Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:46:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #365 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #364 headbuts (T2J2M2@cs.com) 2. Re: Bob Orlando (Todd Ellner) 3. Re: Head butts (Todd Ellner) 4. RE: Martial Arts being useless... (H R) 5. RE: Anyone attending the World FMA Expo in Vegas? (Ken Grubb) 6. 9 Headbutts (Marc Denny) 7. RE: Interesting Comment 2 (1@msfencing.org) 8. Foot-Trapping? (Alex 'Twist' Bohusch) 9. Re: Interesting Comment 3 (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Interesting Comment 3 (WoodyTX) 11. Re: The Metaphysical elements in the FMA (Beungood8@aol.com) 12. Re: Head Butts (Buz Grover) 13. Re: Interesting Comment 3 (Ray Terry) 14. Fwd: SWACOM launched & new DVD release! (Bakbakan@aol.com) 15. Re: Fwd: SWACOM launched & new DVD release! (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:05:44 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #364 headbuts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I guess that they would work for me, but I have a really hard head to begin with. Tim --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:16:27 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bob Orlando Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > On a related note, I had e-mailed Mr. Orlando regarding some Silat training >that is available in my area to get his input on it and he promptly wrote >back & also said that I could continue to contact him regarding my progress My >training ended up taking a different route, but that was still something that I >remember. Like I said, a real gentleman --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:30:13 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Head butts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rez writes: >I read somewhere that most self-defense experts these days recommend not >using head buts, because you might actually knock your own self out in the >process. Since I have never attempted one in practice or in a real situation >I have no clue to the truth of this. Have any of you successfully used head >buts in self defense situations? Ever knocked yourself out? Oddly enough, most of the good practical types I know speak very highly of the "Glasgow Kiss". I've used it once. It worked just fine, and I didn't knock myself out. Some of our students have reported back to us and say that the head butt has worked like a charm. One cut her scalp but didn't notice until later. One well known martial arts type said in a seminar that he knocked himself out and lost a bunch of teeth from doing a head butt. But he grabbed the other guy's head and slammed his own face down onto the top of it. Oops. The key, as several have said, is that you shouldn't be able to see what you're going to hit. The top of the head works. The frontal bone, just below the hair line (for those of you with regular heads of hair) - where you'd have antlers if you had antlers, is also excellent. The face below the eyebrows and the side of the head are the primary targets. Aaron writes: >As for the headbutt, it doesn't work well if you are taller than the person >you are trying to execute it on. Also, when you reach up to pull them into >the TOP of your head, don't grab them around the base of their neck and try >to pull them down -- it won't work unless you can just completely out-muscle >them. You can, however, pull them down fairly easy by placing your hands >around the top quarter of the back of their head and pulling down. If you're taller it's only going to work well if you bend your legs. Of course, then you'll have the force of your legs shooting your head up into his nose. The nose isn't going to enjoy that very much... I've also found that the Thai boxing plumb (plum?) is a good way to grab someone for this, especially if you are used to that hold from doing knees. It also means that we and our students don't have to learn another position/hold. That's a result of the rest of our curriculum, though. Your mileage may vary. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: H R To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Martial Arts being useless... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have to agree with you on that notion Bert- if you haven't done it, it's really hard to fathom an art's meaning to someone, let alone it's usefulness. I've even noticed (and have been on the receiving end) of notions and comments- made by other martial arts practitioners, nonetheless- about certain martial arts being useless. I'm guessing a lot of that sort of commentary stems from doubts whether certain techniques would be applicable in a real-life situation. In my own opinion, it's almost impossible to see what it means to an individual, unless you've walked in their proverbial shoes. On an ending note, I know it's best to just ignore those comments, but I don't think I'd be the first to say that they get really annoying after the 3rd or 4th time. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Ken Grubb" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Anyone attending the World FMA Expo in Vegas? Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:27:32 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry for the late reply. Yes. I was there. Chris Turla (sp ?) represented the system well. I believe Master Ibanez would have been very pleased. Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA One of PG Hufana's crew -----Original Message----- From: ryan@ghouseproductions.com [mailto:ryan@ghouseproductions.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 13:52 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Anyone attending the World FMA Expo in Vegas? Just curious to see if anyone is attending. http://www.arnisador.com/fma_expo_2004.asp We're sending a group down, and will be fighting in the Laban Laro, and will be doing some teaching at the seminar portion on Friday. If you see the LESKAS/Lightning Scientific team, be sure to say "Hi" to us. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:31:42 +0200 (GMT+02:00) From: Marc Denny To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 9 Headbutts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: IIRC there are 9 different headbutts in Bando. yip from Barcelona! Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 7 From: <1@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 2 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:29:25 -0500 Organization: 1@msfencing.org Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Also, when you reach up to pull them >>into the TOP of your head, TOP of the head? So it's not really the forehead (like they show in the movies) that you strike with. Rather it's the part of your head just above the forehead. Is that right? That makes better sense. Striking someone else's face with my forehead doesn't sound very pleasant. However, I wouldn't mind using the top of my head. Thanks. Blessings, Rez Johnson "Standing guard on old, forgotten roads, that no one travels anymore." THE FENCING MASTER by Arturo Perez Rez Johnson, M d'A Headmaster: Mississippi Academy of Arms (Mississippi Fencing Academy) President: United States Traditional Fencing Association Certified Fencing Instructor: (USTFA, TFI, AAI, USFCA) Certified Fencing Master Apprentice: (USTFA, USFCA) Teaching Classical Fencing and Historical Swordsmanship since 1980 Modern Sport Fencing Coach 1980 - 2002 Mississippi Academy of Arms P.O. Box 955 Pelahatchie, MS 39145-0955 E-Mail: 1@MSFencing.org Academy Website: http://MSFencing.org USTFA Website: http://traditionalfencing.org "Eala Earendel engla beorhtast ofer middangeard monnum sended." Crist of Cynewulf > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Alejandro [mailto:aaronffa@sw.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 4:43 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 2 > > Headbutts, Knees and Elbows. Yes they work, yes they are > efficient and yes they are most definitely effective. > > As for the headbutt, it doesn't work well if you are taller > than the person you are trying to execute it on. Also, when > you reach up to pull them into the TOP of your head, don't > grab them around the base of their neck and try to pull them > down -- it won't work unless you can just completely out-muscle > them. You can, however, pull them down fairly easy by > placing your hands > around the top quarter of the back of their head and pulling down. > > As Ray mentioned, just look down at their shoes. This keeps > you safe and puts them in the ideal position. In addition, > when you walk away, you'll be able to tell an officer or any > security personnel what kind of shoes the guy with the bloody > nose is wearing. > > A very simple and effective technique from the FMA. > > Aaron Alejandro > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:53:49 +0200 From: Alex 'Twist' Bohusch To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Foot-Trapping? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I was wondering if you knew any books or videos about foot-trapping ? - Since the Filipino and Indonesian martial arts are the only ones where I've seen foot-traps I thought you might be able to help me. Thanks, Alex --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >>Also, when you reach up to pull them into the TOP of your head, > > TOP of the head? > > So it's not really the forehead (like they show in the movies) that you > strike with. > Rather it's the part of your head just above the forehead. > Is that right? Where I have used it the most is hitting with the upper forehead, around the hairline. Everyone will have a different hairline, but on me that is about the location I prefer. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:15:23 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If I used my hairline as a gauge, I'd be hitting him with the back of my neck.... :-) DO NOT use your forehead. There's a bony structure on the inside of your skull that is not smooth, and you'll hit your forebrain against it. Using the top or side of your head is better. A great example: When someone gives you the two-handed "playground" shove, go with it, and grab his arms at the wrists, pulling him with you. Look down and to the side, like you're trying to look at your own armpit, and pull him with you. Instant nosebleed. WoodyTX On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:33:48 -0700 (PDT), Ray Terry wrote: > > >>Also, when you reach up to pull them into the TOP of your head, > > > > TOP of the head? > > > > So it's not really the forehead (like they show in the movies) that you > > strike with. > > Rather it's the part of your head just above the forehead. > > Is that right? > > Where I have used it the most is hitting with the upper forehead, around > the hairline. Everyone will have a different hairline, but on me that is > about the location I prefer. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:23:16 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: The Metaphysical elements in the FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<>> I too wear something. It is a coin with ST Michael;the patron sanit and protector of Police Officers. It was given to me by the freidns of someone I helped in a domestic situation. I had it blessed by our Police Chaplain who happened to have several generations(Father,Grandfather and brothers) of Policeman in his family. I wear it when I work and when i am off duty. I like to think it will help protect me ,although that responsibility is solely mine. Salamat, JAck --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:38:02 -0400 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Head Butts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rez sez: > I read somewhere that most self-defense experts these days recommend > not > using head buts, because you might actually knock your own self out in > the > process. Since I have never attempted one in practice or in a real > situation > I have no clue to the truth of this. Have any of you successfully used > head > buts in self defense situations? Ever knocked yourself out? The only head butt I've used with a modicum of intent worked pretty well. A fella grabbed me by the biceps, I did a wide circle outside his grab and snagged his shirt with both hands at the collarbone, kinda shrugged up bringing him to me while dropping my chin to my chest and bowing forward. Caught him with my forehead above the bridge of his nose. He crumpled while I don't recall any issues on my end. Indeed, I have a hard time picturing a properly executed head butt knocking out it's initiator. Once was playing a pick up game of football at a forest preserve (kids, don't try this at home), went out for a pass, turned to catch it, then swiveled forward and ran head first at close to full speed into an oak. Rattled my cage pretty good, and most the rest of the day is hazy, but I kept my feet. Doubtless I have a hard head and a thick skull, but if an oak didn't take me out I have a hard time imaging a head butt I initiated doing so, but I suppose there could be a scenario where both combatants initiate simultaneously and KO each other. I'd also like to take issue with the statement that tall folks have trouble butting shorter people. I'm 6'5" and some change, often times when I'm in plum with a shorter person he'll try to stay in close to me. If I get my hands around the top of his head I'll take a big step back with my rear foot, which gets him moving my way, drag then plant the lead foot while bending forward, then pull his face toward the top of my noggin while pushing forward off my now planted rear foot. Since we're training I stop short, or bring the meat at the base of my thumbs around in front of his face to catch the impact. Folks I've pulled this on seem pretty reluctant to get back into plum with me. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Interesting Comment 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If I used my hairline as a gauge, I'd be hitting him with the back of > my neck.... :-) > > DO NOT use your forehead. There's a bony structure on the inside of > your skull that is not smooth, and you'll hit your forebrain against > it. Using the top or side of your head is better. I do not recommend using the very top of the skull. The upper portion of the forehead works the best, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Bakbakan@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:17:57 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Fwd: SWACOM launched & new DVD release! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, I don't know if you received this post or if you do not allow personal plugs. Regards, John G. Jacobo Return-path: From: Bakbakan@aol.com Full-name: Bakbakan Message-ID: <14.34cc0346.2e8d4116@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:59:34 EDT Subject: SWACOM launched & new DVD release! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.98e X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Hello Fellow Eskrimadors! Just a shameless plug to let you know that I have launched my official website which streams a clip off "The Combat Principles of DeCuerdas" which is Vol.I of my newly released instructional series. The Combat Principles of DeCuerdas covers "rebounding" as it applies to offense & defense. In offense, it is used as enganyos or feints while in defense, you will rebound in a counter or recounter. The purpose of this tape is to understand the principle. It is not technique driven. Volume II covers the Dos Manos Methods. It includes footwork, basic strikes, flowing attacks, short skirmish exercise and reverts to "Escalera DeCuerdas", a drill covered in Vol. I Please visit www.swacom.com for my story and more! Hope to meet some of you at the FMA Expo in Vegas this weekend. Yours in the Arts, Guro John G. Jacobo School for the Warrior Arts & Combatives (SWACOM) BAKBAKAN International --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Fwd: SWACOM launched & new DVD release! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I don't know if you received this post or if you do not allow personal plugs. No problem. This is the first time I saw the email come in. ... > Just a shameless plug to let you know that I have launched my official > website which streams a clip off "The Combat Principles of DeCuerdas" ... ... John, Is this art any relation to GM Gilbert Tenio's (RIP) DeCuerdas or Suro Mike Inay's (RIP) Dequerdas? Just curious. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest