Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:02:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #267 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Mottos (Nat Nickele) 2. Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) (Bobby Indas) 3. Re: Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) (Ray Terry) 4. Korean Stick Fighting (Gary Hudgins) 5. Re: Mottos (Joaquin Torres) 6. Re: Mottos (Mike Casto) 7. Re: Motto's (m0rdant) 8. re Modern Arnis (The Comedy and Magic of Wanlu) 9. Weekend report (Patrick Davies) 10. Pacifism (Marc Macyoung) 11. Re: Weekend report (Roger Tinkoff) 12. Travelling and training in the Philippines (Sidney525@aol.com) 13. Cabales Serrada Escrima - Temecula, CA Seminar (Dave Lee) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 20:42:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mottos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I always liked the motto: "If you are fighting fair, you are fighting too hard." -Nat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bobby Indas" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Sul = techniques, Bong = staff/stick, Dan/tahn = short. The dan bong is > a stick about 7 to 14 inches in length, frequently with a loop of cord > attached to grip end. An easy stick to conceal. There are many styles > of dan bong sul, but most do not really look much like eskrima. > > Ray Terry Ray, thanks for that brief discription. I spoke to the "guy" (5d BB) if he knows or heard of Eskrima - he said yes but he prefer to use Tahn Bong. I saw that stick was about arms length (26" or 30"). It's not made of rattan but was made of different kind of wood -- dont know exactly the type. Anyway, I came back and last night to find out his techniques because I was curious -- to no avail he showed some moves with one stick and then two sticks. short on footwork and little on point attacks and slashing combinations. The L-shape stance is similar to TKD and holding the stick is much to high the way I see it. Now, if this form is not much like eskrima, why is he using the 12 point system? Considering he never learnt the style (Eskrima). Your thoughts? Bob --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 06:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Sul = techniques, Bong = staff/stick, Dan/tahn = short. The dan bong is > > a stick about 7 to 14 inches in length, frequently with a loop of cord > > attached to grip end. An easy stick to conceal. There are many styles > > of dan bong sul, but most do not really look much like eskrima. > > Ray, thanks for that brief discription. I spoke to the "guy" (5d BB) if he > knows or heard of Eskrima - he said yes but he prefer to use Tahn Bong. I > saw that stick was about arms length (26" or 30"). It's not made of rattan > but was made of different kind of wood -- dont know exactly the type. > Anyway, I came back and last night to find out his techniques because I was > curious -- to no avail he showed some moves with one stick and then two > sticks. short on footwork and little on point attacks and slashing > combinations. The L-shape stance is similar to TKD and holding the stick is > much to high the way I see it. Now, if this form is not much like eskrima, > why is he using the 12 point system? Considering he never learnt the style > (Eskrima). Your thoughts? A stick of that length would be a joong bong, not a dan bong. Why a 12 point system??? Don't know... sounds like someone that taught him saw a bit of eskrima some where. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:30:41 -0500 (Central Standard Time) From: "Gary Hudgins" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Korean Stick Fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net -------Original Message------- From: "Bobby Indas" I don't know if this was/had been discussed here in the forum but I have to ask anyway. I have been to a tae kwon do school recently here in St. Augustine, FL and found out that there is a stickfighting technique called "Tahn Bong Sul". Saw some applications and some few steps (not forms) are quite similar to Arnis but weighing it, it's not as effective as Arnis does (just my opinion). Any of you guys care to give some thoughts about it? -- or I was just being 'naive'. Thanks. ======= I recently stopped by an ATA school to watch and see if I could observe some of their weapons practice. I had stopped by before and found that they now taught weapons. Years ago 15-20, I do not remember ever seeing weapons in Tae Kwon Do -- (Except some use of the sword) Now, IMHO, they are getting on the band wagon with weapons, and grappling, all of course with the TaeKwondo flavor. I am going to go back so I can observe their weapons practice to see just what they are doing. If I like it I might join up for a while. Is there an "original art" of Tahn Bong Sul? Don't know. Yudo -- Judo ? Kendo -- Kemdo? Escrima -- Tahn Bong Sul"? Karate -- TaeKwon Do (Do you remember the original TaeKwonDo forms looking a lot like Shotokan forms? Now before any one says I am cutting down TaeKwonDo.. Just remember what one martial artist said. "Absorb what is useful" --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:47:33 -0400 From: Joaquin Torres To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mottos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough." Referring to fighting...all of you still in school, ignore! :) Joaquin Torres Nat Nickele wrote: >I always liked the motto: >"If you are fighting fair, you are fighting too hard." >-Nat > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mottos Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:02:15 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I like the slightly more extreme version of this: "If you're not cheating, you're not fighting." Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nat Nickele" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Mottos > I always liked the motto: > "If you are fighting fair, you are fighting too hard." > -Nat > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "m0rdant" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:26:59 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Motto's Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net During some endurance horse stance training back in my Karate days my instructor said something that has always stuck with me.... "If you fall down, that's okay. It means your legs are weak and I can make your legs strong. If you stand up it means your mind is weak, and there is little I can do about that." --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "The Comedy and Magic of Wanlu" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:38:12 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] re Modern Arnis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net How true is it that Mr Presas learned modern arnis from a Mr Doromal in Manila... Wanlu Yaw-Yan --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 16:22:39 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] Weekend report Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net An excellent seminar in London with Guro Inosanto at the weekend. Met up with list member Julian Gilmore to ad to the enjoyment. Thought I would post this link of a knockout. It's a confrontation between two band members GLENN DANZIG Gets 'Knocked Out' By NORTH SIDE KINGS Singer Following Arizona Gig - July 4, 2004 www.shaggusmachaggis.com/...glenn.mpeg iPat --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:56:20 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Pacifism Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat Davies said > Actually I'm with Rog. Ive read the overkill ; ) and while I agree with > some of your sentiments you are putting a whole lot of stuff into one > box. That's too convenient but understandable when trying to bring a > large subject to one swift conclusion. True, it is a very broad brush stroke picture, and there are countless exceptions, variations and shadings of motivations involved. But we must keep in mind that just because someone claims to represent an ideal/agenda doesn't necessarily mean they are walking their talk. Quite often the motivation behind "lofty ideals" is anything but kosher. > That's human > nature and in the use of this example I would say that you could pretty > well identify that scenario with every political stance. In which case, as a known factor/identified pattern, debate over its significance can proceed. It's hard to talk about something though if a pattern isn't recognized in the first place. Even if people do not ascribe the same value, significance, etc. to the factors, there is acknowledgement that something is up. > Having read into the pacifists of the past I have heard of some who have > been very courageous in the face of much hostility for not running with > the pack. You mean like the Quaker corpsmen? Medics under fire who, while saving lives, refuse to take another life. I have nothing but respect for those guys. Ghandi? Wow. Thing is pacifism is not about a lack of courage. It is very much about the idea that violence doesn't solve anything. And idea, that quite frankly I too tend to believe in. Despite a lot of experience with violence I can pretty well state that from what I have seen while violence has resolved situations, it has never solved the problem that created that situation. Violence, or the threat of violence, may have kept a decision from being executed, but it has never changed the mindset of the person who was contemplating that decision. Yes, I can convince a violent person not to attack me or those in my care, but that doesn't mean I can prevent him from attacking someone else. Not without severely inteferring with his freedoms, rights and right to independant thought. And let's say that I do have to kill him. Then I am accountable for having deprived another citizen of life. In doing so, I have created an entire different plethora of problems. Violence is a very, very limited tool. While I don't agree with the idea that it should never be used, I do contend that it is not really effective for long term problem solving. With this in mind, actual pacifists can, as you say, be very couragous in their attempts to bring about change for the better. And god bless them real good, that is something that this world sure could use. But until that time, the world also needs people who are willing to stand the wall and say "nope, not on my watch fella" to those who do use violence to get what they want. >The fact that we see the press highlight certain stereotypes > is significant of a need for people to conform to a certain mindset. *snicker* and you accuse me of putting a whole lot in one box. That single statement is worthy of doctral thesises in several different disciplines. You could have Ph.Ds in psychology, sociology, anthropology, communications, poli-sci and theology arguing for decades. :D > There's a lot of people who shout about freedom who are very quick to > deny others. Absolutely. One thing we must be aware of is the tendency of humans, not to decry the "game" so much as to decry when they are not on top. "It's wrong for you to do it to me, but it's okay for me to do it to you." As I often say: It is the "game" that is wrong, not whether you are winning or losing. This tendency is exlempified by how often the "oppressed" themselves become oppressors when and if they come to power. But again, we need to watch for motivations and patterns underlying avowed "higher ideals" >Generally intolerance means > that someone somewhere is making money out other peoples misfortunes. Or has figured out some other type of profit for them. Profit, not always being measured in financial gain. But yes, I do agree with that assessment, somebody is getting something out of it. > I know what pacifism means to me and I'm happy with it. If other people > don't like me saying that then I wonder why when they have never > discussed with me what I actually mean by it. Actually, I'd like to hear your definition off list (to save folks from having to listen to two old pedantic guys discussing obscure ideas when we should be discussing hitting each other with sticks). Rog said > I guess I'm with Chris Rock on this one. It's > perfectly OK to say that somebody *deserves* to get > punched, just don't actually *do* it! I'd call that a pretty good rule of thumb. > I get the feeling that most of your ire is directed at > liberals. Anti-abortion activists, white > supremacists, and young Republicans engage in such > provocations as SOP. As far as I'm concerned, these > right-wing "pacifists" could also benefit from some > therapy... Basically I get nervous around any extreme. I say this because it has been my observation that most extremes are more interested in what they want instead of looking at what the world is and more importantly needs. I mean why change what you believe, make the world change to fit your beliefs. (Osama Bin Laden demanding the US convert to Islam comes to mind. But that is about as wacky as the US demanding that the Middle East convert to democracy -- good frickin' luck). And having dealt with more than a few "right wing extremists" and white supremacists, where the hell did you find a right wing pacifist? Damn! Put that guy in "Ripley's Believe it or Not" museum. As for some of them folks needing therapy...I'm waiting for News here. Hell, some of the guys I've run across at gun shows kinda make you trigger happy on thorzine injections > With all due respect here Marc, did you ever > personally witness this? I ask because, according to > the book "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the > Legacy of Vietnam" by Jerry Lembcke: > http://slate.msn.com/id/1005224/ Personally witness it, no. I knew two guys who did experience it though. And they were NOT happy about it. This is not friend of a friend, these were people I personally knew for years. Including one guy who when the cop pulled him off the dude, he wasn't arrested for assault because the cop had himself gotten back from Vietnam a couple of years earlier. That was Tim Toohey, who unfortunately passed away from cancer a few years ago. I lost contact with Terry Rourke, the other vet many years past. (Who wasn't spit on, but at, while being screamed at by a peace protestor). Therefore, Lembcke's contention will have to stand for the moment. > I say that throwing paint, fake (or real) blood, or > spitting on a person absolutely qualifies as > "violence" in my book and therefore justifies a > violent response. You don't get to call yourself a > "pacifist" if you use tactics like that. Ah, but now you have just wandered into the land of self-rationalization and the dreaded "it's okay for me to do this, but not you" mindset that is so common in many ideologies and personal philosophies. It is a real slippery slope when you get into that place and it is only a short step from deciding what people "deserve." Unfortunately, you will find that this kind of thinking is a very common theme in the creation of many fights and acts of violence. That is why it is so ludicrious when the exact same thinking is displayed by people who claim to be pacifists. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:21:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Tinkoff Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Weekend report To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Patrick Davies wrote: > Thought I would post this link of a knockout. It's a > confrontation > between two band members > > GLENN DANZIG Gets 'Knocked Out' By NORTH SIDE KINGS > Singer Following > Arizona Gig - July 4, 2004 > > www.shaggusmachaggis.com/...glenn.mpeg > Wow... I remember (years ago) hearing all about what a bad-ass Danzig was, how he trained in Muay Thai, etc. Just goes to show that even the toughest-looking guy can be put right down with a single well-placed shot. Rog --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 18:40:11 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Travelling and training in the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will be travelling to the Philippiines later on this month, and a number of people have given me people and places to go of interest for the escrimador. I was just looking for an additional input in terms of possible people to train with, where I might find some interesting training equiptment (swords, sticks, etc), and any places of interest. I am planning primarily to be around Manila, Southern Luzon & Cebu. But I am kind of flexible. salamat Sid --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Dave Lee" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:57:11 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Cabales Serrada Escrima - Temecula, CA Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Please make note, I'm sorry for the inconvience but there has been a date change for the Mata Sa Bagyo Filipino Martial Arts Academy Cabales Serrada Escrima Seminar featuring Guro CARLITO BONJOC JR., being held in Temecula, CA... The new date will be on SUNDAY, JULY 18TH - 10:30AM - 4:00PM For more information please contact DAVID LEE @ dr2spike@hotmail.com or (805) 570-9163 Please check out our website for new updates and registration information @ www.bagyo.net Thank You for your support and preservation of the Filipino Martial Arts and Culture... _________________________________________________________________ Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest