Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #308 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Knife Fighting and Dim Mak (Clint Cayson) 2. DBMA Training Group in Maui- sort of (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Knife Fighting and Dim Mak (Andrew Maddox) 4. Re: Knife Fighting and Dim Mak (Phil Elmore) 5. Re: Knife Fighting and Dim Mak (Mike Casto) 6. Re: Sensitive issue.... (Ray Terry) 7. re Western Historical European Swordsmanship Angles (John Chow) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:49:41 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Knife Fighting and Dim Mak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all. I have questions about the effectiveness of Dim Mak against Knife Fighting? Because I went to a local Kung Fu School and saw few demonstrations on Dim Mak defense against knife fighting? Doesn't really tell us audience that time if it was Filipino style or other knife fighting skills or it could be just few tricks how to counter and disarm an opponent using a knife. Anyway, if it's an expert fighter or knows FMA for that purpose. I would like to know also if Sayoc Kali has had this kind of experience(s) or other FMA practitioners demonstrated this to their students. Thanks Clint --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:03:35 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] DBMA Training Group in Maui- sort of Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof: > From: Karol Krauser > Crafty, , , , > Thanks for all your information and insight.. > and by the way...do you know of any other eskrima > players out here on Maui? I know Dogzilla is in Oahu > but thats not as easy as one would think to make > regular trips there. > > I have been teaching small groups here but am still > looking to find other family member from the FMA to > play with. Please let me know if you know of any.. > > Selamat > > Karol "Ungoy" Krauser Daniel Andersson is a Training Group Leader in Maui. He has recently been getting into MMA more, but feel free to get in touch with him at: 808-572-6975 808-264-1298 Email: mrravethewave@hotmail.com yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:37:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife Fighting and Dim Mak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Clint Cayson wrote: >I have questions about the effectiveness of Dim Mak against Knife Fighting? Hmm. I'd venture to say there are a fair number of people on this list who would have questions about the effectiveness of Dim Mak. Period. Count me among the skeptics. >Because I went to a local Kung Fu School and saw few demonstrations on >Dim Mak Well, a lot of this depends on what they/you mean by "Dim Mak" - is it Dillman-style "Pressure Point Fighting" (which I don't think anyone has ever demonstrated in a public, realistic fighting situation, although I could be wrong), or is it the even more mystical "poison touch" or some kind of "chi projection"? All of the above tend to set my personal BS meter off. But that might just be me. There are certain things that you can affect with pressure point manipulation, I've learned a few and had some done on me, including one very strange knock-out point that left me dizzy and seeing gray with just light pressure on it. But the subject has to be relatively static to realy apply these (except for things like "whack the back of the guy's hand and he's likely to drop his knife"), they just aren't intended for use in "alive" fighting against a moving, resisting opponent. And as for the whole "touch a person on this or that meridian at a certain time of day during a specific phase of the moon to have him die 4 days later" family of "Dim Mak", well... Ciao, afm -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net Martial artist? Have a Washington, DC-area connection? check http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DCMartialArts --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Elmore Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife Fighting and Dim Mak To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Real" Dim Mak is simply learning where the most vulnerable points in the body lie -- nerves, etc. -- and targeting these vulnerable points when they are offered. It need not be some maner of poison dead touch or no-touch-knockout silliness. Phil www.themartialist.com -------------- - Phil Elmore --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife Fighting and Dim Mak Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:24:44 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net And with regards to "Knife Fighting vs. Dim Mak" - well, as usual it will come down to the skills/abilities of the fighters, the environment, friends, and luck. But my money'd be on the knife fighter anytime his opponent is unarmed. I might, on occasion, lose my money but that's how I'd bet. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Elmore" To: Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife Fighting and Dim Mak > "Real" Dim Mak is simply learning where the most vulnerable points in the body lie -- nerves, etc. -- and targeting these vulnerable points when they are offered. It need not be some maner of poison dead touch or no-touch-knockout silliness. > > Phil > www.themartialist.com > > > > > -------------- > - Phil Elmore > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sensitive issue.... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The purpose of this message is to gather information about a former pentjak silat practioner named Suryadi Jaffri. I was told (by my sources) that he passed away in 1998 under a "....misadvanture with Mr. Leo Gaje...". I was hoping to confirm the information that I have and if anyone had any more detailed information about the gentleman in question, it would be much appreciate. I only wish to know the circumstances and conditions of Mr. Jaffri's passing. This may be a sensitive issue with people who know Mr. Gaje and I don't wish to show any disrespect or ill-will towards Mr. Gaje or anyone associated with him or anyone who supports him and his art form. If anyone could direct me to any information and e-mail me privately about the topic above, I would be very grateful. > I doubt it. I believe that Eddie and Leo were friends and trained together at times. Eddie returned to Sumatra and I don't believe they met again after that. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:31:09 +1000 From: John Chow Organization: Oracle Corporation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re Western Historical European Swordsmanship Angles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Rez, I teach Kalis Ilustrisimo and Lameco Eskrima, but when I teach beginners, I have been using a simplified angle system for many years, which is similar to the one you expounded. Nobody in Kali Ilustrisimo clan complained because I made it clear that it is not the Kalis Ilustrisimo 12 Strike pattern, but is my own creation for teaching beginners, but I got quite a bit of flak from non Kalis Ilustrisimo people. I am very happy you have a similar one too, backed up by historical record, hopefully. This is mine, explained from your terminology (the main difference is I start with vertical strikes first, and I had originally consider the vertically up strike as Strike #2, but dropped that when I realise beginners find it difficult):- #1 - Vertical cut straight down at head, from open position. #2 - Vertical cut straight down at head, from closed position. (difference!) (I found that beginners have difficulty twisting their hand/arm to effect a vertical upward strike) #3 - Outside to Inside from High to Low attack cutting the opponent from his left shoulder down to his right hip. ie. diagonally down from open side. #4 - Right shoulder to left hip ie diagonally down from closed side. #5 - Horizontal cut from left shoulder to right shoulder #6 - Horizontal cut from right shoulder to left shoulder #7 - Outside to Inside from Low to High attack cutting the opponent from his left hip up to his right shoulder #8 - Inside to Outside from Low to High attack cutting the opponent from his right hip up to his left shoulder This is my Basic 8 Strikes Pattern. It has absolutely no thrusts. This omission is not due to oversight or lack of knowledge that there are thrusts, nor lack of appreciation of the value of thrusts, as some critics have inferred. My idea is that "Strikes are Strikes, and should be Strikes, and should be taught as Strikes and should not be confused with Thrusts". Most Eskrima styles put Thrusts into Striking patterns. This may be confusing to beginners, in my opinion. I believe that Thrusts should be taught as Thrusts. In deference to critics of my 8 Strikes Pattern, I certainly do have Thrusts, and plenty of them too, instead of the usual 3 thrusts out of the 12 Strikes patterns (Kalis Ilustrisimo has 5 Thrusts out of the 12 Strikes pattern, thereby giving importance to the value of Thrusts, which a certain uninformed critic from a certain local Eskrima instructor failed to realise). My 'simplified' Thrusting pattern is 18 Thrusts, with a few extended Thrusts using what I call "Dos Punte". Although this is far more than the standard 5 Thrusts in the Kalis Ilustrisimo pattern, it is mainly based on Kalis Ilustrisimo. I do not usually teach this Thrusting pattern and I hold it in reserve only for the closest students. It is not meant to replace Kalis Ilustrisimo, nor is it taught in preference to the Kalis Ilustrisimo, which is what I always teach. Can you give me the historical reference for this 8 Strikes pattern please? It would be interesting to know what other sword/fencing masters have developed before me, and why they settled on this pattern. I have my own ideas about it and why I settled on it. Thanks in advance. regards, John Chow Kalis Ilustrisimo and Lameco Eskrima. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest