Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:07:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #312 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Judo Throw Saves Man From Bold Bear (Ken Grubb) 2. Re: Bear Attack (Scott Kinney) 3. Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) (Clint Cayson) 4. RE: Judo Throw Saves Man From Bold Bear (Jared Dame) 5. RE: Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) (Jared Dame) 6. Re: Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) (Mike Casto) 7. Realistic knife work in the movie " The Village" (David Whitley) 8. Bears and angles. (Young Forest) 9. RE: Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Buz Grover) 10. Schools or people in the Norcross, GA area? (Michael J. Davis) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ken Grubb" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Judo Throw Saves Man From Bold Bear Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:23:27 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reminds me of the John West Salmon video clip. Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Scott Kinney" To: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:01:28 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bear Attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bravo to Mr. Yamaguchi! 170 cm is about 5ft. 6.in., by the way. Scott Kinney Amateur Barbarian ----- Original Message ----- ...snip.... > At around 3:50 p.m., Keiichi Yamaguchi, 63, a resident of Matsuda, Kanagawa > Prefecture, was picking mushrooms on a mountain in Omachi, Nagano > Prefecture, when an Asiatic black bear suddenly attacked him, police said. > > The bear bit Yamaguchi on the hand and left thigh and he responded by > hitting it on the nose and in the stomach. When he used a judo technique to > hurl the bear, it ran away from the scene. The bear was about 170 > centimeters long, police said. > > I wonder what hand techniques were used to strike the nose and stomach > And 117 centimeters? > Greg --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:14:05 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Baboy, First things first, seldom people I know would like to be called "baboy". In my country, it's an insult to call a person that name but I guess there are some good things about the name. Namely the skin is much closer to humans and it can be domesticated along with other animals (i.e. dogs, cats .. etc.). Anyway, thanks for that wonderful and logical evaluation between 'Dim Mak and Knife Fighting". I am now a firm believer that knife skills can not or shall I say is NOT easily taken lightly (forgive my ignorance). The comparison between the two depends on skills not by advantages and disadvantages. I was for some instant observation between a relatively expert fighters can be a good play to watch. Have you had any experience or experiences or in your school fighting (not real knife) using you bare hands...? I mean no holds bared fight or demonstrations? Because I haven't heard this to schools I know. Most of them they are demonstrating their advantages rather than showing what would be the outcome if the opponent is an expert. I mean an instructor would say ... "strike" then he knows what would be the next move to disarm an opponent easily because it's been orchestrated? Just my thoughts. Thanks again. Respectfully, Clint p.s. when I was a kid my friends used to call me "ILAGA" (Rat) because they have a hard time catching me or chasing me for that matter. Thanks for the nostalgia. --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Judo Throw Saves Man From Bold Bear Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:45:04 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Loved that clip! Redirection at its finest! Jared Ridgecrest, Ca -----Original Message----- From: Ken Grubb [mailto:ken_grubb@yahoo.com] Sent: Mon 16-Aug-04 03:23 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Judo Throw Saves Man From Bold Bear Reminds me of the John West Salmon video clip. Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima valTime: 16 Aug 2004 14:40:03.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA374A60:01C4839E] Reminds me of the John West Salmon video clip. Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:46:24 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maybe I missed the description of this one, but what does "baboy" mean? inquiring minds want to know. Jared Ridgecrest, CA -----Original Message----- From: Clint Cayson [mailto:Ccayson@bocaresort.com] Sent: Mon 16-Aug-04 10:14 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: Subject: [Eskrima] Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) Baboy, First things first, seldom people I know would like to be called "baboy". In my country, it's an insult to call a person that name but I guess there are some good things about the name. Namely the skin is much closer to humans and it can be domesticated along with other animals (i.e. dogs, cats .. etc.). Anyway, thanks for that wonderful and logical evaluation between 'Dim Mak and Knife Fighting". I am now a firm believer that knife skills can not or shall I say is NOT easily taken lightly (forgive my ignorance). The comparison between the two depends on skills not by advantages and disadvantages. I was for some instant observation between a relatively expert fighters can be a good play to watch. Have you had any experience or experiences or in your school fighting (not real knife) using you bare hands...? I mean no holds bared fight or demonstrations? Because I haven't heard this to schools I know. Most of them they are demonstrating their advantages rather than showing what would be the outcome if the opponent is an expert. I mean an instructor would say ... "strike" then he knows what would be the next move to disarm an opponent easily because it's been orchestrated? Just my thoughts. Thanks again. Respectfully, Clint p.s. when I was a kid my friends used to call me "ILAGA" (Rat) because they have a hard time catching me or chasing me for that matter. Thanks for the nostalgia. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima is to schools I know. Most of them they are demonstrating their advantages rather than showing what would be the outcome if the opponent is an expert. I mean an instructor would say ... "strike" then he knows what would be the next move to disarm an opponent easily because it's been orchestrated? Just my thoughts. Thanks again. Respectfully, Clint p.s. when I was a kid my friends used to call me "ILAGA" (Rat) because they have a hard time catching me or chasing me for that matter. Thanks for the nostalgia. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The unfortunate truth about knife attacks is that you're usually bleeding before you realize there's a blade involved at all - if you ever do. A friend of mine was a bouncer in a club. He was escorting a man out. The man turned on him and attacked. My friend took a few shots to the abdomen but ignored them since they weren't real powerful. He managed to restrain and subdue the guy - by throwing him through a window if memory serves. *Then* he noticed that he was bleeding. The guy hadn't been punching him in the gut - he'd been stabbing him with a blade. The stabs hadn't hit any vital organs and blood loss was the most serious problem my friend was facing. He got medical attention quick enough that he survived and, of course, the attacker went to jail for assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, and a few other charges. But had things went just a little different, my friend would have died. This is very difficult to simulate in a training environment - though not impossible. About the only way to do it is to have several people attacking you and one has a knife but you don't know who it is. If you're simulating a one-on-one fight then have the attackers attack you one at a time. But the things to look for in this type of scenario training aren't "how do I defend against the knife attack?" but rather "how do I perceive the knifer before I see the knife?" This can start training your awareness to people's body language - especially when they're trying to conceal or draw a weapon. Being able to read those items, then, becomes your trigger. Ideally, you defend yourself against a knife attack *before* the knife even comes into play. Of course, *ideally* you're able to completely avoid the physical confrontation in the first place. I was at an event once in a large crowd. I turned around and the guy behind me was reaching into the left side of his jacket with his right hand. Before my conscious awareness had even registered what was happening, my reflexes had kicked in. I checked the guy's elbow with my left hand and slapped him in the chest with my right hand where his right hand was inside the jacket (the slap wasn't hard, per se, I was just feeling what his hand was doing). When I didn't feel a weapon, I apologized and moved on. I'd rather be safe (and possibly borderline paranoid) than surprised - especially if the surprise might injure/kill me or someone else. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Cayson" To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... (Bobbe Edmonds) > Baboy, > > First things first, seldom people I know would like to be called "baboy". In > my country, it's an insult to call a person that name but I guess there are > some good things about the name. Namely the skin is much closer to humans and > it can be domesticated along with other animals (i.e. dogs, cats .. etc.). > Anyway, thanks for that wonderful and logical evaluation between 'Dim Mak and > Knife Fighting". I am now a firm believer that knife skills can not or shall > I say is NOT easily taken lightly (forgive my ignorance). The comparison > between the two depends on skills not by advantages and disadvantages. I was > for some instant observation between a relatively expert fighters can be a > good play to watch. > Have you had any experience or experiences or in your school fighting (not > real knife) using you bare hands...? I mean no holds bared fight or > demonstrations? Because I haven't heard this to schools I know. Most of them > they are demonstrating their advantages rather than showing what would be the > outcome if the opponent is an expert. I mean an instructor would say ... > "strike" then he knows what would be the next move to disarm an opponent > easily because it's been orchestrated? Just my thoughts. Thanks again. > > > Respectfully, > > Clint > > p.s. when I was a kid my friends used to call me "ILAGA" (Rat) because they > have a hard time catching me or chasing me for that matter. Thanks for the > nostalgia. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "David Whitley" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:33:51 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Realistic knife work in the movie " The Village" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Saw "The Village" yesterday. one scene shows what i imagine a REAL knife attack to be like. David Whitley, RKC [IMAGE] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:47:35 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Bears and angles. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >The bear bit Yamaguchi on the hand and left thigh and he responded by >hitting it on the nose and in the stomach. When he used a judo technique to >hurl the bear, it ran away from the scene. The bear was about 170 >centimeters long, police said. > >I wonder what hand techniques were used to strike the nose and stomach >And 117 centimeters?  170 centimeters is about 5'6"  And, as for the discussion of numbered angles and the European fighting arts, the British military numbering system for cavalry sabre had six angles (an * if you will).  There was a seventh, being a vertical downward strike, but it was withdrawn.  It seems that there was a number of incidents of a cavalryman managing to bury his sabre in his opponent's skull or breastbone, and not being able to free it before his opponent's horse ran off - dragging the victor off his own horse in the process. A copy of the 1797 sabre manual is at http://www.the-exiles.org/manual/Pepper1797/Pepper1797-portrait.pdf BadgerSiling Labuyo Arnis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:27:12 -0400 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Dim Mak in a domestic dispute.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bobbie Edmonds wrote: > This is an important area that is seldom addressed. The knife has its > own > unique theory of use, its own language. Wielding it competently isn't a > casual skill, it takes years to achieve anything resembling mastery. > There > are no hard & fast rules for knife play, you must take into > consideration so > many different variables that it would be impossible to categorize them > minimally. If you leave the concept of "Style" out for a moment, you > will > find a large portion of blade craft is ubiquitous. It has no real home > other > than itself, and therefore can lend itself to any style of technique. > Due to > the nebulous nature of knife fighting, there are also many abstract > theories > & motions that have no real category other than "dirty tricks & sneaky > moves". Many people get caught up in the aspects of style in the > martial > arts, what system has the best moves, the most complete repertoire, > hundreds > of forms, etc. This is a mistake when addressing the knife, you should > instead examine the weapon itself. What does it do? Unlike the stick, > the > blade is at once powerful without the use of muscles, and lethal > without the > backing of a martial art. It only has to touch you to do damage, A > child > could kill with it in seconds, by accident. You must approach this > area of > training with utter seriousness, and develop it to a high degree. You > don't > have to necessarily be strong to use a knife, the knife has all the > power. > It only has to touch you to do damage. All the knifer really provides > is a > weapon delivery system and it can come in at varied speeds, with > erratic > motions and awkward angles. Wow. I think that is the most succinct and accurate description of combat knifecraft I've ever encountered. Indeed, the whole post was amazing. Thank you, Mr. Edmonds, for your submission. Posts like it make the ED the valuable resource it is. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Michael J. Davis" To: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Schools or people in the Norcross, GA area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello! I just moved from TX to the Norcross, GA area. I was wondering if there are any schools that anyone can recommend or individuals or training groups? My experience level is low and primarily in Remy Presas' Modern Arnis, but I am open to learning from anyone of any effective system. Thanks for your consideration! Michael --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest