Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:12:07 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #416 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Parang (WEE, Shin Hoe) 2. Gun rights (Julian Gilmour) 3. PIMA tournament (Sean Brandt) 4. bouncer murder (rob mulligan) 5. Re: RE: Parang (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Gun rights (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense (Aaron Alejandro) 8. Re: Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense (John Johnson) 9. Re: Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense (Steve Ames) 10. Re: Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense (Steve Kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:12:51 +0800 From: "WEE, Shin Hoe" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Parang Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, One of the paper weights I've sent you is a parang. It looked like the lowest weapon in picture 2 but shorter (12 to 14 inches) and without guard. (http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm). Apart from the two in one spear/blow pipe combo, this is the standard utility carried by the natives in Borneo. S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Julian Gilmour" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:40:19 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Gun rights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Crafty Dog wrote: “From time to time we have had here some passionate cross-Atlantic exchanges on gun rights, comparisons of approaches and similar matters. One of the points raised by us gun nuts was that if guns were outlawed, then violent criminals would go to knives and other weapons. One of the concerns raised by us gun nuts was that of the slippery slope.” I’m English and living in England, and while I am not narrow-minded enough to be completely anti-gun, in all situations, I do have great reservations on the subject. Firstly, and I may well have misunderstood this point, why is a move from guns to knives considered a slippery slope? Surely, (if I can call you that) violent criminals with guns moving to bigger guns, grenades, bazookas, rocket launchers, tanks, helicopter gunships, fighter jets and thermonuclear devices would be a slippery slope. i.e that would mean a step in the wrong direction. If I think about my own perspective on my own personal safety, an unarmed criminal would be my choice if I had to meet one in a violent situation. Next up the scale would be a knife wielder. Just when my self defence skills are getting to a point where I may not be in too much of a massive amount of danger from knife wielders (and by that I mean mainly awareness, NOT unassailable knife defence skills), then the escalating gun situation over here puts me in a more dangerous situation again. It may be simplistic to you out there but, to me, the more guns on the streets, the more dangerous my walk home at night. A HUGE amount of Brits think it is that simple. And that’s why I have huge reservations about guns. A little of the same logic goes towards my view on knives. A violent criminal without a knife would be MUCH easier to deal with. Therefore taking their knives would minimise their danger to me. Obviously it would be impossible to stop people from obtaining kitchen knives, but I must say I’m glad that any sort of knife is likely to get you arrested in the UK. This may amaze some of you but despite being a Kali practitioner, I am all for this. Again, it may be a potentially simplistic view but to me, anyone with a knife is considering the possibility of stabbing someone. Potentially fatally. I am not completely anti- weapons practice if controlled; I have shot a gun and love playing with ‘non-kitchen’ knives at the gym, I just think it should all be very heavily controlled. I also do not feel that this constitutes what we call the ‘nanny state’ over here. I don’t think that Macdonalds should have a legal obligation not to advertise junk food until after 9 at night as has been suggested over here. I think people should learn to control what they put in their mouths themselves. The difference here is that if you are endangering OTHER people with your arms, you may need to be – dare I say it – controlled? The most ridiculous-sounding pro gun argument I’ve heard was a few years ago on an American daytime talk show about gun law. A woman said “do you all remember a few months back in (maybe) Texas when that psychologically disturbed man with a gun started shooting in the mall, killing several and maiming dozens? Well I had a gun in my bag and shot him dead on the spot saving any more casualties.” And this is a pro-gun argument? As you Americans say: “Hellooooo!”. As an aside: Very few people get beaten or stabbed to death by mistake, as can happen with firearms. Hence fewer innocent victims. Another aside: I definitely believe in arming the police. Yet another: somebody somewhere is making a **** of a lot of money by building bigger guns, grenades, bazookas, rocket launchers, tanks, helicopter gunships, fighter jets and thermonuclear missiles. And it's not very nice. I’m sure a lot of you have very well-researched and knowledgeable answers to all of the above. I don’t in fact expect that this post will change anyone’s mind at all. I’m just trying to give you an insight on what is (I believe) quite a common view in the UK. I definitely wouldn’t feel better/safer about myself and my country if the population DEMANDED the right to bear arms. It’s only slightly less ridiculous than the right to arm bears ;) Peace and respect to all on the list Julian --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:24:33 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Brandt To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] PIMA tournament Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I have a few questions about the PIMA tourament: What are the rules? What armor is required? Do you have armor that participants can borrow? What is the Eskrima division? Thank you. Gumagalang, -Sean Brandt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:29:14 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] bouncer murder Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com He's guilty in slay of bouncer BY BARBARA ROSS DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, November 17th, 2004 A Queens man was convicted last night of fatally stabbing a hulking nightclub bouncer who tried to toss his friend out of a lower East Side bar for violating the city's smoking ban. Isaias Umali, 32, faces 25 years to life when he is sentenced in Manhattan Supreme Court next month for slaying Dana Blake, 32, who bled to death from the single thrust of Umali's knife to his groin. "My soul is elated with what happened," the Rev. Tony Blake, the victim's brother, said after the verdict, which came after just four hours of deliberations. "I feel my brother's soul can rest in peace now." Umali's father, also named Isaias Umali, said the verdict - which acquitted his son of murder but convicted him of first-degree manslaughter - was "so unjust and unfair." Defense lawyer Michael Shapiro indicated he will appeal. The April 13, 2003, stabbing occurred in the basement of Guernica after Blake got into an argument with Jonathan Chan, 29. Chan and Umali were attending a friend's birthday party, and Blake saw Chan and others smoking. Mayor Bloomberg's smoking ban had recently gone into effect, and Blake ordered them to stop. Witnesses said Chan argued with Blake, and the bouncer put his huge hands around Chan's throat and moved him toward the exit. "He was choking to death so I ended up ... taking out my knife. I flicked it open and I stabbed him in the leg. ... I just wanted him to get off Johnny, just let him go," Umali testified during the trial. "I was aiming for his leg." Shapiro said his 5-foot-7, 140-pound client was "noble" for trying to save the equally diminutive Chan from Blake, who was 6-feet-6 and more than 350 pounds. Umali later tried to commit suicide, leaving a note that exonerated Chan, who was originally charged with the stabbing. "He's far from noble. He's a coward," Assistant District Attorney Christina Chuliver told jurors. She said defense witnesses exaggerated Blake's hold on Chan's throat and she noted that Blake's wound was 6 to 10 inches deep - not the little "jab" portrayed by defense lawyers. One juror said the panel could not decide if Umali actually intended to kill Blake and settled on the manslaughter charge. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Parang To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:31:43 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > One of the paper weights I've sent you is a parang. Ahh... There it is. Thanks! > Apart from the two in one spear/blow pipe combo, this is the standard utility > carried by the natives in Borneo. That two in one combo has always been one of my favorites, too. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gun rights To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:23:30 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Firstly, and I may well have misunderstood this point, why is a move from > guns to knives considered a slippery slope? The move to gun control is the slippery slope. As next down the slope is knife control. Then ballbat control. Then.?.?. > It may be simplistic to you out there but, to me, the more guns on the > streets, the more dangerous my walk home at night. You are assuming that all or most of these guns would be in the hands of criminals. Why would that be the case? In a free state realize that more guns on the street means more in the hands of law abiding citizens like you and me, thus a far safer society. Check your history. Why did your government pass strict gun control laws in the first place? Do deter crime? No, that was not the reason. Follow the bouncing ball, you may be surprised. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Aaron Alejandro" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:56:43 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In response to Julian's post regarding Crafty Dog's point on tactical knives and the issue as it parrallels gun control, here's my two cents. I agree that we need to have a common sense approach. Julian speaks of traveling home at night and the fear that arises from the thought of those with ill intent (criminals) having guns and knives (any weapon including empty hand)? I wonder if Julian, other Brits or Americans lock their doors at night? Why do they lock their doors? Simply to keep people like you and I out -- people who own guns, knives, and more importantly, abide by the laws of the land. We are not the threat -- Criminals are the threat. Criminals do not respect the fact that the door is locked. They break in, take things, hurt people and plunder -- that is why they are called criminals! More control of guns, knives, etc. is not changing the criminal intent but only a means by which they intend to harm. Since it is really not the firearm or edged weapon, maybe we should look at tougher punishment for criminals. I once took a class on training horses and I will never forget the definition of punishment. Punishment is something adverse to nature and if given opportunity one will avoid it. Growing up at a home for kids in trouble, I learned fast that when I broke a rule ... I got a whooping. Being adverse to my nature, I would strive to not break that rule again. My dorm parent refered to the act as "physical therapy" -- it worked. I got my life straight and went on to become the first person in my family to achive a college degree - with scholarships to boot. Maybe we need more effective punishment for criminals? For some, incarciration is adverse to nature. However, statistics here in the states reflect a "revolving door" of criminals in and out of prison. Obviously, something in prison was not adverse to nature so given opportunity they did not avoid it. I can respect another person's view of an issue, however, I seem to have much less tolerance for those who commit crimes against others. Punishing those who abide by the law (adverse to nature because of taking away their rights to own firearms or edged weapons) is the wrong target. Criminals should be our target. Just my thoughts. Aaron Alejandro --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Amen to that. Peace Out John >I can respect another person's view of an issue, however, I seem to have >much less tolerance for those who commit crimes against others. Punishing >those who abide by the law (adverse to nature because of taking away their >rights to own firearms or edged weapons) is the wrong target. Criminals >should be our target. > >Just my thoughts. > >Aaron Alejandro _______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:23:54 -0500 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 09:56:43AM -0600, Aaron Alejandro wrote: > I wonder if Julian, other Brits or Americans lock their doors at night? > Why do they lock their doors? Simply to keep people like you and I out -- > people who own guns, knives, and more importantly, abide by the laws of the > land. We are not the threat -- Criminals are the threat. > > Criminals do not respect the fact that the door is locked. They break in, > take things, hurt people and plunder -- that is why they are called > criminals! More control of guns, knives, etc. is not changing the criminal > intent but only a means by which they intend to harm. Criminals may not respect the locked door but they do know that if they just go to the next door it may be unlocked. No reason to expend any more energy than needed. Breaking in also makes noise and could alert someone. Opening a door that was left unlocked doesn't have that problem. Lock your doors. Self defense isn't about carrying guns or knives, its about taking personal responsibility for your safety. Its a way of life. -Steve --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:45:19 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Gun rights...Let's Use Some Common Sense To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks, Perhaps we can discuss abortion, religion or some other easlily resolved arguments? I understand that guns can fit into the projectile weapons area of some forms of FMA, but these discussions are becoming annoyingly political. I'll use another quote from someone whose name I can't recall... "The radicals on either side of any political debate are always wrong." Regards to all, Steve Kohn Aaron Alejandro wrote: In response to Julian's post regarding Crafty Dog's point on tactical knives and the issue as it parrallels gun control, here's my two cents. I agree that we need to have a common sense approach. Julian speaks of traveling home at night and the fear that arises from the thought of those with ill intent (criminals) having guns and knives (any weapon including empty hand)? I wonder if Julian, other Brits or Americans lock their doors at night? Why do they lock their doors? Simply to keep people like you and I out -- people who own guns, knives, and more importantly, abide by the laws of the land. We are not the threat -- Criminals are the threat. Criminals do not respect the fact that the door is locked. They break in, take things, hurt people and plunder -- that is why they are called criminals! More control of guns, knives, etc. is not changing the criminal intent but only a means by which they intend to harm. Since it is really not the firearm or edged weapon, maybe we should look at tougher punishment for criminals. I once took a class on training horses and I will never forget the definition of punishment. Punishment is something adverse to nature and if given opportunity one will avoid it. Growing up at a home for kids in trouble, I learned fast that when I broke a rule ... I got a whooping. Being adverse to my nature, I would strive to not break that rule again. My dorm parent refered to the act as "physical therapy" -- it worked. I got my life straight and went on to become the first person in my family to achive a college degree - with scholarships to boot. Maybe we need more effective punishment for criminals? For some, incarciration is adverse to nature. However, statistics here in the states reflect a "revolving door" of criminals in and out of prison. Obviously, something in prison was not adverse to nature so given opportunity they did not avoid it. I can respect another person's view of an issue, however, I seem to have much less tolerance for those who commit crimes against others. Punishing those who abide by the law (adverse to nature because of taking away their rights to own firearms or edged weapons) is the wrong target. Criminals should be our target. Just my thoughts. Aaron Alejandro _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest