselves. All the protection, all the shields, all the awareness and paranoia that you need to have when dealing with violent, selfish SOBs, just is not necessary around an actual pacifist. It's like the person is "off the fighting radar" They simply are not a threat. Around them, it's like shedding the weight of a paranoid backpack, you don't need your defenses for violence. In my earlier books I mentioned a social phenomenon in violent lifestyles called "untouchables" (these are people who are functionally non-targets for all but the most insanely violent because of what they do for people e.g. a priest, a doctor, nurse etc.). These people do not "provoke" a violent response from all except the most pathological. It would be like having to defend yourself against a baby. The stimuli is just NOT there to respond violently to them. I mention this because your line "I doubt you'll find too many people who would refuse to use force in self-defense against somebody who attacked them for no reason." I think you will find that -- whether or not you agree with the "reason" -- that violence never happens without reason. In fact, most violence occurs because the supposed "victim" gave the attacker "reason" Now again, before I get flamed by victim advocates and special interest folks let me say right up front that for every abuser who is looking for an excuse to go off, I have encountered at least 10 examples of "You cannot say/do that and NOT expect to get slugged around here!" as the motivation for violence. This is especially true for arguments that escalate into fights/assaults. (Oh BTW folks new "stealth" page on the differences between fighting/SD/combat/assaults and tournament training is www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/MAandSD.htm It's not linked to anything yet and is still in a rough draft form.) This is to say whether think you they are good or not, an attacker has reasons for attacking. And obviously they are good enough for him to attack you. Sad thing is, most of the times, while the victim didn't "deserve" being attacked, where the hell are they from that they think that they wouldn't be attacked for that kind of behavior? Especially in light of the fact that they were dealing with a violent person? Hellllooooooo! Now here is where things get rather speculative while returning to the idea of pacifism. I have, due, not only to my former profession but also because of my current one, run across a whole messa' self-proclaimed pacifists. Generally speaking, I have found them to be as aggressive, obnoxious, self-serving and willing to get in conflict over something as anyone else -- in fact, quite often, even more so. It really fascinates me that I have on several occasions had self-proclaimed pacifists stand there, nearly screaming in my face, how I was an evil person for using violence. Obviously these people have never read the unabridged dictionary's definition of violence Random House, Unabridged, 2nd edition 1) A swift and intense force 2) rough or injurious physical force, action or treatment 3) an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights, laws etc. 4) a violent act or proceeding 5) rough or immoderate vehemence as of feeling or language 6) injury as from distortion of meaning or fact Notice that only two of those definitions have anything to do with physical force as generated by human beings on another. Whereas #5 is the real kicker for most self-proclaimed pacifists. A general summary of their beliefs of pacifism is as follows "I can say or do anything that I want and you cannot respond in a physically threatening and/or damaging manner." That's not pacifism, that's stacking the deck so you don't get punched out for your bad behavior. Hmmm...maybe therapy thinking isn't so illogical after all. I can say or do anything I want, but you have to behave -- especially when it comes to any level of violence that goes beyond what I deem is okay for me to engage in. Anything past that is "violent" and it is bad. That's kind of like me saying that because I am good with a knife, guns are bad and everyone should carry knives instead. This is an extreme example, but it does show the basic misconception that so often underlies self-proclaimed pacifism. A lot of the time what you will encounter in the general public is not pacifism at all, but rather surprise that someone will physically attack them instead of just shouting, screaming and jumping around that most people consider the strategy for arguing. Where this is different than what most self-proclaimed pacifists practice is that, they do know that they can (and possibly will) enrage someone far enough to physically attack. But instead of moderating their behavior to keep from provoking an attack, they instead take a moral high ground about why "violence" is wrong and that they should have the right to say whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Here have a hanky, you just "should" all over yourself. There are two main underlying themes that I have found pretty consistent with most self-proclaimed pacifists. One is the idea that violence is something that shouldn't happen to-- or around -- them. Now this is important because a whole lot of the time, when pressed for an explanation regarding the holes in their philosophy, they will admit that "yes, a small segment of people who use violence to stop it are necessary." But having said that, boy will they put restrictions on how that segment should act and how wrong it is that this must be. (In fact, a good debater can have fun seeing how fast he can get them into admitting this. You lose points if you push too hard and get them screaming at you or calling you a Nazi). And two, their opinion about that segment that makes up this "necessary evil" are seriously less than sterling. How many of you have run into a wall of distain because you are martial artists? How many of you are old enough to remember Vietnam veterans being spit on in airports by war protestors screaming for peace? While it is an older example, it still is good for exemplifying the concept I am talking about here. In short Rog, I'm not arguing that most self-proclaimed pacifists would attempt to defend themselves if attacked. Hell, I've seen it. They fail miserably mind you, but yep, when they'd pissed off the wrong person, they did try to defend themselves from attack. What I am saying is that most of the ones I have met are outraged that they'd have to because they a) feel they should be able to say anything that they want to and b) they feel that learning how to fight is beneath them. But boy howdy would they scream for people like me to come and pull an attacker off them. But you know what? That was nothing in comparison to the emotional trauma drama/snit fit they'd pull afterwards because that evil, vicious person punched them out for something they did (like throw paint on a woman's mink coat). You have not lived until while trying to take a report you find yourself thinking "Yeah, and I'd like to slap the s**t out of you myself" but find yourself biting your tongue in the name of professional standards. Now compare that with truly pacific people in whose presence you just relax because they don't have a violent fiber in their body. . In short, I think you will find that there is a big difference between being actually pacifistic and using pacifism as a strategy to not only cover one's own bad behavior but to keep from having to pay for it when you violate the rules of conduct. Big difference, huge difference. As you might have gathered by now, in my business of teaching about personal safety I have run into this problem quite often. Here are a few links http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/fightorno.html http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/assertiveness.html M --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Scott Kinney" To: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:02:03 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: How did Achilles die in "The Iliad" ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I too enjoyed Achilles fighting style (as well as the shots of the > technology of the phalanx) and the movie's explanation of the myth and agree > with your dislike of the changes to Paris's story. > > BTW, my memory blanks on the point-- how did Achilles die in The Iliad? > > Crafty He doesn't. (And the big wooden horsie doesn't appear in it at all.) Scott Kinney Amateur Barbarian --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:53:05 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Freedom Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kim, Your email about the above subject was well said. It is worthy of being spoken at a larger forum than ED. How appropriate for this 4th of July weekend. Below is an edited edition of your message > I did not intend for my post to be a slap in the face of anyone serving; I > have the highest respect for anyone who in service of this country. My father > is a decorated veteran, and told me many stories of his service in the Korean > War. I prize our freedom as much as the next person, a freedom that allows us > to disagree with our nation's leaders when we think they are wrong, or are not > representative of their constituents. That very freedom permits me to speak > my mind without getting the "America, love it or leave it" rhetoric. That > same freedom also allows for our partisan system, giving us free voting rights, > which I exercise every single time we elect public officials. I am not opposed > to America defending the banner of freedom wherever it may be necessary; I > have very strong beliefs on the reasons why we entered into this war, and will > continue to express myself as I see fit. I personally think that our military > presence would be much more appreciated and needed in other areas of the > world. .............Remember the word "Freedom" that > you toss around so freely? Is this freedom as you perceive it, freedom for > only a select few, freedom for only those that think the way you do? You know, > this brings to mind the current controversy about the pledge of allegiance, > about deleting the words "under God" from the pledge. How about an addition to > the pledge to better reflect the way things really are...changing the final > line to "Freedom and justice for all, except for certain minority groups, races, > religions, ethnic groups, and those with convoluted thinking"? If we are > being honest here, isn't that the way we continue to believe, despite our many > battles both here and abroad to defend the ideal of "freedom" we are so willing > to deny each other? Freedom means just that, FREEDOM to express oneself > without fear of reprisal, freedom to live, work, and think as we choose. ........ > > Kim Satterfield Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Catalino Garcia Jr" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Hardcore training Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 02:33:57 -1000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Karol, I'll be on Maui from Sunday to Tuesday, 7/4 -7/6. My parents live in Lahaina and I grew up there. Is there a way we can get together and talk sticks and such? It's always nice to meet fellow FMA'ers. Please e-mail me at cjgarcia68@hotmail.com. Hope to hear from you. Cat Garcia ----- Original Message ----- From: Karol Krauser To: Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:33 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Hardcore training > I don't mean to beat a dead horse with this topic but > I felt compelled to share some recent thoughts that > were stirred by discussions over the past few weeks on > the topic of hardcore training. I recently re-located > to Maui and have found a shortage of training partners > as well as Filipino and Indonesian martial arts. This > has led me to be somewhat creative and explore some > options. > > Teaching and training in the outdoors with Mother > Nature and the elements can often lend a new > experience to the term "Hardcore Training." Instead of > training in the shade on 90 plus degree days it is > often challenging to take it out in the direct > sunlight. With the heat beating down it adds a whole > new twist to things. You get exhausted much quicker > but it makes you reach different levels than training > indoors. I often use a timer and alternate between > five minute rounds of karenza, kembangan, various > sinwali drills, and working on trees or other objects. > > If you haven't done this be creative and give it a > try. Start off slow as it really gets your heart > pumping and drink lots of water of course. I often > monitor my heart rate during these sessions and find I > get a double benefit of martial arts work as well as > cardio work. A guy can also wear a weight vest, or a > small weighted back pack and work low line, lunging or > squatting leg work into a whole plethora of movement. > Pushups or abdominal work can be used in between > rounds to mix things up. You can also change the > sticks you are using as well. Try using heavy Kamagong > sticks for a round and then pick up some lighter > rattan for the next.you will be surprised what > happens. > You can get pretty creative with this kind of > environmental training. If it starts raining things > change as well, the ground becomes more slick, but you > just adapt with what it is you are doing. Cold > weather also provides another twist but a lot of > people aren't really enthusiastic about the extremes > of heat and cold. I would often train at friend's > garage in the dead of winter in Seattle opening the > door to allow the elements in. Friends often curse and > complain when you do this though. > At the present time I am fortunate enough to live in > Maui as we speak and I have taken some of my student > through these kinds of workout and also down to the > beach to practice silat and other things in the surf > and sand. Since some of them haven't experienced the > "Mc Dojo" atmosphere they don't know the difference > and embrace the variety and challenge that Mother > Nature provides. > I was training on the roof of an Ashrahm in India a > few years back and the monkeys provide a challenge in > itself as you constantly have to break the rhythm in > your training to keep the buggers from stealing your > sticks, food, water, or anything shiny that's not > nailed down. Not to mention they jump on you randomly > just for something to do. Training on rooftops while > in a strange land whether it be the heat of the day or > the dark of the night can often lend a challenge of > sorts. Just be sure and check out how the locals might > interpret your actions! > > I had a close friend that moved from Japan were he was > a high level jujitsu player. When moving to the states > he didn't have a partner for a while. He made due by > putting on a thick Kimono top and rolling with his 100 > pound Rottweiller. Hardcore or crazy.? Where does > one draw the line? Look at the Dog Brothers.is it > hardcore ? Its hard to argue against that one but then > so is training in the elements with you heart pounding > in your chest, freezing cold and being mentally > strong, or constantly trying to find fears and > challenges to face. > I had a silat teacher who told me that as a child > in Indonesia that he would have to work on one Djuru > for hours a day outside for weeks on end before he got > another piece of the puzzle. Not exactly for most > westerners though. Maybe it's just anything that > exceeds your previously imagined limitations. Facing > your fears be they mental or physical..with or without > a partner. Use your imagination, Mother Nature, your > friends and training partners and challenge yourself. > Also when any of you on the digest make it out here to > Maui I always have a great place to train.out doors of > course. > > Karol Ungoy Krauser > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:26:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: mottos, motivators, etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 7/2/04 5:39:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > N: Just curious what personal motto's, quotes or other motivators that > N: people use? > My personal favorite, in the words of John Belushi, "Wise up." Too bad he didn't listen to his own advice, though; we lost an incredible talent when he passed. Also, I would like to extend my apologies to all who are members of this forum for getting caught up in the political stuff that has been circulating here. Mr. Klimanis was absolutely right, this isn't the place for that type of discussion, and I wish I had restrained myself before responding to the post by Mr. Luna. My sincere apologies to all. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:52:01 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Orwell quote Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >George Orwell was a fervent comunist in his youth. He even lived in the >USSR for a time. That is where he learned the evils of the system and it >gave him a basis for his writings. It is worth noting that while Orwell became disenchanted with and bitterly opposed to Soviet Communism he remained a lifelong radical and Socialist. >As for unrestricted violence by the >military, I don't believe any sane person advocates that. I read the quote >just as it is written, civilians need not worry about their safety because >there are men about to protect them. The world is never short of insane people. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of BackGrnd.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 18:34:54 +0400 From: eric.taimanglo@us.army.mil To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Crappola Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I sincerely hope that when you say crappola, you are not referring to the blood we've spilt out here, or the mortar that blew up next to my compound at 2 this morning. Nuff said. Five years is a long time to be learning from the list... I've been on it for a little more than five years. I've learned a lot too, and when I check out the archives and see posts I have made, I see how much I have grown and matured, in all aspects of my life experience, of which FMA is a huge part. When I first started out in the martial arts, it was all about learning HOW to harness power. I remember always hungering for the latest greatest Figure 8-Roof to triple abaniko-leg buckle-artery teeth pull technique. WHEN to use the power follows, naturally; I had the mechanics of the foot trap-mandible yank-nose pull, but I had to get the timing down, in terms of delivery, eventually giving way to the higher study of the use of force, or force continuum, whatever. WHERE? Well, if you want to use your k ick-catch-testicle snatch, you need an understanding of distance and spacial relationships. And of course, you gotta know where to catch the kick in order to snatch the balls out from under a male assailant's....ahem. After I got all that down (well, I'll be honest, the technical map of the Figure 8-Roof to triple abaniko-leg buckle artery teeth pull is still beyond my feeble reach), I relented to the fact that warriors today, that is, people who fight for a living, no longer ride horses, and that death matches no longer take place, I decided to become a soldier again. September 11 made my decision all the more vivid in my heart. Between deploying to Iraq last year and now, almost a week from the freedom bird to a REAL beer and a bucket of POPEYE's chicken, I've seen a lot of things that brought me face to face with what Carl Jung referred to as "the Shadow" in myself. And it is here that I have encountered the final question to answer as a warrior, one that I probably never will. It is one that is of utmost importance to anyone who hones a skill involving inflicting harm on another human being, be it with a firearm or a palm stick, if the true deepness of the martial path is to be realized. WHO AM I? By the way, do I have to expound on the etymology of the word "martial"? ------- A WEEK AND A WAKE UP TO THE FREEDOM BIRD, YALL!!! SPC ERIC TAIMANGLO, 1ST ARMORED DIVISION, BAGHDAD, IRAQ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest