Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #266 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: (Modern arnis and the blade (david foggie) 2. pacifism (Patrick Davies) 3. RE: Motto's (John Johnson) 4. Re: Chicago Area (Scott Kinney) 5. Korean Stickfighting (Bobby Indas) 6. RE: Modern Arnis (Danny Anderson) 7. Re: Korean Stickfighting (Ray Terry) 8. Re: Re: Chicago Area (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 9. Re: Pacifism (Roger Tinkoff) 10. Motto's (Pjbagalayos@aol.com) 11. Re: Pacifism (Ray Terry) 12. mottos (steve kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: david foggie Subject: Re: [Eskrima] (Modern arnis and the blade To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net According to Guro Roland Dantes, when he was training under the auspices of Professor Remy A.Presas, he was instructed to treat the cane as a sword. Prior to developing and founding modern arnis, Professor Remy trained in balintawk in cebu under a number of teachers including, Anciong Bacon, Maranga and Mongcal. From what I know of balintawak having just been in cebu, I was told by several masters there that balintawak is stick based. Originally when Anciong Bacon studied the art, it was espada y daga based. Due to his habit of poking and using the dagger on his training partners,his teachers removed the dagger. Thus, balintawak became stick based. This is evident in the palakaw drill in balintawak ,where there is checking and grabbing of the cane. This is where Professor Remy came to infuse this aspect checking and/or grabbing the cane into modern arnis . Davi --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:09:00 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] pacifism Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 From: "Marc Macyoung" Ummm...ummm....errrr....Rog, I hate to say this, but you are thinking WAY to logically here. ....... ......). However, I would like to make a very, very important distinction here. In my life I have met pseudo as well as actual pacifists. How did I come to this distinction? It's real simple, as a violent and dangerous person I would react to the violence within other people. I "recognized my own" so to speak. With this in mind, I realized that there is a serious difference between pseudo and actual pacifists and it's really easy to spot the difference. Actually I'm with Rog. Ive read the overkill ; ) and while I agree with some of your sentiments you are putting a whole lot of stuff into one box. That's too convenient but understandable when trying to bring a large subject to one swift conclusion. There are many people on here who call themselves FMA'ers. Yet we would all agree that the subject is far too broad to be able to be doing the same thing. There will also be people who have just started who are trying to understand all the differences and simply get a grip on the style that they are being shown. Some are enthusiastic and loud, some are quiet, some have misconceptions and some are right on. That's human nature and in the use of this example I would say that you could pretty well identify that scenario with every political stance. Having read into the pacifists of the past I have heard of some who have been very courageous in the face of much hostility for not running with the pack. The fact that we see the press highlight certain stereotypes is significant of a need for people to conform to a certain mindset. There's a lot of people who shout about freedom who are very quick to deny others there's. My local paper is running scare stories about travellers who have arrived in the area and who will leave rubbish behind but never carry the story of the industrial estate just down the road pumping pollutants into the river daily. Maybe the industrial estate pays too much in advertising revenue. Generally intolerance means that someone somewhere is making money out other peoples misfortunes. I know what pacifism means to me and I'm happy with it. If other people don't like me saying that then I wonder why when they have never discussed with me what I actually mean by it. iPat --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Motto's Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My English teacher in high school used these words of wisdom "Find away, or make one". I've always felt those were wise words. Peace Out John _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up – now 2 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Scott Kinney" To: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:10:50 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Chicago Area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I'm going to Chicago for at least six months because my company sent me to > observe network systems in The Drake Hotel. Does anyone knows where to find > an FMA school(s) there? Balintawak style preferred but not necessary. I > would appreciate your help. Thanks. > > Bob I've heard good things about the North Shore Academy, but it's outside the city proper. P.S. I had a similar issue a few years ago when doing work in Chicago. I had a hard time finding a place to play.... Scott Kinney Amateur Barbarian --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Bobby Indas" To: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 09:53:50 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know if this was/had been discussed here in the forum but I have to ask anyway. I have been to a tae kwon do school recently here in St. Augustine, FL and found out that there is a stickfighting technique called "Tahn Bong Sul". Saw some applications and some few steps (not forms) are quite similar to Arnis but weighing it, it's not as effective as Arnis does (just my opinion). Any of you guys care to give some thoughts about it? -- or I was just being 'naive'. Thanks. Bobby Indas. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 14:55:00 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Modern Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: That is true, however, you take a look at the classical striking styles illustrated in his first book and put that together with what he taught in the US, there is quite a bit of the foundation of Modern Arnis in his earlier training. Also, I'm finding out from research that Modern Arnis in the PI has a lot more to do with the blade than Modern Arnis in the USA. The balintawak numbering system and the Modern Arnis numbering system are actually different. I am currently training with Manong Ted Buot, Ancion Bacon's student, and I know both numbering systems. No annoyance there. You are absolutely correct and he followed that line of teaching here in the US. This is probably why he didn't teach much in the way of any kind of blade here. There were a number of us who were close to him and he showed it in different ways. Check out the DVD. Bram explains it far better than I do. Yours, Dan Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I don't know if this was/had been discussed here in the forum but I have to > ask anyway. I have been to a tae kwon do school recently here in St. > Augustine, FL and found out that there is a stickfighting technique called > "Tahn Bong Sul". Saw some applications and some few steps (not forms) are > quite similar to Arnis but weighing it, it's not as effective as Arnis does > (just my opinion). Any of you guys care to give some thoughts about it? -- > or I was just being 'naive'. Thanks. Sul = techniques, Bong = staff/stick, Dan/tahn = short. The dan bong is a stick about 7 to 14 inches in length, frequently with a loop of cord attached to grip end. An easy stick to conceal. There are many styles of dan bong sul, but most do not really look much like eskrima. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 13:33:07 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Chicago Area To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Chicago area schools. IM sure there are many to choose from... some that I know specifically to look for is Fred Degerbergs school, Nate Defensor and Dion Riccardo who is certified under Dan Inosanto and Balicki as well as many others. www.victory4you.cmasdirect.com http://www.kalieskrima.com/defensor/interview.html http://www.degerberg.com/pagegen.asp?pageID=8 http://www.ronbalicki.com/seminars.htm Hope this helps. Thnx [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Surfing .jpg] --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:52:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pacifism To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Marc Macyoung wrote: > I think you will find that -- whether or not you > agree with the "reason" -- > that violence never happens without reason. In fact, > most violence occurs > because the supposed "victim" gave the attacker > "reason" I guess I'm with Chris Rock on this one. It's perfectly OK to say that somebody *deserves* to get punched, just don't actually *do* it! > But instead > of moderating their behavior to keep from provoking > an attack, they instead > take a moral high ground about why "violence" is > wrong and that they should > have the right to say whatever they want without > fear of being attacked. I get the feeling that most of your ire is directed at liberals. Anti-abortion activists, white supremacists, and young Republicans engage in such provocations as SOP. As far as I'm concerned, these right-wing "pacifists" could also benefit from some therapy... > How many of you are old > enough to remember Vietnam veterans being spit on in > airports by war > protestors screaming for peace? With all due respect here Marc, did you ever personally witness this? I ask because, according to the book "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam" by Jerry Lembcke: http://slate.msn.com/id/1005224/ "Lembcke, a professor of sociology at Holy Cross and a Vietnam vet, investigated hundreds of news accounts of antiwar activists spitting on vets. But every time he pushed for more evidence or corroboration from a witness, the story collapsed--the actual person who was spat on turned out to be a friend of a friend. Or somebody's uncle. He writes that he never met anybody who convinced him that any such clash took place." So while I'm not saying it never happened (that would be impossible to prove), I'll believe it only if you can tell me you actually witnessed it first-hand. > But boy howdy would they scream for people like me > to come and pull an > attacker off them. But you know what? That was > nothing in comparison to the > emotional trauma drama/snit fit they'd pull > afterwards because that evil, > vicious person punched them out for something they > did (like throw paint on > a woman's mink coat). I say that throwing paint, fake (or real) blood, or spitting on a person absolutely qualifies as "violence" in my book and therefore justifies a violent response. You don't get to call yourself a "pacifist" if you use tactics like that. Muhammad Ali seems like the kind of pacifist us martial arts types can admire. Clearly not a man opposed to violence or one who'd hesitate to defend himself if attacked, but who believed strongly that violence and aggression are not the ways to solve problems. Rog --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:46:02 -0400 From: Pjbagalayos@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Motto's Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Draw me not without reason. Sheath me not without honor." --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pacifism To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 14:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > How many of you are old > > enough to remember Vietnam veterans being spit on in > > airports by war > > protestors screaming for peace? > > With all due respect here Marc, did you ever > personally witness this? I ask because, according to > the book "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the > Legacy of Vietnam" by Jerry Lembcke: Perhaps this researcher took 'spat upon' literally. Without a doubt the returning Vietnam vets, esp after ~1970, were shown great disrespect. If Lembcke didn't feel this or see this he is either a liar or a poor researcher. Back to FMA??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 00:23:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] mottos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net   This one is huge to me: "Humor is one of the only things worth taking seriously." -Mick Goodrick (Legendary Guitarist)   Best, Steve Kohn     >From: Kes41355@aol.com >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Re: mottos, motivators, etc. >Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:26:13 EDT > >In a message dated 7/2/04 5:39:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time, >eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > > > N: Just curious what personal motto's, quotes or other motivators that > > N: people use? > > > >My personal favorite, in the words of John Belushi, "Wise up."  Too bad he >didn't listen to his own advice, though; we lost an incredible talent when he >passed. > >Also, I would like to extend my apologies to all who are members of this >forum for getting caught up in the political stuff that has been circulating here. >  Mr. Klimanis was absolutely right, this isn't the place for that type of >discussion, and I wish I had restrained myself before responding to the post by >Mr. Luna.  My sincere apologies to all. > >Kim Satterfield >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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