Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #350 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re Interesting comment... (Patrick Davies) 2. The Metaphysical elements in the FMA (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 3. Cold Steel Barongs (B Katz) 4. Re: Re: Serrada Eskrima in TX, Ill? (stickfighter@charter.net) 5. Steve Braun's Contact Info (EDGES2, INC.) 6. RE: The Metaphysical elements in the FMA (Jared Dame) 7. Seminar Announcement (Brett Salafia) 8. Yaw Yan? (H R) 9. Re: Interesting Comment / headbutts (abreton@juno.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:29:24 +0100 From: "Patrick Davies" To: "eskrima digest" Subject: [Eskrima] Re Interesting comment... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net < I agree that learning angles helps with defending against kicks(and everything else), but disagree about the quality of FMA kicks. Mui Thai fighters kick above the waist, below the waist, wherever we want to. We also prove that high kicks are combat effective, everytime we knock an opponent out by planting our shin right behind their ear. My feeling about FMA, and Mui Thai, and everything else, is that an art that focuses on a specific technique will become VERY good at that technique. Ditto the individual practicioner. For example, you can't beat Capoeira for headbuts. Or boxing for hand strikes(though modification for the street is a good idea, because boxing has the distinction of creating hand strikes so powerful that broken hands are a very real danger). On the individual level, we all have our favorite techniques, that we're really good at. But since FMA emphasizes weapons, not kicks, FMA practicioners should not boast about their kicking skills to practicioners who can do things with their legs that blow away all the myths about "kicks being inneffective." Which is not to diminish FMA. I'm a BIG believer in weapons training, and at least FMA doesn't let it's students get away with holding to the Hollywood myth that a single master with his barehands can defeat hordes of armed enemies...>> How can we measure and quantify arts? Thai is a sport based art nowadays and the high kicks are usually a result of pounding the opponent's legs and tiring the body to open the high line. This requires an element of time that sport gives to pursue its aims and objectives. Spinning kicks are thrown in nowadays to entertain the audience who will bet more on the fighter who will receive a better payment. The method of scoring in Thai fights also prejudices the way the fight is fought nowadays. Take it outside the ring into a street encounter and would you kick high against an opponent with a knife? Would you return the kick to the chamber as is trained for the ring fighter or would you step through with the kick to close the distance? I train the thai diligently, it's a major part of my make up. But I have learnt to distinguish between what is effective in the self defence and ring. Environment really. When you compare the kicks of south east asia there is a great similarity but they differ depending on the environment. Thai kickers train for the sport defined by the rules of engagement. Change the rules and the fighter has to adapt, in the same way that mma ring fighters have adapted. To further this I wonder how the krabbi krabong mixed with the dogbrothers (for the sake of an example) influences has been adapted? Is it pure KK or has it been adapted to fit into the equation? Patrick Davies www.amag.org.uk 01224 795314 07710 401111 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:48:09 +0300 From: To: Subject: [Eskrima] The Metaphysical elements in the FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Lately I've been curious about the existing metaphysical elements in the Filipino martial arts. Having a long history the Philippines naturally has a lot of traditional elements, lots of which are influence by different migrating and invading peoples and cultures. Lots of people have their anting-antings, many use oracions, but what other elements are there? Rituals, symbols, beliefs? Does anyone know a good reference to this side of the FMA (or actually, of the Filipino culture)? Also, which systems actively use these elements in training and/or ceremonies? I know that at least Pekiti Tirsia Kali has been actively using traditional and metaphysical elements. Also, what possible (if any) elements does Freemasonry have in the Filipino culture? Like of the US founding fathers, many of the members of Katipunan were Freemasons. Does this show in any way in the Filipino culture? Any ideas? - Marko --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: B Katz To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cold Steel Barongs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My impact-softened brain seems to recall someone had some good quality seconds of the Cold Steel Barongs. I'd like to own a couple of them and need some contact info. Just an aside... I have learned a tremendous amount just from reading the posts on this site. Thanks for helping to smooth out the bumps in my very steep learning curve! Brandon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Serrada Eskrima in TX, Ill? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:03:28 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Check out Nate Defenser he is very close to Rockford Ill. He teaches Serrada as part of the Defenser method. He is a great instructor. Mac > From: Kes41355@aol.com > Date: 2004/09/19 Sun PM 07:53:03 GMT > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Serrada Eskrima in TX, Ill? > > Hi all, > I've received a couple of E-mails recently from folks seeking out Serrada > Eskrima instruction in Texas, and in Rockford, Illinois. Does anyone here know > of any Serrada instructors in either place? Any help would be greatly > appreciated, as I've exhausted my sources. > > Thanks, > > Kim Satterfield > Midwest Eskrima Kapatiran > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "EDGES2, INC." To: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:28:03 -0400 Organization: EDGES2, INC. Subject: [Eskrima] Steve Braun's Contact Info Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Andy, Good to hear from you again. Steve's current email address is: steve@trainingblades.com He is teaching class on Tuesdays and Thursdays in Severn, MD. Stop by for a visit! Give me a call at 301-306-0194 if you would like his phone number. All the best. Bob Burgee. > From: Andrew Maddox > Date: 2004/09/21 Tue AM 11:30:58 CDT > To: Eskrima Digest > Subject: [Eskrima] OT: what ever happened to...? > Steve Braun --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] The Metaphysical elements in the FMA Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:36:08 -0400 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The best book I have read so far with that information and history was "The Filipino Martial Culture" by Mark Wiley. Its about 15$ on Amazon but an excellent read. ciao, Jared -----Original Message----- From: marko.ronkainen@nokia.com [mailto:marko.ronkainen@nokia.com] Sent: Thu 9/23/2004 6:48 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Metaphysical elements in the FMA Lately I've been curious about the existing metaphysical elements in the Filipino martial arts. Having a long history the Philippines naturally has a lot of traditional elements, lots of which are influence by different migrating and invading peoples and cultures. Lots of people have their anting-antings, many use oracions, but what other elements are there? Rituals, symbols, beliefs? Does anyone know a good reference to this side of the FMA (or actually, of the Filipino culture)? Also, which systems actively use these elements in training and/or ceremonies? I know that at least Pekiti Tirsia Kali has been actively using traditional and metaphysical elements. Also, what possible (if any) elements does Freemasonry have in the Filipino culture? Like of the US founding fathers, many of the members of Katipunan were Freemasons. Does this show in any way in the Filipino culture? Any ideas? - Marko _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:32:21 -0400 From: Brett Salafia To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Seminar Announcement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Double Impact Seminar RyuKyu Kempo and Modern Arnis George Dillman, 9th Degree Blackbelt Founder Dillman Karate International and Ken Smith, IMAF, Inc. Master of Tapi Tapi December 4, 2004 Noon-4:30 $70 Preregistered by 11/22/04 Radisson Inn 100 Berlin Rd Cromwell CT 06416 For Info email Modarnis@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: H R To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Yaw Yan? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I still haven't had any luck in finding any information on Yaw Yan schools, other than what's posted on the ED links page. Does anyone know of any schools in the US, specfically CA? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:13:17 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Interesting Comment / headbutts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Marc, Re: headbutts in capoeira" I was waiting for Jye or someone with more cap experience to write about it. I've seen capoeira headbutting with kind of an upper block, with either the body straight or turned to the side slightly. I've also seen it with kind of a lower block with arms crossed. I've always seen the target as the stomach, although I'm not claiming I've seen everything. I've also seen cap people headbutt the stomach as they do a sort of double-leg by grabbing the pants cuffs and pulling (boca de something or other, it's called). I do know it's a regular part of capoeira, and there are stories of famous capoeiristas in bygone days both giving and receiving vicious headbutts (again, to the stomach or not specified). There's a theory that capoeira comes form / is related to a martial art called "butting and tripping" which, if true, would seem to imply that in times past the art was more known for the headbutting and throws than the acrobatic kicks. In one of Mestre Bimba's sequences (if memory serves), you go from negativa to a headbutt, and your opponent responds with a joelhada (knee strike), at which time you either go back into negativa or another esquive/escape. That's why I've always viewed it as a low attack, which is not something I could pull off, but more power to those who can. Putting the Bimba sequences together, a headbutt that was evaded could easily turn into a Vengativa (like a kinjit position) or a Tesoura (leg scissors throw). It's been a while, so I may be getting my spelling of those throws wrong. One wonders if capoeira's emphasis on evading made these more high probablity responses. The headbutts I've seen in Chinese Muslim HsingI have impressed me. Through various ways, they sneak around and smother the arms. They headbutt higher than capoeira, and it's very targetted where you hit and with what. The headbutts are often combined with shoulder, elbow and knee hits. All that goes for headbutts from greater-than-clinching range. The comment started with Mui Thai, which I thought had headbutts from the clinch. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Marc Denny [mailto:craftydog@dogbrothers.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:46 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 2 I'm curious about the Capoeira headbutting comment. I've seen some Cap that impressed me greatly (Maestre Boneco used to teach at the Inosanto Academy) but was not aware of the headbutting side of the art. Would you share with us what impresses you about it? TIA Crafty Dog --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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