Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:21:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #360 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. NEF National Eskritedo Federation (Clint Cayson) 2. re: Chicken Steps (Bert Edens) 3. Re: re: Chicken Steps (Andrew Maddox) 4. Re: Is It Just ME!!? (Andrew Maddox) 5. Marc's hub (Kristine Strasburger) 6. Re: Cold Steel Challange (James Nordstrom) 7. Re: Jack Dempsey and Bruce Lee (Kes41355@aol.com) 8. Really?! (Sean Putt) 9. Re: Really?! (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Re: Jack Dempsey and Bruce Lee (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Bob Orlando (Apraiser3@aol.com) 12. Re: Cold Steel Challenge (BradJ.Ellis) 13. Bakbakan's 2004 Gathering of Warriors (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) 14. Re: Re: Bob Orlando (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:16:35 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] NEF National Eskritedo Federation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net James, Was he the same guy that who lived in Dumaguete City? If it's him, then Master Jabel was known to the city because of his caliber and his unorthodox Arnis style. I went to take up some summer credits in Silliman University during the 80's when I saw him practice in the plaza. I'm not really sure if he has a school that time because my classmates told me that he teaches and chooses students meticulously. Thought he was an Okinawan and I think if I'm not mistaken he is/was from Cebu province and I also think his style is somewhere between Pekiti-Tersia and Balintawak. Not really sure. Sincerely, Clint ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ thanks a lot for responding...originally I studied this art back since 1984 in the Philippines, in the Negros Oriental province and from my instructor's point of view its a combination of Japanese karate and FMA particularly the Arnis weapon. Founded by Alejandro Jabel - 5th degree Black Belt (GODAN) when he started the school...that's all I know about it, my own instructor passed away a couple of years ago and I have just started teaching my 8 year old son about the art of self defense which I am so grateful to be one of the Filipino Martial Artist to have studied and be able to understand and appreciate on what we've accomplish through all those years...viva pit senyor, viva!!! --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:44:01 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [Eskrima] re: Chicken Steps Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 05:01 10/1/04, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Bert Edens wrote: > >Greetings, sir... >Ouch! Stop that! LOL :) Sorry, 'bout that... Force of habit... I will probably always do it... Perhaps you can learn to ignore my quirks, much like my wife has had to :) > >Anyway, I have not heard of "chicken steps"... Could you enlighten > >a newbie? >Well, I'm no expert, but I'll try to explain what *I* mean by the term[0], >on one condition - stop calling me "sir"! ("Andy" is fine, really, and much >more appropriate). :-) >In my strange little world, "chicken stepping" is basically just a heavily >back-weighted footwork, with the front leg coming up kind of like, say, a >goju-ryu cat stance. It (chicken step) usually works best in either a >female triangle (bad ASCII art below) or a side-to-side motion, where >you're moving away from an attack. It's useful for getting quickly off the >centerline, and secondarily for setting that front leg up to snap in a >quick kick or leg-check. At least, that's what I mean by the phrase. > >Female triangle: \ / > \ / > \/ > base >Hmm. I guess it would also work for the "trapezoid" step, which I'll *try* >to draw here: > _______ > / \ > / \ > / \ > /________________\ > base 1 base 2 >This is where your base 1 is the right leg, and you step up and across to >make "base 2" your left leg, the other leg being up along the diagonal >there, facing an opponent who's up on that top straight line. Sorta. OK... Had to paste this into Notepad in a Fixed Font to look at it... :) So if I understand it correctly, it's basically just a stance where your weight remains primarily on your back foot, leaving your front foot more available for quick kicks, side sweeps, etc.? I'm familiar with a cat stance as we do it, so it makes pretty good sense... Transitioning in the female triangle also makes sense... But the trapezoid... How does the weight distribution change as you are shifting your feet to the side? Especially when moving the back foot, since more weight would need to be placed on your front foot, which is in the chicken/cat stance... It seems like it would alter the purpose of the stance for the duration of the slide/step... Am I reading that correctly? > ><> >And that, too. Knock it off. Please! :-) >Did this help? Or did I just confuse things more? >Cheers, >ND I think it helps... As with many, it probably would help to see it in action... If I'm not understanding it correctly, based on my reply, don't hesitate to follow-up and help clarify... Thanks again! <> - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:20:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: Chicken Steps Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Bert Edens wrote: >> __________ >> / \ >> / \ >> / \ >> /________________\ >> base 1 base 2 > >So if I understand it correctly, it's basically just a stance where your >weight remains primarily on your back foot, leaving your front foot more >available for quick kicks, side sweeps, etc.? Yeah, pretty much. In the female triangle, if you start with your left leg forward and out about 45 degrees, the switch is to bring that left foot back, and step out with the right as you turn to face off on the other 45-ish degree line. And you can just use a diamond pattern on the floor and step around it randomly, keeping that relatively high-stepping, "walk like a chicken" feel in mind. >But the trapezoid... How does the weight distribution change as you are Well, if you're on the left side there, right leg back, left leg leading, you step up with the right so you're roughly parallel with the baseline for just a sec, then bring your left leg back to the other side (point 2) of the base, and set your weight back as you do. You can also, of course, use the trapezoid pattern with front-weighting, almost sama-sama. >I think it helps... As with many, it probably would help to see it in Yep. Always does. ><> Boot to the head! ;-) -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net I will not carve gods --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:24:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Is It Just ME!!? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Sean Putt wrote: > I want to ask all of you if you too have experienced the notion from non >martial artists that martial arts are worthless? Sure. Heard that sometimes. Never has bothered me, you learn to ignore it pretty fast, unless it's said in some kind of challenging/threatening manner. Mostly, though, it don't mean nothin'. >do you believe that the rest of the world believes that martial arts are >worthless to them, if so why? Probably. If people didn't think MA were worthless for them, they'd all be studying something. Dunno why, don't care. They're not worthless for me, personally, so I keep practicing. No big. ND -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net I will not carve gods --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristine Strasburger To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Marc's hub Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc, In response to your request I took a fresh look at your website, and the specific hub mentioned. Without intending to "puff you up" in front of everyone here I have to say that your website is one of the most well designed and useful that I have seen. You have achieved this because of the way you have structured and broken down the various topics and issues into easy to find links. You are doing a service to all humanity by separating the two topics of MA training and MA culture. The way you have laid out the volumes of information you have compiled and thought through makes it easy enough for an interested person to navigate that it really doesn't seem like it is too much to read, even if it takes more than one sitting to read through it all (and to give the brain time to think through the issues you raise, it really does take more than one sitting.) I think one of the best things about your website is the way you have broken down the thoughts and topics so that they are easy to identify. A person doesn't have to spend ten minutes reading through a bunch of hooha trying to figure out what the hidden agenda of the writer might be. You are blunt and to the point, take it or leave it, thank you very much! So, my final answer is, "Leave it as two separate and distinct trails of thought." People, especially people new to the martial arts, need to be made aware of the existence of these two facets, and you have done an excellent job of laying them out. Best Regards to everyone on the list, Kristine (Kristi Alonzo - Hey, Kim!) Strasburger >>>>>>> Marc wrote: Hey folks, I'm trying to get my head around something here. I split the original "hub" at http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/martialarts.html into two separate smaller hubs, that of Martial Arts Training and Martial Arts Culture. It began to dawn on me that there are apparently a lot of people who don't realize that there is a difference in these two concepts. Let me know what you think Marc <<<<<< __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Nordstrom To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cold Steel Challange Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maestro Labonog and a group of Bahala Na students went down and particapated. Maestro said it was a lot of fun and very educational. Here is his write up of the event http://bahalana.com/cold%20steel%202004.htm . Cheers Jim Nordstrom Cheers Jim "Taking life on the chin is all fine and well, but when life throws you a pile of shit best learn to bob and weave." "If people would just be half as smart as they think they are, they would be twice as smart as they really are." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:12:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Jack Dempsey and Bruce Lee Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, >From what I understand, Bruce Lee researched Jack Dempsey's punching methods very thoroughly, and drew much of his power punch delivery from Dempsey's techniques. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 10/1/04 6:28:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Now for those of you who don't know Dempsey's fighting record of his 64 > bouts, 60 were by knock out. Not technical, but the guy on the mat. His > shortest bout was 14 seconds before his opponent was on the deck. Needless > to say, Dempsey knew a thing or two about punching with power. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Sean Putt" To: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:14:32 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Really?! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I appreciate you reading my email Ray. I guess you are very right about people not being informed. Hey I have the book by Bob Orlando, Indonesian Fighting Fundamentals: Brutal Arts of the Archipelago, Willem De Thouars is prominent throughout this book even with sections devoted to him. He does not claim Bob Orlando?, What do you mean? There are picture sequences of Willem showing techniques with Bob as the "opponent". Keep The Spirit Alive, Sean --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Really?! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hey I have the book by Bob Orlando, Indonesian Fighting Fundamentals: Brutal > Arts of the Archipelago, Willem De Thouars is prominent throughout this book > even with sections devoted to him. He does not claim Bob Orlando?, What do you > mean? There are picture sequences of Willem showing techniques with Bob as the > "opponent". Perhaps things have changed since those pics were taken. e.g. there are a ton of people out there that have pics taken with Angel or Mike or Cacoy or Danny, but how many of them were actually long time students of same? However, given politics and such, Bob's status in Uncle Bill's art could very well change down the road. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Jack Dempsey and Bruce Lee To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hi all, > From what I understand, Bruce Lee researched Jack Dempsey's punching methods > very thoroughly, and drew much of his power punch delivery from Dempsey's > techniques. > > Kim Satterfield Jack's book -is- rather good. I was happy to be given a copy a few years ago. Well worth the read, esp if you can borrow it or find one at a good price. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Apraiser3@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:07:16 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings Ray, I think you may have your facts mixed up regarding Uncle Bill not claiming Mr. Orlando...Bob Orlando is listed on Uncle Bills' web page as an authorized teacher & it also says: Bob Orlando has over thirty-five years experience in several martial arts including Chinese Kung-fu, Kenpo, and Filipino martial arts. The twelve years he spent with Mr. de Thouars has dramatically changed his art. He is the author of two books, one on Indonesian martial arts anyway, love getting my "daily eskrima mail" Rob Perkins --__--__-- Message: 12 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Brad J.Ellis Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1970 02:29:37 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cold Steel Challenge Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I attended, and fought in, the second day of the Challenge. Any weapons tournament is going to be problematic with scoring and judging and my hat is off to' the folks from Cold Steel for putting on a great event. I want to be clear that I'm pretty happy about the event in general, grateful that Cold Steel went to the trouble to organize and host it, and respectful of the difficulties involved in judging a simulated "sword fight". OK, that said.... It is just really difficult to see hand shots delivered with a padded weapon to a gloved hand and I thought I saw quite a few go unrecorded. I am also of the mind that if it is supposed to be an edged weapon the emphasis should be on finding your entry, making a clean cut, and getting back out without being touched. If fighter A goes lowline and scores a shot to fighter B's lead leg... but fighter B sticks it in A's ear on the way out then they both DIE. Fighter A should be awarded no points because he got there first, it isn't epee fencing. There is no 'wash', no 'clash'.... just two guys losing "simulated" blood. The format of the fight has a future but I believe it should be modified to penalize fighters willing to trade shots or conducting themselves as if they are stickfighting instead of swordfighting. I don't want to sound negative, I'm offering suggestions based on what I saw that I believe would make the event better in the future. I had fun, all the fighters I met were great and I plan on attending again if they hold it next year. Thank you Cold Steel, I'm glad I wasn't the one judging that day, great job fellas. Demonstrations included traditional sabre fencing, sword throwing, and Sikh swordfighting. Demo time to me is usually parking lot time... duck out to the cars with the rest of the fighters and let the pretty guys put on the show. The demos I saw that weekend were all informative and interesting and kept me right there in my seat despite the sandstorm that was going on at the time. When demos were over I wandered over to the throwing range and got a chance to throw knives, tomahawks and various other sharp implements with Bob Karp. I had never seen Mr. Karp before but let me say that his accuracy throwing is incredible.... at one point he pulled a small folder from his pocket, flicked it open and pinned it to the bullseye from a good distance away.... as he walked over to pry it from the wood every fighter there watching was looking at each other like, "Holy crap! Did you see that? Ohhh, I GOTTA learn how to do THAT!". My entry fee for the day would have been worth it just for the instruction I got from this man... just hanging out enjoying the day... thanks Bob. Organizers, judges, fighters, demo guys, spectators, and whoever was cooking those beautiful tri-tip sandwiches, thanks... I had a great day. -Brad --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:14:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Bakbakan's 2004 Gathering of Warriors Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net We attend this tournamewnt every time Master Ray hosts it. It's always well run and a great experience for our competitors. If your in the area you should definitely try it out. Another tournament that is highly regarded is Master "Dong" Cuesta's PIMA invitational. Many of the top fighters around attend that one and they have added kickboxing for children and juniors. This year they are adding grappling as well. Don Edwards Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness www.imafit.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I think you may have your facts mixed up regarding Uncle Bill not claiming > Mr. Orlando...Bob Orlando is listed on Uncle Bills' web page as an authorized > teacher & it also says: > > Bob Orlando has over thirty-five years experience in several martial arts > including Chinese Kung-fu, Kenpo, and Filipino martial arts. The twelve years he > spent with Mr. de Thouars has dramatically changed his art. He is the author > of two books, one on Indonesian martial arts > anyway, love getting my "daily eskrima mail" Uncle Bill's list is at: http://www.willemdethouars.com/teachers.html Unless I am skipping right over it, I don't see Bob's name listed there. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest