Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:01:06 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #293 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: I need stix (david foggie) 2. Re: need stix (Kel620@aol.com) 3. Reverse grip (Michael Koblic) 4. RE: Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master's Thesis? (dwayne howie) 5. Wonky knees (Michael Koblic) 6. RE: Pakal (dwayne howie) 7. RE: Money making idea (Bobbe Edmonds) 8. RE: Beer (Bobbe Edmonds) 9. Re: Re: Poll (Felipe Jocano) (Bobby Indas) 10. Sundry answers and comments (Marc Denny) 11. Re; Bimechanics in Kali (Peter Gow) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: david foggie Subject: Re: [Eskrima] I need stix To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If you are lookin for top quality rattan or kamagong then visit the web site of Nilo Limpin www.panlaban.com He has sticks, wooden swords etc and the quaility, craftmanship and price are great. Also, if you are buying a few pairs, he usually will offer a discount. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:58:03 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: need stix Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net KIL http://www.bloodsport.com/product.htm --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:16:17 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Reverse grip Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net These points may be obvious to experts, but, like America, I had to discover them for myself: 1) The reverse grip is the quickest way to deploy a fixed blade carried on the strong side. The speed of deployment may alone be a decisive factor in a confrontation. 2) It is awfully easy to fall on the point of one's own blade in the reverse grip. It is more difficult to stab oneself accidentally in the forward grip. 3) As to the "edge out or in" argument, I surveyed over 50 assorted knives. Only a small minority were suitable do hold "edge in" without feeling insecure in one's grip. 4) Some knives are downright treacherous in the reverse grip. Try holding the "claw" in the reverse grip with the little finger through the hole. Then let accidentally go of the handle. Then treat the cut fingers as necessary after the blade swings around on them (BTW I was not the only idiot who did this, I have seen others). Michael Koblic Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "dwayne howie" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master's Thesis? Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:27:26 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net make sure you have participants using long range and close range techniques, like you said some have more muscle/tendon movement and motion than others.change up and train one in the other to see if there is improvement in thier own range and development while training in the other. >From: "fullofschist@juno.com" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master's >Thesis? >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:44:56 GMT > >From: Witchdoctor >email: fullofschist@juno.com >To: Eskrima digest >Subject: Biomechanics in Kali Training / Anyone for a Master’s Thesis? > >I’m new to the FMA scene, but I couldn’t help but notice the generally high >level of education present among practitioners. In fact, in my very first >communication with someone in the scene, I came across a theoretical >physicist---the field which was my first love.. Anyway lemme throw this one >out there: >Searching the web, it seems that there has not been much if any >biomechanical research with respect to FMA-specific training. > I am thinking along the lines of studying the motions and muscles involved >in stickwork. Sure, early on the maxim "work hard with what you’ve got and >you’ll get results" works just fine. So does weight training the >muscles(and their complements) that get sore in repetitive drilling. But at >the higher levels, I think quantitative analysis of the movements may >become a useful training tool. As an analogy from training for bicycle >racing(or any other aerobic sport), early on one can train just below one’s >anaerobic threshold ‘by feel’ and gain significant improvement, however at >higher levels of fitness a heart-rate monitor can be essential because >often one can get the heart-rate up one or two beats per minute more than >by ‘feel’ alone and still be just below the threshold, allowing a higher >level of endurance conditioning to ensue. Similarly, I think being able to >map the speed and power throughout one’s swings would allow development of >a specific training regimen to improve them. For example, with two people >that hit with the same impact velocity, one might develop most of it early >in the swing, from the shoulders and triceps, the other later on, from the >wrists and forearms. Mapping and analysis of this would allow one to train >for a balance. (That’s what its all about, isn’t it, in everything?) >Close-up work obviously requires power to be developed at the beginning of >the swing, while a little distance allows the later part to add to it, as >well as the fact that if necessary to slightly change the angle of the >strike late in the swing (being crafty), it will require strength to >overcome the momentum of the stick. Of course the ultimate goal is seamless >integration, but understanding and balancing the individual parts is what >makes this possible. >On the technology side, there are two basic approaches I can think of: > The first being a multi-sensor chronograph, similar to what is used to >measure a bullet’s speed as it leaves the gun, except with a dozen or more >sensors(light beams) rather than the marksman’s two. The problem inherent >in this method is that if the angle between the swing and the sensor beams >changes, so will the measured velocity(acceleration and power are derived >from this mathematically). How significant a change is necessary to cloud >the data can be found with simple geometry, but the real-world viability >probably depends more on the consistency of one’s swing angle. Another >drawback to this approach is the necessity of changing the chronograph’s >position for each angle swing. Lastly is the difficulty in the logistics of >setting up the sequence of sensors to consistently measure 3-D motion. >However, for someone interested in simply measuring speed(and hence >acceleration) over a small, linear part of the swing, this method is the >most simple. > The second method, and I think more practical as well as necessary >for the thorough study I propose,, would be sticks with embedded >accelerometers. They would have to be self-aligning so as not to be >affected by the changing direction of the stick’s movement, and the >specific direction could be tracked with a little work(sensing the position >of the accelerometer as it rotates or self-aligns). The interaction of the >centripetal acceleration with the linear acceleration might need to be >nulled out, for something traveling at a constant speed will experience >acceleration when it changes direction(i.e. driving around a curve), so the >direction-sensing is probably a must.. The data-logging electronics could >be embedded in the stick as well to avoid the use of entangling wires, and >after the swing the data could be downloaded to a computer via a jack at >the base of the stick. The mathematics of deriving velocity and power form >time and acceleration can be done with a little computer code, it’s physics >101. > The data could be output as a spread sheet containing time, position, >velocity, acceleration and power. To make it really nice and easier to >visualize, combine it with a time-linked high speed video so one can see >the actual position of the stroke as one steps through the data. As a final >presentation, combine a 3-D computer model, roatatable to view form all >angles, with pointers showing the speed, power & acceleration at each part >of the stroke. If the direction is measured as well (probably necessary, >see above), include velocity arrows at the data points along the computer >model escrimador’s swing. > To test the effectiveness of this new analysis tool, do a case study of a >dozen people of similar skill levels and let half train ‘by feel’, and half >develop specific training based on their swing analysis. Compare the data >from their swings before and after the training period to see who improved >more. I almost said let ‘em spar, but that has too many psychological >components, although if one could find a half dozen pairs of really >well-matched sparring partners and split them up for training, this might >give some insight(though still a bit qualitative) into the real-world >effectiveness of this high-tech method. > The technology to do this is already available, it just needs to be put >together. No need to call Monster Garage. > Oh yeah, in ‘the real world’, the end-product that really matters is >strike power upon the human body, so in the before-and-after analyses, beat >up a few crash-test dummies. I’m serious. They come with accelerometers >already installed, all you have to do is move them to the strike zones. > Anyone for a Master’s thesis??? > >PS I’m a hydrogeologist and would rather spend my time studying >groundwater pollution, though I am really interested in what fruits this >idea might bear. If it’s still undone by the time I’m skilled enough to >get it on with The Dogs, I’ll do it, but that may well be in the next >lifetime. > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:36:15 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Wonky knees Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "I have a question for you list-members. I am almost 50, with 'way too many years of jogging and SCA fighting under my belt before I discovered the FMA. While over-all I am in decent shape, my knees are giving me fits. They hurt *constantly*, especially after resting for any period of time. They have been X-Rayed twice, and I was given a set of exercises to do to supposedly build-up the muscles that are allowing my patella to slide around. Stuff like deep horse stances while leaning back against a wall, etc. So far, I haven't seen much improvement. Do you folks have any suggestions for recovering knee strength? Or can I expect declining functionality (or even replacement knees) in the coming years?" First of all, one has to assume that you have seen a qualified physician who has made a diagnosis of osteoarthritis and not of one of the many kinds of inflammatory arthritides. Secondly, one has to assume that you have stopped doing things that were bad for the knees such as jogging, rope skipping, playing tennis on hard tennis courts and other such. Thirdly, I assume that your Body Mass Index is near 20. Fourthly, how much time have you allowed for the pains to go away? I had to stop all of the above activities for the same reason. After about a year I can now walk down the stairs without pain. BTW, yes, you can expect functional decline not just in your knees, but heart, lungs, brain, you name it. After 25 you are pretty much past your peak. I hope that, if not helpful, you found this message uplifting. Michael Koblic Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "dwayne howie" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Pakal Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:41:44 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hey ray, thanx for posting, i guess in need to tell what training was going on to spark my question, it my help some others. during some situational training i was giving and also assisting with, the focus on the reverse grip with the blade edge away from you was taught. the reason being the use of gross motor skills taking over in a suprise situation. again like u said, you don't know what you'll do when the feces hit the oscillator. >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Pakal >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:38:58 -0700 (PDT) > >Given that we do not know how, or even if, we'll be holding a knife when >the feces hits the oscillator it is best to work all grips... heaven, >earth, edge in, edge out, (regardless of heaven or earth). Focus on only >one grip will just serve to put you at a disadvantage should you ever >really need to use your blade. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Bobbe Edmonds" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:13:49 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Money making idea Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"Hey baboy I will contribute the getting the *&$##@!!!! beat out of me in Cebu version with a stick if you contribute the getting wailed, beaten, and twisted in Indonesia by little brown people half my size segment! -Ungoy"< Pretty much, it was like a hellish version of The Wizard of Oz, with me getting my butt kicked by a really tan division of the lollipop gin! However, those little brown BASTARDS were kind enough to re-align my back...over and over...with their elbows.... Actually, my banana-swilling friend, I think that we would make a great team for such a documentary...I could provide thoughtful, in-depth coverage of Southeast Asian martial arts, and you could fetch me coffee. Let me know what you think. Baboy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bobbe Edmonds" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:17:09 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Beer Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"A San Miguel, I hope. =)"< Hi Ben! My beer of choice will ALWAYS be San Miguel Cerveza Negra, the Philippines’ only dark beer!! Baboy --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bobby Indas" To: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:23:46 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Poll (Felipe Jocano) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bot, Thank you too! It made me realize that what I just did was a sort of intrusion (to some sense). I have not properly clarified my questions to the forum... I lost my etiquette. Rest assured you will hear from me after all this... Daghang Salamat (Thank you very much). You got one more friend. \Bobby Indas\ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Poll (Felipe Jocano) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bobby, Oh, ok. Thanks for the clarification. it just occurred to me that there would be a wide variety of answers given that many of us on the list come from different countries....but anyway...... I didn't find your questions to be stilted or awkward. In fact, the way you phrased them made me think...what wasn't said up front, especially with regards to #4 & #5? So I choose not to strike first....but what else can I do apart from striking? Hence my answer - which by the way are the things I would like to work on more myself. I liked the way you said them actually - made me think more about my art, my orientation to conflict and in general how I would approach similar situations, which, while not going to physical confrontation, are certainly stressful enough. Given the answers coming up with regards to your poll, I think you're doing a good job. Keep it going!!! With respect and friendship, Bot P.S. I'm looking forward to hearing from you about how the answers can be taught both theoretically and realistically. I'm always looking forward to new teaching ideas... --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Sundry answers and comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > 2. Get Full KOntact kettlebell's a DVD by Steve Cotter. Source? > Hello, > > I recently started going back to learning Eskrima/Arnis after 23 years of > hibernation and I would like to ask the group - sort of pointers on what to > expect. I still remember some basic strikes and among other things. Locks, > grips and disarming are those things I can't remember anymore and my left hand > doesn't cooperate with me when switching the stick I am using on my right > hand. I know it's a long way... but your ideas will somehow put me back in > the right track. Anything that would help me sort out things. Salamat Po! > This seems to help some of the people who train with me: "If you ain't the lead sled dog, the view is all the same." > _--__-- > > Has anyone seen any Krab-Krabong instructional on DVD that is available? I > do have the Dog bros. Krabi Krabong on video from a couple of years ago. > > salamat > Sid We intend to have a DVD version of this video out by Xmas. > > For everybody, where would you order sticks (decent rattan) online? I don't > even know who's still in business! Last I checked, Kombat Instruments Ltd > was about the best quality/price combo, but I'd be grateful for any > suggestions - mail order is fine, obviously. I'll need some for practice, > some for sparring, and may even get a practice group started that I'd need > to buy a larger number for. > > SO, if you want to advertise your favorite rattan stick supplier, or > yourself, shoot me an e-mail, eh? We now carry three models of sticks. Go to www.dogbrothers.com and click your way along. > > > I have a question for you list-members. I am almost 50, with 'way too many > years of jogging and SCA fighting under my belt before I discovered the FMA. > While over-all I am in decent shape, my knees are giving me fits. They hurt > *constantly*, especially after resting for any period of time. They have > been X-Rayed twice, and I was given a set of exercises to do to supposedly > build-up the muscles that are allowing my patella to slide around. Stuff > like deep horse stances while leaning back against a wall, etc. So far, I > haven't seen much improvement. Do you folks have any suggestions for > recovering knee strength? Or can I expect declining functionality (or even > replacement knees) in the coming years? A yoga teacher of mine says "Knees are escape valves for hips." The tighter and more imbalanced the hips, the more that too much is asked of the knees. Also look to the foot for imbalances there. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:43:33 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re; Bimechanics in Kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Sir, Thanx for telling us that you are are educated. It might be in your interests to contact some of the universities in the Philipines as it is possible to do a PhD in Arnis there(Possibly in the Physical Education Department - so the work you are interested in might already have been done. Also if you are going to measure angles and acceleration. It may be wise to use the force as the calculation - F=ma --- Force = mass times accelaration. The force can be measured on the object that is being hit. The angles can be calculated by using a video camera of the person hitting taking into account that the video camera can also see the floor as well as the person's arm and stick- end. This will allow you to calculate the angle using the floor as a horizontal line. You can blow the picture up if necessary for accuracy to calculate the angle, but you may find that the angles of force may varu from person to person depending on how much someone rotates their upper body which may be entirely different in a real life situation. This suggestion for your consideration may cut down on some expensive equipment. For exactness on starting and finishing times you can use micro switches which are hit to start and stop, a stop watch or electronic counter. Have Fun. Regards, Peter Gow. _________________________________________________________________ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest