Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:37:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #268 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Violent pacifists etc. (Michael Koblic) 2. Rutano Estokada Seminar-Calgary, Alberta,Canada (gordon walker) 3. Danzig (Phil Hurcum) 4. Re: Personal motto's and motivators (DenverAMA@aol.com) 5. RE: Pacifism (Patrick Davies) 6. Re: Korean Stickfighting (Bobby Indas) 7. Re: Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) (Joe Marszalek) 8. Re: Personal motto's and motivators (Leo Daher) 9. Re: Pacifism (steven ledwith) 10. Re: Mottos (steven ledwith) 11. Re: Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) (Ray Terry) 12. Motto (Mark Harrell) 13. San Antonio Schools and Recommendations (Ken McDonough) 14. Re: Personal motto's and motivators (DenverAMA@aol.com) 15. RE: Danzig (steve kohn) 16. Re: Crappola (steve kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:27:38 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Violent pacifists etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Absolutely. One thing we must be aware of is the tendency of humans, not to decry the "game" so much as to decry when they are not on top. "It's wrong for you to do it to me, but it's okay for me to do it to you." As I often say: It is the "game" that is wrong, not whether you are winning or losing. This tendency is exlempified by how often the "oppressed" themselves become oppressors when and if they come to power. But again, we need to watch for motivations and patterns underlying avowed "higher ideals" Talking about the "game" and by extension, game theory (of which I know very little): Someone who knows about it much more than I do and studied a number of different scenarios said that he best strategy in a game (and, by his extrapolation, in life) is summed up by "Swift retaliation, swift forgiveness." Rights and wrongs seemed to have little to do with it. On some level it made sense to me. Michael Koblic Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:57:42 -0400 (EDT) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rutano Estokada Seminar-Calgary, Alberta,Canada Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Punong Guro Dan Rutano is currently setting up a seminar in Calgary for the last weekend of August. Details pending scheduling with other instructors and friends. Sincerely, Gordon Walker --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Hurcum To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Danzig Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Glenn Danzig was interviewed by Rolling Stone in the late 80's for the Lucifuge album and in the interview he was waving around what he called a "filipino death stick." Apparently he was training FMA, Modern Arnis I think. The guy is 5 foot dwarf inches though and he does not look like he is weight training for stamina. Too big to fight very long maybe. I can't believe he wrote music for Roy Orbison among others, very accomplished songwriter. Weird. ===== Phil Hurcum .:Head Instructor:. Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences "Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" www.arkangelmartialarts.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: DenverAMA@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:04:38 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Personal motto's and motivators To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net And this one Leo is really good! Best to you... Heather > "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ---- --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Pacifism Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:41:39 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Actually, I'd like to hear your definition off list (to save folks from having to listen to two old pedantic guys discussing obscure ideas when we should be discussing hitting each other with sticks). Hey! Less of the old ; ) Im sprightly!!! lol iPat --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bobby Indas" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:11:45 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Korean Stickfighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > A stick of that length would be a joong bong, not a dan bong. > > Why a 12 point system??? Don't know... sounds like someone that taught > him saw a bit of eskrima some where. > > Ray Terry One thing that amuses me though was that if he is/was taught by a certified instructor, would it be a credit to you that you have learned this from "master-cutter" and "master-mind"? I admit that I have learned many things from different masters that teach other forms of martial arts because it benefits "us" primarily. To borrow words from a cyber-friend: "Giving credit where credit is due". Is absolutely right! If this BB says that Tahn Bong is what he said it was not Joon Bong, probably he got confused or missed the description for it (not discrediting his tenure). --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:48:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Marszalek Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the mid-90's I saw a tape on Korean Stick Fighting and it looked a lot like Serreda but modified to be very like Tae Kwon Do/Karate. Very static movements. At the end of the tape Suro Mike Inay's name appeared in the credits. That system of Koren Stick fighting showed up at a friends ATA Tae Kwon Do school. Tae Kwon Do never had weapons. I can only assume its part of the stick fighting system Mike Inay modified and marketed to Tae Kwon Do schools so they could supplement their curriculum and give their Black Belts more to do. Joe Marszalek ===== Joe Marszalek's WishList -- http://www.amazon.com/o/registry/2TWW8GHT4IIAQ Web Admin for Martial Arts Koncepts -- http://www.MartialArtsKoncepts.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Personal motto's and motivators Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:31:31 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Heather! Did you have fun at the Sama Sama? "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: DenverAMA@aol.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Personal motto's and motivators Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:04:38 EDT And this one Leo is really good! Best to you... Heather > "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ---- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pacifism To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pacifism is a nice idea but the only time I know of that it has been effective in achieving a purpose was Ghandi's use of it. And he basically said we are all willing to die rather than continue be under English rule. For the rest of the pacifists it has been those willing to use force that have given them the chance to be pacifists. Violence seems to have changed Japan's aggressive use of force permanently. And even Jesus recommended carrying two swords. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mottos To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "There is no escape-we pay for the violence of our ancestors." " When law and duty are one, united by religion, you never become fully conscious, fully aware of yourself. You are always are a little less than an individual." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Korean Stickfighting (Tahn Bong) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > In the mid-90's I saw a tape on Korean Stick Fighting > and it looked a lot like Serreda but modified to be > very like Tae Kwon Do/Karate. Very static movements. > At the end of the tape Suro Mike Inay's name appeared > in the credits. That system of Koren Stick fighting > showed up at a friends ATA Tae Kwon Do school. Tae > Kwon Do never had weapons. I can only assume its part > of the stick fighting system Mike Inay modified and > marketed to Tae Kwon Do schools so they could > supplement their curriculum and give their Black Belts > more to do. I believe the ATA has something called the ProTech Training System. It is a bunch of add-ons to 'traditional' Taekwondo. I believe ProTech includes topical areas like Short Stick, Eskrima Stick, Sword, Knife, Joint Manipulation, etc. Not sure of the actual list of subjects. ATA instructors become certified (read instructors pay more money to the ATA) in the topical areas to pass the subjects along to their black belts (read students pay more to the instructor). I believe that the Lee brothers (founders of the ATA, formerly the MTA [Midwest TKD Assoc]) sought out Suro Mike Inay for instruction in some of these subject areas. Anyone care to add more info??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:42:14 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Motto Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I like this version: "If you are "fighting fair", you are actually sparring not fighting." Mark Harrell _________________________________________________________________ Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:09:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] San Antonio Schools and Recommendations Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yo (As my man Rocky sez): I have been offered a position in San Antonio, Texas. Hence, I am leaving the lovely confines of Syracuse, NY. I will miss the lovely winters in Syracuse and the 200 inches of snow per annum. But, I liked the Dinosaur Barbecue Diner and other eateries, the Finger Lakes region and miscellaneous wineries (since I am a wino), and Adirondack Mountains. The Syracuse China Outlet Store was nice and I stocked up on the latest china and cups. Please recommend schools in San Antonio. Prefer reality based training. But, will consider all schools e.g., Boxing, Hapkido, Eskrima/Arnis, Kick Ass Training, Eye Gouge, Hair Pulling and Groin Shot training. I heard there is also a Kuk Sool Won school(s) there, but again prefer more urban type training vs. traditional bow and wow !! Cheers, Ken McDee... Your crosseyed, bucktoothed, bowlegged, pigeontowed, hunchback with slight drooling problem friend. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! --__--__-- Message: 14 From: DenverAMA@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:29:51 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Personal motto's and motivators To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Heather! Did you have fun at the Sama Sama? "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ----Original Message It was amazing to say the least.. huge understatement. Well planned and organized, high level instruction from the Tuhons and high level Guros in the Sayoc Org. ( www.sayoc.com ) Of course Tuhon Ray had his phenomenal share in that ... I am sure you will hear more from him. Peak in on the forum notes on the site, it covers more specific things that make this particular training so unique and spectacular. It is the best training money you will spend, period. The quality of instruction is a bang for its buck, it should be guaranteed, its that good. I hope to see you there next year (its always the 4th of July w.end), you wont be able to miss this for too much longer Leo ;-) We had a great group that headed out there, all of us had a good time and learned a TON. Not just technical ... training, of course... challenges on many levels. Lots of fun with the annual "games." Meeting and training with new people and others you have in the past. There are so many practitioners from other systems represented and we all get along! I dont have anything but good to say, and its all with gratitude to those who pulled that level of instruction and organization together. .. of course starting with TUHON. Talk to you soon. --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Danzig Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:17:32 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Phil, I was actually gonna reference that interview. In it, the interviewer saw some sticks lying around and asked Danzig what they were for. He said, like a man with a Napoleonic complex, "for killing people". What a dork. Im pretty sure that he studied JKD and Eskrima with Jerry Poteet. I saw his band right around the time of that interview. Testosterone was pouring off his diminutive frame. Very goofy. Like a goth version of Spinal Tap. But back to the FMAs... Best, Steve Kohn     >From: Phil Hurcum >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Danzig >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) > >Glenn Danzig was interviewed by Rolling Stone in the >late 80's for the Lucifuge album and in the interview >he was waving around what he called a "filipino death >stick." Apparently he was training FMA, Modern Arnis I >think. >The guy is 5 foot dwarf inches though and he does not >look like he is weight training for stamina. Too big >to fight very long maybe. >I can't believe he wrote music for Roy Orbison among >others, very accomplished songwriter. Weird. > > >===== > >Phil Hurcum >.:Head Instructor:. >Arkangel Martial Arts and Combat Sciences >"Honour, Duty, Obligation, and Discipline" > >www.arkangelmartialarts.com > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up – now 2 months FREE! --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "steve kohn" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Crappola Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:30:38 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Frank, This gentleman deserves respect from all of us to be sure...but your arguement makes no sense. By your rationale, he could disrupt a church service (or anything at all) because of his bravery. His bravery/politics and the topics discussed in this forum have nothing to do with each other. Having said that,I do agree that our troops must be supported no matter what. Period. Regards, Steve Kohn     >From: Thompsonf@aol.com >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Crappola >Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:50:13 EDT > >SPC Taimanglo is over in Iraq defending our country. Therefore, in my >opinion, he has the right to say whatever the hell he wants on this forum,  whether >it be about training or politics. Specialist, thank you for everything  that >you're doing and please continue to contribute to this list. Thanks. --  Frank, >Sayoc FS >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in Technology 101. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest