Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #390 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1900 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. re: Jimmy Tacosa (Greg Hansen) 2. Khalid Khan's Article (Danford, Lance) 3. Re: Re: Combat smell test (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Re: Combat smell test (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Combat smell test (Steve Kohn) 6. Re: Re: Combat smell test (WoodyTX) 7. Escrimadors/classes in Boston/Boxborough area? (Jonathan Kessler) 8. Definition of 'combat' (Victor) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:24:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Hansen To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: Jimmy Tacosa Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jimmy is in Chicago right now, he should be returning to California soon. I know he will be returning to Hawaii briefly then back here to the Bay Area. I will ask him how he would like people to contact him and post it. Good luck in Iraq. greg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Danford, Lance" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:02:02 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Khalid Khan's Article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just saw Master Khalid Khan's article in the Filipino section of the new Inside Kung Fu. Congratulations Khalid! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat smell test To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Now with this in mind kiddies, I want you to seriously stop and think about > any training that you are receiving that involves you disarming and then > stabbing an attacker with his own (now your) knife. You call it > self-defense, the courts call it something else. Well now, not so fast. The letter of the law may not call it self-defense, but what the court/jury calls it may very well be different. An important difference. But still something most should be, and probably are, aware of. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat smell test To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Ummmm I know a number of current and former special ops guys. And while > knife work was indeed a part of the equation in certain cases, last time I > check things that went "boom" were preferred for combat. Typically yes. As I said, if you didn't shoot'em or blow them up you had (typically) screwed up badly. >... > > As such I would love to hear some of your research that supports your > contention. Sure, check the ops of the ROKs, and the Americans assigned w/them, in the area of the central highlands, around Qui Nhon. As one report states: "Koreans also had better field intelligence than their American counterparts. Koreans did counterinsurgency operations so well that American commanders felt Korean AOR is the safest. This is further supported when Vietcong documents captured after Tet Offensive warns their compatriots to never engage Koreans until full victory is certain. In fact, it is often the NVA and Vietcong who were ambushed by Koreans and not vice versa. Koreans used deadly hand-to-hand combat equally as destructive fire control." Of course their hand-to-hand wasn't empty hand-to-hand. And all while achieving a kill ration of ~ 1:25, reportedly the best of the war. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Combat smell test To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree with you Ray. I live in L.A. and while some areas are certainly rough, I would not insult our soldiers by comparing L.A. to Iraq. Best, Steve Kohn Ray Terry wrote: > Even here in L.A. there are areas that could be considered war zones... Sorry. Not even close. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:36:51 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat smell test Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm no lawyer, but I doubt that a jury would convict you if you took your assailant's knife and killed him with it. Just because you disarmed him AS HE TRIED TO KILL YOU does not mean that you are now murdering a man in cold blood. By the same token, if Mr. Sucking Chest Wound redecorating your carpet says, "I'll kill you" and so much as reaches for his weapon, you are in full rights to double-tap his cranium. That's a verbal threat, followed by action to make it a reality. Caveat: I'm a Texan, a long-time gun owner, and a former grunt. My opinions may differ from yours, the investigating officer, the DA's office, the judge, and the jury. That said, I don't believe the cheesy Hollywood assumption that if you disarm an assailant, that he immediately becomes an innocent bystander. IMHO, you have the right to attack until you have determined that the threat ceases. WoodyTX On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT), Ray Terry wrote: > > Now with this in mind kiddies, I want you to seriously stop and think about > > any training that you are receiving that involves you disarming and then > > stabbing an attacker with his own (now your) knife. You call it > > self-defense, the courts call it something else. > > Well now, not so fast. The letter of the law may not call it self-defense, > but what the court/jury calls it may very well be different. An important > difference. > > But still something most should be, and probably are, aware of. > > > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 1900 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:42:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Kessler To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Escrimadors/classes in Boston/Boxborough area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'll be going to Boxborough, MA, on a quick business trip in early November. Anyone know any escrimadors or classes I could sit in on, say on a Monday evening? Thanks for any info you can provide. JK __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Victor" To: Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:44:51 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Definition of 'combat' Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hmmmm.....First of all, the guy who dropped the shotgun is still just as dead...today, tomorrow, and next week. This was learned in "classical kung fu." In the state of Texas, the homeowner committed no crime as the scene is described in the post. Second, we just had a cop shot to death here answering a "domestic disturbance" call, which, as I understand it, is the most dangerous situation cops face in general. Falls under my definition of "combat". Thirdly, I used to be involved in a certain sport involving dogs (real dogs) wherein gameness and skill was judged in a pit with rules concerning a scratch line which required that the dogs, if there was any question, periodically show a willingness to continue to fight (or be counted out). It is combat in the purest sense of the word and has nothing to do with a "war between cultures" and everything to do with the individual's will to dominate the opponent exceeding the will to survive, a quality as rare as 'hen's teeth" in people. I've never thought too highly of war for the reason that the greatest warrior in the world could get blown up or killed by a 12-year-old girl with a grenade or gun. How game is that? Doesn't prove a thing. We've lost most of our wars lately because our "opponents" are fighting for their lives, whereas we are fighting for loosely-defined abstract concepts, like "freedom" and "liberty", a policy purveyed by a "leadership" safely esconced back here in the States. And I have to wonder, reading all the martial arts boards, how many of these guros have ever fought a 'death match' with an equally-skilled, equally-armed opponent, as my "dog friends" willingly did with their tails wagging. Very few, I would guess. Maybe none. "Combat" has many definitions according to the time and place. I one time disarmed a guy who tried to shoot me. Was this a great accomplishment? Not really. The guy wasn't very skilled. Was this combat? Perhaps, but not on a very high order, and I wouldn't say I could be classified as a "guro" or "warrior" based on this type of incident. In fact, I was lucky to escape with my skin intact. Well, my advice for everyone is to train with blades like their are no laws or rules, and dummy it down from there. Unless you are "playing" to take the other guy's life, you are only playing. And all the "dead game fighters" are all dead, which just leaves me and everyone who is reading this. I don't have a big title or anything (although I have over 30 years in martial arts), but that's the way I see it. Martial arts (or 'combat' or whatever semantics you like) is mostly "common sense" after everything is said and done. You know when you're in it. It isn't a "time" or "place", like Iraq or Vietnam, and it isn't a "written definition", regardless of the experience of the writer. It is a very individual assessment based on a specific set of circumstances.. In closing, I've been told that South Africa has the highest violent crime rate in the world and makes Juarez, across the border here, look like a Girl Scout picnic. It's been nice to read this board a bit, but I think it's time to move on. Later, Jerry Davis --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest