Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:10:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #291 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Poll (Felipe Jocano) (Felipe Jocano) 2. Re: Training (bphillips211@sprintpcs.com) 3. Re: pakal (Todd Ellner) 4. Dormant (Clint Cayson) 5. Re: pakal (Marc Scott) 6. Two quick yips (Marc Denny) 7. Krabi Krabong on DVD (Sidney525@aol.com) 8. Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master's Thesis? (fullofschist@juno.com) 9. Pakal (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Dormant (Ray Terry) 11. I need stix (Andrew Maddox) 12. Re: FMA conditioning (Jeff Harris) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Poll (Felipe Jocano) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bobby, Oh, ok. Thanks for the clarification. it just occurred to me that there would be a wide variety of answers given that many of us on the list come from different countries....but anyway...... I didn't find your questions to be stilted or awkward. In fact, the way you phrased them made me think...what wasn't said up front, especially with regards to #4 & #5? So I choose not to strike first....but what else can I do apart from striking? Hence my answer - which by the way are the things I would like to work on more myself. I liked the way you said them actually - made me think more about my art, my orientation to conflict and in general how I would approach similar situations, which, while not going to physical confrontation, are certainly stressful enough. Given the answers coming up with regards to your poll, I think you're doing a good job. Keep it going!!! With respect and friendship, Bot P.S. I'm looking forward to hearing from you about how the answers can be taught both theoretically and realistically. I'm always looking forward to new teaching ideas... --- Bobby Indas wrote: > Hey Bot, > > To answer your first question, No sir. It is not my > intention to make > such a "general poll" for the list or for the FMA > forum. My sincere > apologies to all members of this forum if these > questions are too > obscure and awkward. My point was to get some ideas > from different > experts and master who had or have not encountered > real fight or similar > situations in life. Rest assured that these answers > will be taught > theoretically and someday these can be applied > realistically. And I > will learn from it for sure. And thanks for > pointing that out for me. > > Respectfully, > Bobby Indas > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:56:56 +0000 (GMT) From: bphillips211@sprintpcs.com Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi John, Sorry to chime in on this late. Here are a few things I love in the way of conditioning ( I'm a Largo Mano guy FYI). 1. Pipes are good. I personally have found that as my high rep lifetime striking count goes further and further up I'm increasing the weight. Now my heavy pipes are steel filled with sand, the light ones are just steel. I hope to get up to cement-filled or lead filled in another year or so. I try to do aprox 1000-2000 cuts daily with the pipes. After this sort of training it will make a hardwood or rattan stick seem like nothing and massively increase your power. 2. Get Full KOntact kettlebell's a DVD by Steve Cotter. He has some awesome training ideas for martial artists. I like to take a 16 kg. kettlebell and hang it off my live hand while doing my strikes with a long kamagong stick. This builds core strength like nobody's business. Just switch hands fairly often! 3. Use weights to improve your footwork. Calisthenics are awesome for skillbuilding and initial conditioning but serious players may need more as they get on. Rack a set of kettlebells at the chest or shoulders (clean position) or use weight plates/sandbags, whatever, and do your footwork. Repeat till you puke. Very good stuff. I like to rack a 16kg KB on each shoulder and dance the triangle (male/female, corto/largo) , work the diamond... you can use it for dips dodges etc. Possibilities are really endless. Enjoy the training... Brian -------------------- This message was sent from a PCS Phone from Sprint. Get a free PCS Mail account! Sign up via the Web Browser on your Sprint Phone or at http://www.sprintpcs.com. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 07:43:30 -0700 From: Todd Ellner To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: pakal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ray, don't know if this has been discussed lately or not but just wanted to > ask different guros' about inverted grip with blade edge facing away from > and toward them and why the preference. I know that this in some circles this is considered the ONLY acceptable way to hold a knife. The people who believe this say that it prevents most disarm attempts by opponents. Eh. I don't know. Every reasonable grip has its uses with the right sort of tool. Some make less sense depending on the particular knife. Pretty much the first thing I learned with knives was how to quickly cut up a hand that was trying for a disarm. It's probably just one of those things - a fad that bubbles up and then dies down again. For some people it's probably a marketing thing, a way to put butts on seats at seminars and sell tapes showing the real, ultimate, you've been doing it all wrong all these years secrets. I've never been very good with knives and am about at my limit with "Grab the blunt end. Put the pointy end into the other guy. Keep him from doing the same thing to me." --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:04:53 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Dormant Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I recently started going back to learning Eskrima/Arnis after 23 years of hibernation and I would like to ask the group - sort of pointers on what to expect. I still remember some basic strikes and among other things. Locks, grips and disarming are those things I can't remember anymore and my left hand doesn't cooperate with me when switching the stick I am using on my right hand. I know it's a long way... but your ideas will somehow put me back in the right track. Anything that would help me sort out things. Salamat Po! Clint V. Cayson(tm) Boca Raton Resort & Club 501 E Camino Real Boca Raton, FL 33431 561.447.3204 | 561.869.7784 fax --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Scott Subject: Re: [Eskrima] pakal To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There are numerous application specific reasons to use the pakal grip. Like any other grip there are no good or bad grips simply different grips that allow different objectivs to be met. We first have to look at the reverse grip itself, what does makes it different from the forward grip? Reach is one aspect that is noticible immediately, forward grip does have a bit of a reach advantage in the thrust department. That being said, one can still thrust effectively with the reverse grip with a little time spent understanding the mechanics of the movement. Another difference between the forward and reverse grip is defending our flank and rear, in the forward grip if we face multiple adversaries we need to turn to engage adversaries at our sides, in the reverse grip it is far easier to reach those adversaries, without turning our back on the adversary in front of us. The pakal grip is also far harder to defend against if we use it in a tip first orientation, by that I mean that every strike comes at the adversary tip first. You often see people with knives in reverse grip slashing with the blade out, this form of slashing is easier to defend as the blade is the last thing to pass the body, in a tip in orientation the blade is the first thing to pass the body. With the blade in we also get a strong ripping, and shearing movement from the action of the inside edge of the blade making contact with the adversaries limbs. I am actually running a seminar on these ideas next month in Los Angeles for more info: http://www.stick-and-knife.com/pakal.html for info on a method of fighting which uses this method please see http://www.florofighting.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:44:51 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Two quick yips Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof: > I just wanted to comment on the new MTV "Muay Thai" reality show. I think a > better idea would be something along the lines of "True Life: I'm a Dog > Brother"...or maybe "Holy Crap...This Filipino stuff is dangerous"...Perhaps > "My life in Cebu getting the Sh!@#$&** wailed out of me with a stick" > > I mean, I would tune in weekly to see Crafty whomp some poor sucker from > Fresno 'upside the head each week at five....I'd even pay, come to think of > it...to watch, not participate. > > Baboy That's funny. Who do I talk to at MTV? > What type of conditioning is recommended for some one who is new to the art > of Kali. I've noticed that I had to work on my forearm strength, but what > other types of conditioning do some of you do. I lift weights and do cardio > machines, but I know this isn't specific to the training. Any help would be > appreciated. > Peace Out > John You may wish to consider including some good rotator cuff exercises such as those suggested in "The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff Solution" from "Health for Life". Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:44:58 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Krabi Krabong on DVD Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Has anyone seen any Krab-Krabong instructional on DVD that is available? I do have the Dog bros. Krabi Krabong on video from a couple of years ago. salamat Sid --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "fullofschist@juno.com" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:44:56 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master's Thesis? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Witchdoctor email: fullofschist@juno.com To: Eskrima digest Subject: Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master’s Thesis? I’m new to the FMA scene, but I couldn’t help but notice the generally high level of education present among practitioners. In fact, in my very first communication with someone in the scene, I came across a theoretical physicist---the field which was my first love.. Anyway lemme throw this one out there: Searching the web, it seems that there has not been much if any biomechanical research with respect to FMA-specific training. I am thinking along the lines of studying the motions and muscles involved in stickwork. Sure, early on the maxim "work hard with what you’ve got and you’ll get results" works just fine. So does weight training the muscles(and their complements) that get sore in repetitive drilling. But at the higher levels, I think quantitative analysis of the movements may become a useful training tool. As an analogy from training for bicycle racing(or any other aerobic sport), early on one can train just below one’s anaerobic threshold ‘by feel’ and gain significant improvement, however at higher levels of fitness a heart-rate monitor can be essential because often one can get the heart-rate up one or two beats per minute more than by ‘feel’ alone and still be just below the threshold, allowing a higher level of endurance conditioning to ensue. Similarly, I think being able to map the speed and power throughout one’s swings would allow development of a specific training regimen to improve them. For example, with two people that hit with the same impact velocity, one might develop most of it early in the swing, from the shoulders and triceps, the other later on, from the wrists and forearms. Mapping and analysis of this would allow one to train for a balance. (That’s what its all about, isn’t it, in everything?) Close-up work obviously requires power to be developed at the beginning of the swing, while a little distance allows the later part to add to it, as well as the fact that if necessary to slightly change the angle of the strike late in the swing (being crafty), it will require strength to overcome the momentum of the stick. Of course the ultimate goal is seamless integration, but understanding and balancing the individual parts is what makes this possible. On the technology side, there are two basic approaches I can think of: The first being a multi-sensor chronograph, similar to what is used to measure a bullet’s speed as it leaves the gun, except with a dozen or more sensors(light beams) rather than the marksman’s two. The problem inherent in this method is that if the angle between the swing and the sensor beams changes, so will the measured velocity(acceleration and power are derived from this mathematically). How significant a change is necessary to cloud the data can be found with simple geometry, but the real-world viability probably depends more on the consistency of one’s swing angle. Another drawback to this approach is the necessity of changing the chronograph’s position for each angle swing. Lastly is the difficulty in the logistics of setting up the sequence of sensors to consistently measure 3-D motion. However, for someone interested in simply measuring speed(and hence acceleration) over a small, linear part of the swing, this method is the most simple. The second method, and I think more practical as well as necessary for the thorough study I propose,, would be sticks with embedded accelerometers. They would have to be self-aligning so as not to be affected by the changing direction of the stick’s movement, and the specific direction could be tracked with a little work(sensing the position of the accelerometer as it rotates or self-aligns). The interaction of the centripetal acceleration with the linear acceleration might need to be nulled out, for something traveling at a constant speed will experience acceleration when it changes direction(i.e. driving around a curve), so the direction-sensing is probably a must.. The data-logging electronics could be embedded in the stick as well to avoid the use of entangling wires, and after the swing the data could be downloaded to a computer via a jack at the base of the stick. The mathematics of deriving velocity and power form time and acceleration can be done with a little computer code, it’s physics 101. The data could be output as a spread sheet containing time, position, velocity, acceleration and power. To make it really nice and easier to visualize, combine it with a time-linked high speed video so one can see the actual position of the stroke as one steps through the data. As a final presentation, combine a 3-D computer model, roatatable to view form all angles, with pointers showing the speed, power & acceleration at each part of the stroke. If the direction is measured as well (probably necessary, see above), include velocity arrows at the data points along the computer model escrimador’s swing. To test the effectiveness of this new analysis tool, do a case study of a dozen people of similar skill levels and let half train ‘by feel’, and half develop specific training based on their swing analysis. Compare the data from their swings before and after the training period to see who improved more. I almost said let ‘em spar, but that has too many psychological components, although if one could find a half dozen pairs of really well-matched sparring partners and split them up for training, this might give some insight(though still a bit qualitative) into the real-world effectiveness of this high-tech method. The technology to do this is already available, it just needs to be put together. No need to call Monster Garage. Oh yeah, in ‘the real world’, the end-product that really matters is strike power upon the human body, so in the before-and-after analyses, beat up a few crash-test dummies. I’m serious. They come with accelerometers already installed, all you have to do is move them to the strike zones. Anyone for a Master’s thesis??? PS I’m a hydrogeologist and would rather spend my time studying groundwater pollution, though I am really interested in what fruits this idea might bear. If it’s still undone by the time I’m skilled enough to get it on with The Dogs, I’ll do it, but that may well be in the next lifetime. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Pakal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Given that we do not know how, or even if, we'll be holding a knife when the feces hits the oscillator it is best to work all grips... heaven, earth, edge in, edge out, (regardless of heaven or earth). Focus on only one grip will just serve to put you at a disadvantage should you ever really need to use your blade. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dormant To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I know it's a long way... but your ideas will somehow put me back in > the right track. Anything that would help me sort out things. Salamat Po! Find a good instructor. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:11:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Maddox To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] I need stix Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey, .us, DC-area folks - I haven't worked my FMA stuff for quite a while, but I've got the itch again, and looking through my stick bag I see a lot of completely blown-out old beaters. So, I need new sticks. Has anyone found any local sources recently (read that "since about 1992"), or are the best places still online? For everybody, where would you order sticks (decent rattan) online? I don't even know who's still in business! Last I checked, Kombat Instruments Ltd was about the best quality/price combo, but I'd be grateful for any suggestions - mail order is fine, obviously. I'll need some for practice, some for sparring, and may even get a practice group started that I'd need to buy a larger number for. SO, if you want to advertise your favorite rattan stick supplier, or yourself, shoot me an e-mail, eh? Selamat po, ND -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net Martial artist? Have a Washington, DC-area connection? check http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DCMartialArts --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Jeff Harris" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:34:20 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: FMA conditioning Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have a question for you list-members. I am almost 50, with 'way too many years of jogging and SCA fighting under my belt before I discovered the FMA. While over-all I am in decent shape, my knees are giving me fits. They hurt *constantly*, especially after resting for any period of time. They have been X-Rayed twice, and I was given a set of exercises to do to supposedly build-up the muscles that are allowing my patella to slide around. Stuff like deep horse stances while leaning back against a wall, etc. So far, I haven't seen much improvement. Do you folks have any suggestions for recovering knee strength? Or can I expect declining functionality (or even replacement knees) in the coming years? Thanx in advance, Jeff Jeffery (Jeff) Harris JLHOnami@mchsi.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest