Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 03:01:54 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #305 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Animal fighting ? (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 2. Re: Animal fighting Technique (Gints Klimanis) 3. RE: Tails of woe: knee injury (Karol Krauser) 4. re: Video of cock fighting (Greg Henderson) 5. RE: Tails of woe: knee injury (Stephan Kesting) 6. Seven dead by baseball bats (Bart Hubbard) 7. Catching up! (rockypasiwk) 8. RE: Seven dead by baseball bats (Jared Dame) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Animal fighting ? Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:08:09 +0300 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, check http://www.baduya.com/mpeg/cockfight2.mpg and http://www.foothand.com/gallery/Bali/Tenggaran/MOV01056.MPG (This site also has some other videos about animals, not really animal fighting, but some of them are quite funny) http://www.foothand.com/gallery/gallery.php - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext gints@att.net [mailto:gints@att.net] > Sent: 05 August, 2004 05:11 > To: Eskrima Digest > Subject: [Eskrima] Animal fighting ? > > > This is not exactly FMA, but with all of the discussion of > small blades > such as kerambits and killing targets, I think an inspection > of animal > predation would be worthwhile to those of us generally involved with > speculative combative maneuvers. Those in the military are exposed to > actual combative methods. Perhaps knife fighting techniques > can be learned from watching two big cats in a rumble. > > Does anyone have video clips of animals fighting? I've seen a number > of "Animal Fight Club" sites and even more Animal Rights sites, but > no video. This post was inspired by today's article on > Orangutan boxing, > which is complete with an organgutan scorecard babe. > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5600669/?GT1=4529 > > http://animal.discovery.com/news/afp/20040726/orangutans.html > > http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/archive/fight.html > > I've seen quite a few live animal fights, mostly between dogs and wild > animals. My fish (Bettas from Thailand) occasionally jump > their separator > walls and shred each other in a matter of minutes. Though, I > don't have > any bettas at the moment. > > Any leads on animal video clips or DVDs would be appreciated. > Thanks, > > Gints Klimanis > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:11:57 -0700 From: Gints Klimanis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Animal fighting Technique Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: >> "fullofschist@juno.com" wrote: > > One thing I have learned from animals, is that if the fight gets really down & dirty, Bite! You'd be surprised how strong the jaw is and how much losing a good hunk of muscle will take the fight out of someone. > I escaped my first real tussle with a bite. My neighbor (two years my senior - a big deal when you're 10 or so) had tackled me on the "ice rink" in my side yard during the winter and was pounding me from behind, I think. We was on top of me, and I didn't have the strength to move him with no grip on the ice. I have no idea why his hand was close to my mouth, but I remember taking fleshy "webbing" between his thumb and forefinger between my teeth and biting hard. He yelled, jumped up and inspected his hand on his fast walk back home across the street. I thought I was going to get it worse at the bus stop the next day using such an ungentlemanly move, but he never bothered me after that and likely never told anyone that he was surprised by a younger boy. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 04:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Karol Krauser To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Tails of woe: knee injury Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Crafty, Much thanks for all your information. It sounds as if it has been challenging to say the least. I go in Wednesday to get a second opinion and then next week for the MRI. I suspect its an ACL, LCL, and meniscus injury but I was fortunate enough not to have a huge man fall on my leg when all of this occured. I understand your Hip and SI joint problems as I have them. They can be a real pain in the ass " no pun intended!" I feel fortunate that I practice an art which still allows me to train despite my injuries. I find if I get a good anti-rotational knee brace and work on various sinwali, sparring , locking and trapping techniques. Yeah but it does interfere with BJJ. Thanks for all your information and insight.. and by the way...do you know of any other eskrima players out here on Maui ? I know dogzilla is in Oahu but thats not as easy as one would think to make regular trips there. I have been teaching small groups here but am still looking to find other family member from the FMA to play with. Please let me know if you know of any.. Selamat Karol "Ungoy" Krauser _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Greg Henderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:16:39 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Video of cock fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't normarlly put my thoughts forward but for the last few months I've read a lot of the stuff that's been on eskrima digest but this is gotta take the cake. What's next? kiddie porn? So we can see just how disgusting and cruel a human being can become? Animal cruelty is animal cruelty regardless if its held in Phillipines or seen on video. When the cocks fight in the country they don't wear spurs. Organised cock fighting is done for gambling, not for a sport. If you want to see animals fighting in the wild national geographic I'm surre would have videos on that or some other place that deals with nature. I believe that a lot of systems are so full of themselves and the macho attitudes that is getting taught to new students. Admittedly we learn to survive and use our skills if we have to but there's a lot of skills that are not being taught, eg.humility, patience, love, respect, honour, and the will to help others. I'm not saying that I'm a saint and haven't had my share of real confrontation in a physical sense, as well as an attitude and a chip on my shoulders from hell in the past but I was fortunate enough to train under a grandmaster who taught me that in Eskrima the physical side is only part of the art. A real martial arts teaches you about yourself and how to put the art into your life. _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:07:24 -0700 From: Stephan Kesting Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Tails of woe: knee injury To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Crafty Dog et al Seeing as Karol asked you (not me) about your (not mine) injuries I will keep my own tail of woe short and sweet. I also tell it with a purpose. I live in Canada. 4 years ago in Judo I tried a double leg takedown on a very large fellow, who sprawled. My foot got caught on the mat and there was a loud snapping sound. I went off to the free emergency ward where a young intern decided that since I had a pulse and the X-Ray showed no obvious damage that I OK. I was sent home with advice to come back in a week if it was still bothering me. Not satisfied with this I went to my free sports medicine specialist who sent me for more free X-rays and then, later on the same day, to the best foot surgeon in the city (who was also free). 3 days later I had a free MRI, and several days after that I had free surgery to bolt my foot back together. Free physio followed, along with another free surgery to remove the bolts in my foot installed by the first surgery. It turns out that the injury I had was a 'Lisfranc Fracture-Dislocation" that is difficult to diagnose and very difficult to fix unless it is treated quickly. 100 years ago the 'treatment' was amputation, because this injury does not heal itself. I am very lucky and happy - my foot is 95% of what it once was and I can run, jump, lift heavy weights. Grand total cost to myself: about $25 for some Tylenol 3 tablets. A couple of years later I am at a tournament in Washington State. I see a BJJ guy (you know, tatoos, shaved head, Tshirt with skulls) limping around. I talk to him. He suffered the same injury the same way as me. I don't know the exact details, but the bottom line is that he fell completely through the (large) US health care cracks. The injury had happened over a month ago: he has no cash to get it fixed himself and the health insurance from his work doesn't kick in for another 2 months. In other words he isn't going to get it treated in a timely enough fashion to come anywhere near a full recovery - to have decent recovery this condition needs to be treated within 10 to 14 days on the outside. It was very sad to see this young guy with the same injury as myself who was likely facing crippling injury because he fell through the cracks.bviously I am taking on Crafty's "thank god we don't have nationalized health care!" comment. As a Canadian I recognize that there are problems with nationalized health care, but those problems tend to be hugely exaggerated in the US media. As a frequent user of the Canadian health care system (especially the orthopedic divisions) I tell you thank god that we DO have national health care. Stephan Kesting P.S. - does this mean that you are going to sick your Akita on me the next time I show up at your house Crafty? --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bart Hubbard To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Seven dead by baseball bats Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, I saw two disturbing stories in the news. The first one is from Florida where six people were killed with bats and knives: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/08/bodies.found/index.html The second is from my hometown here in Sacramento where a man went on a rampage with a bat and killed 1 man and injured 6, some of whom were children: http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/10301216p-11221342c.html Sad incidents like these always reinforce my conviction that self-defense against a weapon is perhaps the most important real life technical skill that martial artists need to know. In both of these incidents the attack came out of the blue and was somewhat unavoidable at least at the moment. Gun enthusiasts would be correct in saying that the assailants could have been shot. Dog enthusiasts would also be correct in saying that a guard dog could possibly have deterred the assailants. My concern is about their "hand to hand" against the bat. When I give demos or talks about FMA, I always stress the DOJ stats that say if you are going to be ASSAULTED most likely it will be without a weapon (2/3 w/o weapon, 1/3 w/weapons). But if you are going to be KILLED, it will most likely be with a weapon and close to half of those occur not with guns or vehicles, but with blunt objects, like a bat, and cutting instruments, like knives. How much time does everybody spend on teaching how to defend against a weapon empty handed in a realistic manner? I'm not talking about disarms, because ultimately pursuing those as your primary goal is unrealistic if the opponent really knows how to use the weapon. Do you ever have people spar where one has a weapon and the other has nothing? Does anybody use improvised weapons in sparring? Currently when someone is disarmed in our sparring, I don't stop them. I let them continue fighting unarmed because of the self defense aspect of the sparring. Any thoughts? __________________ Be Cool. Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares - DPI C4 www.capitaldocepares.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "rockypasiwk" To: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Catching up! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Don't have much time lately to tune into as the Eskrima Digest goes, but first I'd like to congratulate the Head Honcho, The Big Cheese, Numero Uno, the grand Pooh-Bah ( sit down Crafty I ain't talking about you!! ) the main man Mr. Ray Terry for a great job for 10 years keeping, this thing of ours going ( as they like to say in my Neighborhood) good job Ray!! Next Ray wrote: > My understanding is that the double construction is used for emphasis. >e.g. if I wanted to say Rocky is really ugly, I'd say Rocky is ugly-ugly. Hey I resemble that remark, resemble that remark! On the bad knee thing always check your feet, I went threw hell a few years ago with a bad left knee, I thought the years of hard fighting and the over abundance of fat the last 7 years had finally caught up to me, I went to one of the best knee surgeons in the country here in Beverly Hills, Michigan, he did Barry Sanders knee and Ishisa Thomas's ankle, after a battery of test, he told me I had incredible looking knees for all the pounding they took from football, Lacrosse, Judo, Kickboxing and what not, he said I had very little wear and tear on my knees, to which my response was " Then why the hell can't I walk" his response was ' That's a good question" . So I went to our family Chiro he looked over the surgeons notes and the x-rays, and was quite puzzled, as I was leaving his office, in the worst pain I have ever had he called me back in, took off my shoes and looked at my feet, after a while he came to the conclusion that I had at one time or another broken my left instep and after years of walking and now being over weight to boot, it was making me step just a slight fraction out of line, but this was putting stress on the knee, he set me up with a pair of very expensive inserts and within a week I was back to normal!! Hey Crafty, wern't you the one that told me real men hurt their knees doing it Doggy Style..... DOAH!!! Rocky --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Seven dead by baseball bats Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:19:01 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I completely concur with you 100%. I will always carry 2+ weapons on my person for just such an occation. Jared -----Original Message----- From: Bart Hubbard [mailto:bhubbard@capitaldocepares.com] Sent: Mon 09-Aug-04 14:15 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: Subject: [Eskrima] Seven dead by baseball bats Hey There, I saw two disturbing stories in the news. The first one is from Florida where six people were killed with bats and knives: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/08/bodies.found/index.html The second is from my hometown here in Sacramento where a man went on a rampage with a bat and killed 1 man and injured 6, some of whom were children: http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/10301216p-11221342c.html Sad incidents like these always reinforce my conviction that self-defense against a weapon is perhaps the most important real life technical skill that martial artists need to know. In both of these incidents the attack came out of the blue and was somewhat unavoidable at least at the moment. Gun enthusiasts would be correct in saying that the assailants could have been shot. Dog enthusiasts would also be correct in saying that a guard dog could possibly have deterred the assailants. My concern is about their "hand to hand" against the bat. When I give demos or talks about FMA, I always stress the DOJ stats that say if you are going to be ASSAULTED most likely it will be without a weapon (2/3 w/o weapon, 1/3 w/weapons). But if you are going to be KILLED, it will most likely be with a weapon and close to half of those occur not with guns or vehicles, but with blunt objects, like a bat, and cutting instruments, like knives. How much time does everybody spend on teaching how to defend against a weapon empty handed in a realistic manner? I'm not talking about disarms, because ultimately pursuing those as your primary goal is unrealistic if the opponent really knows how to use the weapon. Do you ever have people spar where one has a weapon and the other has nothing? Does anybody use improvised weapons in sparring? Currently when someone is disarmed in our sparring, I don't stop them. I let them continue fighting unarmed because of the self defense aspect of the sparring. Any thoughts? __________________ Be Cool. Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares - DPI C4 www.capitaldocepares.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Capital Doce Pares - DPI C4 www.capitaldocepares.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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