Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:12:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #282 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: 90% of fights go to the ground (Benjamin Lawson) 2. Re: Paete Arnis Tournament July 25 (isagani abon) 3. Parker's Kenpo and Escrima (Ronald Mckinnie) 4. RE: Fights going to the ground. (Karol Krauser) 5. Garimot Seminar Advertisement Update (al sardinas) 6. Pentjak Silat Manyang (Magtutudlo) 7. Poll (Magtutudlo) 8. Re: 90% of fights go to the ground (Mike Casto) 9. Automatic Arnis, was Paete Arnis Tournament (Ray Terry) 10. Bodyguard (K.S. Grillion) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:19:12 -0500 From: Benjamin Lawson To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] 90% of fights go to the ground Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm not of the caliber or experience of anyone here, but the 90% figure always seemed to be about even with my observations. It always seems that either there is a clash and someone goes down accidentally, or that one or both guys realize that they really don't want to be getting punched so they crash and fall to the ground. Then again, I lead a pretty uneventful life (not an LEO or bouncer or anything) and haven't been around many fights, especially those that people were really intending to be life-or-death. Joe Talmadge wrote: >life have gone to the ground. Seemingly not by choice. Often, it's just the >result of a clash: both guys try to aggressively drive forward, basically end >up in a standing grapple and end up hitting the ground. Or one guy takes a >wild swing that misses, and his forward momentum takes him into the other guy. >Obviously, the more training you have, the more likely you are to be able to >beat the percentages. But I've found that when one person -- or both people -- >are hellbent on developing forward drive without enough counterbalancing >control, it's VERY easy to end up on the ground. In sparring, it's different >-- things don't start so close-up and explosively, so it's easier to control >things through footwork and effective offense. > > > I don't know about actual percentages, but most fights I've witnessed > in real --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:58:49 -0700 (PDT) From: isagani abon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Paete Arnis Tournament July 25 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Gat Puno Abon, What a name a coincidence that my surname was Abon and i came from Palawan. As a Guro of Rapido Realismo and in behalf of Punong Guro Henry E. Espera, we wanted to send you our respect as a Fighters ng Filipino Sining (Arts). but we also wanted to say that you dont know us. and like you we are also doing Seminar and our Basic Instructorship Seminar for only Two Weeks will be on November 29, December 12, 2004. well this article was to answer your comments and challenging us. first, although PG Espera is also a season and old fighter like you which also fight challenges before but now he realize that he does not need to prove himself anymore but you as a Kapwa Filipino was so rude to says this comments and challenge as through this forum.Well, your not the only one who fight with real stick, we also do . although we wanted to go to Laguna this 25 either to fight or to watch but unfortunately we cant. Master Henry was in Bicol for emergency since last sunday.I wanted to say na Hindi mo kami kilala at hindi mo alam ang pinanggalingan, pinag aralan at pamamaraan namin ng Pagtuturo, as well as we dont know you. If you have any schedule Tournament after july 25, we will try to compete. although your Largo Mano rules wont fit our styles, we spar similarly like dogbrothers to experience & simulate real fights but were using padded for safety. originally, we trained to defend ourselves and prepare for real attacks and dont have time for this fool comments and tournaments, We dont need it to learn, you can simulate a real attack through real simulation scenario and situational based drills added by full contact, limited rules sparring ( we only avoid contact to the eyes, groin, and throat) using the sticks and whole body (empty hand) to terminate our opponents. and not in a Tournaments sport minded fights. Rapido Realismo is a traditional Arts that we only teach few students about real combat using Weaponry ( Kali) and Empty hand (Sabakan), we respect our Master Decisions as soon as he come backs, We are not afraid of anyone and as confidence as you are about your arts, but We are so respectful about our master decisions. We have are holdings Seminar to expanse and promote the Rapido Realismo, which we as a students of Punong guro, this is our way os saying thanks. But this doesn't mean they will easily get the Certificate. Like i said RRMA is a traditional arts and we wanted to be it, they pay for their training and need to train hard to get it. No assurance of issuing a documents. and we are ready to prove to them if we are worhthy Instructors, fighters and our System. We only wanted them to learn a new art direct from the Philippines and share our knowledge like yours. and lets leave it to them, we are not forcing any one to come. If they want to attend then find and thanks, and if not fine also. If you dont learn how to respect others and as a both Pilipino its a big issue, how can we respect you. We are fortunate that we have FMA friends like the Groups of Kali Ilustrisimo, Orabes Heneral escrima, Automatic Arnis ( Which where master henry learned and based his arts, and taught to him by non-other than the master and founder of those arts.), Arnis Defense Silat, Arnis Lanada, Doce Pares, Lameco Escrima, Modern Arnis, Pekiti Tirsia and others, and we all share RESPECTS ideas, and experiences through collaborating and friendl sparring, and discussion and helping all FMA to promote But this is the only time Master Henry decided to come open. a I thinks i have done and i wanted to end this discussions, We are sending our respect to you and wanted to become friends and hope you will respect us too. Thanks for the comments and if you have any personal questions contact me through my Perosnal E- mail address combatpamuok@yahoo.com Good lucks my new found friends, lets end this with Respect. Thanks, Guro Isagani Abon Rapido Realismo Martial Arts http://www.angelfire.com/art2/rapidorealismo GatPuno@aol.com wrote: Hi, I just want to remind all of the practitioner interested to visit Paete, Laguna , Philippines this weekend, just confirming the Paete Arnis Tournament is on, July 25 Sunday start at 1 pm. I have little trouble to get the Mayor agree with rules, and finally, I got him agree to it. So as usual, no padded, no gear, Un-padded, may be we can have a good fighter out there, specially those people of Luneta, that offer instructorship for few days. Learn from this tournaments I personally challenging your group before offering a few lesson, ang give out certificate, we have enough so called MC Do Arnis over here in US and Europe, dont add some more please. For few days of training what you get Certificate and falls statement, be real guys.. Again, everyone is welcome, No style, No system, Luzon, Visaya and Mindanao. I think its time to see if you can full it off in the ring your skills. NO age limit, no rank necessary, its just you and your stick against your opponent. Rules is simple, Largo Mano, if you get to close before you get hurt bad, they will break you out, but hey keep your guard, it always attemp to attak you while you are off guard is common. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT International (Garimot Arnis Training International) Laguna Arnis Federation Interantional World Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:46:04 -0400 From: "Ronald Mckinnie" To: Cc: Subject: [Eskrima] Parker's Kenpo and Escrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I seem to have read the same article by Ben Largusa on SGM Parker and his relationship with Villabrille Kali. In our Long Form 7 which I haven't done in a while we have moves that are in close proximity to Escrima( Arnis, Kali ). The individual techniques such as "Five Storms" and " Repeating Storms" bear close if not perfect resemblance to Modern Arnis Angle 1 right handed and Angle 1 Left handed respectively ( I use Modern Arnis Angle reference because that is what I am currently trying to learn when I can afford the lessons). Of course there are more techniques which approximate the Filipino Stick and Blade arts. In fact in that same article Ben states he was ask to take the role of Kato for the Green Hornet. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:33:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Karol Krauser To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Fights going to the ground. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have to agree that alot of fights end up on the ground. I prefer practicing a combination of grappling mixed with silat ground work. I also believe that the concept of flow from the FMA applies to the ground range as well. I have worked with training partners who are skilled grapplers and they often ask what the hell it is I am doing when we work together. I can apply the sensitivity and flow of Kali / Silat along with the inside elbow and knee ranges in a grappling situation and feel pretty comfortable. This said I still enjoy and practice as much straight grappling as I can but at times blend it all together. On a final note it seems grappling on the streets as opposed to grappling in the dojo is extremly different. A friend of mine recently told me about a fight he witnessed in town last year between two JuJitsu stylists. We are here in Hawaii were clothing is somewhat optional and by the time these two individuals were done they were skinned from head to toe. It appears as if it was a totally different game for them as it was no gi, no shirt, and both of them were greased up with sun screen and sweat.There was not hair to pull as short hair and shaved heads are in and no clothes to grab so neither individual could really get the upper hand. My friend told me that after about ten minutes both fighters were exausted and had received more damage from rolling on the hot pavement then they did from each other. I guess neither combatant had the common sense to say "Hey can we take this to the grass?" Of course this is not always the case but it is something to consider. Hormat to all Karol "Ungoy" Krauser __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:11:48 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Garimot Seminar Advertisement Update Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net **Straight from the Source-UPDATE** For those of you with open minds who are seeking practical information on the Philippine Martial Arts, History and Healing, tickets are still available!! We would like to keep this unique event affordable and available to everyone. Because the response has been overwhelming, Speed-Switch and Badmonkee are now offering this event for $100 until the day of the event pre-paid or not! Spectator fees are only $25! (Group and student discounts still apply. Call 510-520-1422 for more information). Original Message: Speed-Switch Entertainment and Badmonkee Productions present a special event, "Straight from the Source" on Saturday, August 7th, 2004. Beginning at 10:00 am at the West-Wind Karate School located on 14th Street and Jefferson in Oakland, California, Speed-Switch and Badmonkee welcome Gat Puno ("Head Chief") Abon Baet, inheritor of the Garimot Arnis system and teacher of the Harimaw Buno. A few notables about Gat Puno Baet: ˇ Inheritor of the Garimot family style of Arnis, a complete art that is over 150 years old and has been in the Baet family for over five generations (www.garimot.com) ˇ From Laguna province in the Philippines, location of the famous "caves of death" and the original Doce Pares organization, of which Felicisimo Dizon was a member (Dizon was the teacher of the late Grandmaster Angel Cabales, founder of Eskrima Serrada) ˇ Started training at the age of seven ˇ Mastered not only Garimot Arnis, but also other systems in Laguna ˇ Teacher of the indigenous grappling art, Harimaw Buno (Tiger Style) of the Philippine Aborigines ˇ Started competing in unpadded, full-contact stick-fighting at the age of sixteen and held the undefeated stick fighting title from 1978-1985 ˇ Founded the P.A.E.T.E Laguna Arnis Federation and Harimaw Buno Federation ˇ Extensive knowledge of the healing art of the Philippines known as "Hilot" ˇ Featured in The Philippine American Journal, Inside Kung Fu and The Karate Voice There will also be a special guest appearance by the one and only Professor Sultan Uddin, PhD, the direct protégé of the late Grandmaster Angel Cabales. Professor Uddin was one of the youngest and the first African-American to become a Master under Angel's system. Recognized worldwide as one of the fastest stick and blade fighters in world, Professor Uddin's skills have been featured in film and television. He was inducted into The World Martial Arts Hall of Fame in March 2000 and currently is an Executive Producer and Promoter in the entertainment industry. This four-hour event will consist of demonstrations of Eskrima Serrada, Garimot Arnis, and the Hilot. After the demonstrations, there will be a Garimot Arnis workshop for participants. A lecture on Philippine Martial Arts and History will be the last segment before lunch. After the lunch break, there will be an open Symposium for any and all questions regarding the material presented. Guests of the event are also invited to a special after-party at La'Zeez Restaurant in San Francisco presented exclusively by Badmonkee Productions. If you are a student, teacher or enthusiast of any martial art, holistic healing or even Philippine Culture, this is a must-attend event for you! The material provided comes straight from the source. This is a rare West Coast appearance. Individual Participant Fee $100 per person Group/Student Discount call for info Spectator Fee $25 per person On the day of the event, cash, cashier's check or money order will be accepted. No personal checks will be accepted! Tickets are on a first-come, first-serve basis and space is limited. To pre-pay, send cashier's check or money order to: Speed-Switch Entertainment PO Box 706 Daly City, CA 94017 For more information, e-mail "speedswitch2004@cs.com" or call 510-520-1422. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Magtutudlo" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:26:58 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Pentjak Silat Manyang Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear John, I couldn't agree with you more. I have a friend (half moslem) back home (Philippines) who studied Pencak Silat Manyang; not only the similarities on the footwork but also with the lead hand and few other strokes. Much addition to Eskrima. As for the stick size? that's the first time I heard it -- I've seen other sizes of wood but the size that you described. In addition, if you the movie "Belly of the Beast" (Steven Seagal) and there was a scene at the lumber yard that few PSMs were showing their forms with swords before the fight (though they lost to -- you know who...). Anyone care to add? Respectfully, ~~Bob~~ p.s. if I can find that old videos of Pencak Silat (an old friend gave it to me), i'll make copies. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Magtutudlo" To: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:48:10 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Poll Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello All! Question(s): "If you happen be a Martial Artist encountering a visually identified physical assault on your body, the best chance to survive is... 1.. strike when the enemy start making provocating statements, because it already means a challenge 2.. strike when the enemy starts making provocating physical contacts (push away your head,body,etc.) 3.. strike when the enemy had his first blow on you, because you don't want to be the one who starts the fight 4.. don't strike as he attack because you believe that it will teach the enemy that violence won't settle anything 5.. don't strike as he attack because you don't want to heat up the situation. I'll tally all the results and post it here. Salamat Po, Bob --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] 90% of fights go to the ground Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First, let me state *my* definition of "go to ground." For me, a fight going to the ground means that someone goes to the ground and continues to fight from there. Some people consider it "going to the ground" if a guy hits the ground even if the fight is already - for all practical purposes - finished (i.e.: one of the fighters is no longer able to mount an effective fight and all that happens on the ground is a pummeling or a restraining). In my personal experience - which only encompasses about a dozen fights and a handful of witnessed fights - the *only* fights that ever went to the ground for me was when I was trying to restrain someone. In fights that I've witnessed that went to the ground it was because: (a) one or more fighters were trying to restrain other fighters (b) the ground environment wasn't conducive to standing (i.e.: mud, ice, etc) (c) the fighters either weren't seriously trying to hurt each other (sibling fights or drunkards blowing off steam) (d) the fighters were very inexperienced - in general or in their standing fight - and didn't know how to finish it before it went to the ground Other people's milage may vary - but that's been my personal experience. Consequently, hearing that the "90%" statistic comes from LEOs isn't surprising at all given that they are most often in a position of trying to restrain someone. In my personal fights, the percentage is something more like 70 - 80% going to the ground - but, as I said before, all the ones that did go to the ground were because I was trying to restrain someone. The fights where I was just trying to finish it ASAP and leave, 0% went to the ground (for me, anyway). Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Lawson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] 90% of fights go to the ground > I'm not of the caliber or experience of anyone here, but the 90% figure > always seemed to be about even with my observations. It always seems > that either there is a clash and someone goes down accidentally, or that > one or both guys realize that they really don't want to be getting > punched so they crash and fall to the ground. > > Then again, I lead a pretty uneventful life (not an LEO or bouncer or > anything) and haven't been around many fights, especially those that > people were really intending to be life-or-death. > > > Joe Talmadge wrote: > > >life have gone to the ground. Seemingly not by choice. Often, it's just the > >result of a clash: both guys try to aggressively drive forward, basically end > >up in a standing grapple and end up hitting the ground. Or one guy takes a > >wild swing that misses, and his forward momentum takes him into the other guy. > >Obviously, the more training you have, the more likely you are to be able to > >beat the percentages. But I've found that when one person -- or both people -- > >are hellbent on developing forward drive without enough counterbalancing > >control, it's VERY easy to end up on the ground. In sparring, it's different > >-- things don't start so close-up and explosively, so it's easier to control > >things through footwork and effective offense. > > > > > > I don't know about actual percentages, but most fights I've witnessed > > in real > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Automatic Arnis, was Paete Arnis Tournament Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If you dont learn how to respect others and as a both Pilipino its a big > issue, how can we respect you. We are fortunate that we have FMA friends > like the Groups of Kali Ilustrisimo, Orabes Heneral escrima, Automatic > Arnis ( Which where master henry learned and based his arts, and taught > to him by non-other than the master and founder of those arts.).... I have received your entry to the FMA FAQ for your own style and will be adding it shortly. Thanks for sending it in. Do you or anyone else know more about Automatic Arnis? That style is not currently documented in our FMA FAQ and it sounds like it would be a good entry. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:04:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "K.S. Grillion" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bodyguard Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Give me a call, I'm in the process of going to school to make this career change full time. K Grillion 618-407-1440 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest