Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:01:49 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #314 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Bear attack (Nat Nickele) 2. RE: The Way of the Pig (Bobbe Edmonds) 3. Knife fighting/Reply to Bob Edmonds' post (fullofschist@juno.com) 4. Re: angles (bphillips211@sprintpcs.com) 5. I didn't know kali comes from Spain... (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 6. Re: KdM info (Reisya@aol.com) 7. re: kadena de mano (gints@att.net) 8. Re: Knife fighting/Reply to Bob Edmonds' post (Mike Casto) 9. Re: Re: KdM info (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Re: KdM info (Joaquin Torres) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:33:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bear attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I wonder how many environmentalists are after this guy now for cruelity toward animals. -Nat _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bobbe Edmonds" To: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:47:37 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: The Way of the Pig Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Clint, thanks for the reply. Well, Clint and Jared Ridgecrest, about my name, it's Bobbe Edmonds. "Baboy", as you know, means "Pig" in most Filipino dialects. My good friend Karol "Ungoy" Krauser Hasegawa started calling me this, and somehow got Grandmaster Cacoy Canete to do it as well. It went around to our teachers, and F!@^%$##!@!! terrific, I have the entire FMA culture calling me PIG!!! Well, I figured if I embraced it, nobody else would win any points for bringing it up. Since this has happened, I have just gotten used to being called "Baboy" by the Eskrima world. My friend Karol is also called "Ungoy" which means Monkey (Something else nobody likes to be called). In the Pacific Northwest, we have become known as simply "The Pig & the Ape" instead of Bobbe & Karol. It's kind of funny to us, in a world of people calling themselves "The Dragonmaster of Whoopass" "The Tiger of Canton" and "The Leopard of Cebu" we are simply the pig and ape of Kali. And to be honest, I would prefer to be known as the pig with skill, instead of an ass-kicking name that I could never hope to live up to. If you think that's bad, my literal name "Bobbe" means pig in Bahasa Indonesia. I can't tell you how many times I have introduced myself to someone in Indonesia, and they snotted pepsi out of their nose. They usually say "You should change your name while you are over here". It's like I'm cursed, or something. Now, for the rest of your email... >"I am now a firm believer that knife skills can not or shall I say is NOT easily taken lightly (forgive my ignorance)"< Nothing to forgive my friend, ALOT of people don't know this stuff. But please don't take my word as the-all, end-all of it. DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Research, research, research and then train your butt off. Don't accept any TEN teacher's opinions, you should constantly be on the lookout for other styles of technique & theory. I say this NOT to be disrespectful, but to let you know that knife fighting is far to vast a subject to think an inch deep on, then quit. >"Have you had any experience in your school fighting (not real knife) using you bare hands...? I mean no holds bared fight or demonstrations? Because I haven't heard this to schools I know."< Yes, and yes. I was raised in various children's homes, foster homes, orphanages and reform schools in my childhood & teenage years. I have seen & used almost every weapon out there, outside of automatic weapons. But in the hands of a skilled (not necessarily martial artist) user, you really never see it coming. Mike Casto made an earlier point about this, and he is entirely correct; You're usually cut before you know it. My arms, legs & face look like I went toe-to-toe with Edward Scissorhands. Or Wolverine. In my school, I train my students using the Cold Steel "Black Cat". It's a great, realistic trainer made of glass & ballistic nylon. It comes sharp, but I file down the edge a bit, so the blade doesn't actually "cut" my students, but they do feel it if they miss the pass or check. This is important, because it keeps people honest. In fact, you can easily become complacent doing knife drills, and not realize you are only looking at one very small piece of the really large pie. >"Most of them they are demonstrating their advantages rather than showing what would be the outcome if the opponent is an expert. I mean an instructor would say ..."strike" then he knows what would be the next move to disarm an opponent easily because it's been orchestrated?"< Yes, this is true, and it's good that you recognize it. This kind of thing is a direct result of not sparring. Sparring (knife, stick, empty hand) in my opinion, is the most important element in training, yet so few do it. Doing drills in the air doesn't come close. Flow drills commonly act as a bridge between static or "Dead" drills, & sparring. It's easy to get hypnotized into thinking you are a fighter simply because you work the punyo sumbrada really well. Pretty to look at & fun to do, many people STOP at flow drills & never progress to sparring. This is a mistake. Sparring is the only way to achieve real flow, because it's the only controlled training atmosphere that's TOTALLY spontaneous. You can go at different speeds, and different focus of intent, use different weapons or empty hands, mix and match how you want. Every session will build skill in a way that "Okay, attack me like THIS" never will. I hope this post helps you out, your off to a good start! Also, Buz Grover, thanks so much for your comments! Baboy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "fullofschist@juno.com" Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:55:06 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Knife fighting/Reply to Bob Edmonds' post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Withchdoctor-Witchdoctor, Bob Edmonds said: "..A knife will work EVERY TIME, on EVERY ONE, unless your opponent is fighting in chainmail.. " Except, as anyone in law enforcement knows, when the assailant is on drugs. Drugs such as ketamine and PCP are powerful veterinary tranquilizers(cat and horse, respectively). People high on them feel NO pain, so even if they notice they’re bleeding, they often will not stop attacking until they pass out from blood loss. The stimulants crack, cocaine and methamphetamine can cause severe psychosis, so while the bad guy may feel the pain, he doesnt care. I guess the point would be: If the person is wacked-out on drugs, go for the arteries. The femoral artery inside the thigh will bleed someone out almost as quickly as a neck wound. Also: "you can see the logic behind a Wing Chun fighter’s philosophy of "We fight close, because others are uncomfortable with that range" I would think this is due to the concept of personal space as much as lack of experience in close range fighting.. We all have an invisible bubble of personal space, the distance at which we are comfortable with people, which varies depending on if they are friends, aquaintences, or strangers. Violating a persons ‘personal space’ will make them uncomfortable, even if it’s as subtle as encroaching on their territory at the dinner table. This is why we will sit down next to our lover closest, our good buddy a little farther, and leave a cool distance from the IRS guy. This is why when people wish to escalate a confrontation, they will get "in your face". By violating their space during a fight, this uncomfortableness can distract them enough to make a mistake. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:53:32 +0000 (GMT) From: bphillips211@sprintpcs.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: angles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This question of "dirty" angles is one reason I'm convinced the oldsters in our system had some good insights. When your #1,#2,#3, and #4 are all *diagonal cuts* and your #5 is a thrust... everything is there. The logic is that how often (in a real stick/knife fight) will you have a perfect vertical or flat cut... there is almost always some sort of angling on or around the opponent. This is my view anyway.. I may be full of it LOL. A Cinco Teros system with only 4 cuts and a thrust is really all you need if you train it enough. It's the bare bones.. everything else is good to have (learn from the experience of others) but you can get where you need to on a few cuts and a thrust. Brian -------------------- This message was sent from a PCS Phone from Sprint. Get a free PCS Mail account! Sign up via the Web Browser on your Sprint Phone or at http://www.sprintpcs.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:26:02 +0300 From: To: Subject: [Eskrima] I didn't know kali comes from Spain... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/thechroniclesofriddick/vindiesel. asp >From a Vin Diesel interview: Q: What is your Riddick workout? VIN: The Riddick workout started before I went up there. I was training with a UFC guy, Ultimate Fighting Championship fighter. I got up there two months early and started training in a fighting style called Kali, which originated in Spain and was then brought to the Philippines by Spanish traders. It's a fighting style that's just now beginning to catch wind. It's a fighting style that calls for ambidextrous, two-handed fighting. And that's what we studied. I went up two months early to learn this fighting style. Apparently Vin Diesel studied Kali De Leon (see a clip at http://www.kalideleon.com/techniques.html, on the right side, labelled "Guro Jun in Kali demo for Vin Diesel", so he _should_ know better... - Marko --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Reisya@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:21:54 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: KdM info Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Where could I get some info on KDM? South Florida is a McMartial Arts for Kali. Peace Yvonne --__--__-- Message: 7 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:14:04 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] re: kadena de mano Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Ray Terry wrote: > You may be thinking of RKD (Reactive Knife Defense). That is a short pgm > for LEOs. KdM is very nice knife system, one of the better ones you'll > come across. imho I'll second that. After studying the systemized knife of KDM, it's really hard to attend other knife seminars. These become a personal collection of a few techniques, usually presented as "If you do this, I'll do this. BUT, if you do this, of course, I will do this." and a few specific partner drills, but more often, solo repetitions for 15 minutes. The KDM includes a library of techniques and a structured method to train them with a partner. By using various techniques against several angles of attack, the program highlights the strengths and weaknesses of particular techniques of attack. Very nice. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife fighting/Reply to Bob Edmonds' post Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net << Except, as anyone in law enforcement knows, when the assailant is on drugs. Drugs such as ketamine and PCP are powerful veterinary tranquilizers(cat and horse, respectively). People high on them feel NO pain, so even if they notice they're bleeding, they often will not stop attacking until they pass out from blood loss. The stimulants crack, cocaine and methamphetamine can cause severe psychosis, so while the bad guy may feel the pain, he doesnt care. I guess the point would be: If the person is wacked-out on drugs, go for the arteries. The femoral artery inside the thigh will bleed someone out almost as quickly as a neck wound. >> But Bobbe didn't say anything about the blade causing pain or bleeding - he said the blade "works." There are things that a blade can do which cause *immediate* results regardless of what the person is on. A severed tendon/muscle/nerve will decrease/stop the functioning of a limb. A severed/punctured trachea will make breathing difficult/impossible. A punctured kidney will cause the muscles of the lower back to lock up - which causes a serious decrease in mobility. None of these have anything to do with whether or not the person can feel anything. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Knife fighting/Reply to Bob Edmonds' post > From: Withchdoctor-Witchdoctor, > > Bob Edmonds said: > > "..A knife will work EVERY TIME, on EVERY ONE, unless your opponent is fighting in chainmail.. " > > Except, as anyone in law enforcement knows, when the assailant is on drugs. Drugs such as ketamine and PCP are powerful veterinary tranquilizers(cat and horse, respectively). People high on them feel NO pain, so even if they notice they're bleeding, they often will not stop attacking until they pass out from blood loss. The stimulants crack, cocaine and methamphetamine can cause severe psychosis, so while the bad guy may feel the pain, he doesnt care. > I guess the point would be: If the person is wacked-out on drugs, go for the arteries. The femoral artery inside the thigh will bleed someone out almost as quickly as a neck wound. > > Also: > "you can see the logic behind a Wing Chun fighter's philosophy of "We fight close, because others are uncomfortable with that range" > > I would think this is due to the concept of personal space as much as lack of experience in close range fighting.. We all have an invisible bubble of personal space, the distance at which we are comfortable with people, which varies depending on if they are friends, aquaintences, or strangers. Violating a persons 'personal space' will make them uncomfortable, even if it's as subtle as encroaching on their territory at the dinner table. This is why we will sit down next to our lover closest, our good buddy a little farther, and leave a cool distance from the IRS guy. This is why when people wish to escalate a confrontation, they will get "in your face". By violating their space during a fight, this uncomfortableness can distract them enough to make a mistake. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: KdM info To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hi Ray, > > Where could I get some info on KDM? South Florida is a McMartial Arts for > Kali. There are two videos/DVDs available on Inayan KdM. Don't know if there are any instructors residing in S.Fla. KdM isn't a McKali type of art... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:34:42 -0400 From: Joaquin Torres To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: KdM info Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Where in Florida are you? Our group is in Brevard County. Tuhon Dionaldo's group is in Tampa. Raffy Pambuan and Shishir Inocalla are in Orlando. Joaquin Torres Reisya@aol.com wrote: >Hi Ray, > >Where could I get some info on KDM? South Florida is a McMartial Arts for >Kali. > >Peace >Yvonne >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest