Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:03:43 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #419 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. wounds (blast from the past) (Ray Terry) 2. A yip after the bell (Marc Denny) 3. RE: Heartfelt Condolence !!! (Ron Balicki) 4. Re: crime across the pond (Travis Frink) 5. Ron Balicki Seminar in NJ (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:05:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] wounds (blast from the past) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just another blast from the past... Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 Subject: eskrima: Wounds I have been kind of sitting back and lurking a bit as some of the higher educated members (i.e. the Docs RNs POs etc.) gave their valuable insights. I feel that I might be able to add a bit with regard to the Thrust vs Slash discussion. I have been up close and personal with the aftermath as a paramedic (with an FMA background) in some of the garden areas of Los Angeles County over the past several years. Here is what I have found, in no particular order: 1. As in shooting the key points are placement, placement,placement. I have been witness to the fact that people usually misjudge the quantity of blood lost due to a wound (externally) and tend to overestimate the quantity by a large degree. A half cup of blood on a white t-shirt or a linoleum floor for example can look like a gallon. Do not trust the appearance of what seems to be a large quantity of blood to determine if that person is incapacitated, or that you are "done in" in a fight. Much of the value of bleeding is psychological. This is not to say that it should be discounted as an overall factor or that a person can not bleed out from an external wound from a knife but that it does not usually occur as rapidly as most believe. 2. There are some organs that are effected much more by a knife, bullet or blunt trauma than others. These would be the "solid organs" i.e. the liver, kidneys, heart, spleen and of course the brain. The intestines, bladders, etc. tend to have their own problems associated with them but this tends to be in the long run not necessarily in the heat of battle as they do not as profoundly comprimise the circulatory system. The solid organs are extremely vascular and bleed profusely, albeit internally and may not look bad from the outside although shock is sure to follow...and quickly. This is also very true of the major vessels such as the carotids, sub-clavians, aorta, femorals and the brachials. A term for this internal bleeding is "third spacing". This term refers to the blood taking up (potential)space outside of the vessels and tissues themselves. Space is created in the internal environment and can result in a great deal of blood loss. This filling up in the region can result in not only grave wounds that do not appear to bleed but also in hydraulic pressure in the region that can impede the operation of other possibly otherwise uninvolved organs, most notably the heart and lungs. (pericardial tamponade and hemothorax for examples) 3. The compensatory mechanisms of the body (fight or flight etc.) can do a great deal to overcome the loss of blood volume to a point but in fact those same mechanisms over time can cause a rapid downward spiral if rapid treatment (field intervention) and definitive care(surgery) is not available to stop and/or reverse the process in a short time. 4. In many cases I have been involved in the stab victim (or shooting victim) did not even know that he/she was stabbed (or hit). Quite often they report that they were fighting and felt the other person "hit" them and was not aware of any stab wound(s) even when the weapon was still impaled in their body but out of the line of sight. In one example I went on a prisoner on his way to court that had been stabbed in the neck and still had the weapon impaled 2-3" in his neck as he beat the other man unconscious. He said he thought the man hit him. On a driveby or other potentially mass shooting scene we have to be sure to look at all of the people in the area to assure that we do not focus only on the obvious victim(s) but others who may have been hit and who did not know it. It is considered bad form to have to go back to the scene for someone who "falls out" after we leave only to find another victim of the same event....believe me it has happened to some in the past. 5. People vary greatly in what they can tolerate as far as traumatic injury is concerned. Some faint or whine at the slightest sign of blood or deformity out of proportion with the amount of pain associated with the injury. Others can endure tremendous injury and continue to fight. Look at the FBI shootout in Florida a few years ago with the former Rangers turned bankrobbers. 6. Drugs can be a definite factor in both directions. It may help the person to continue to fight or it may prove a detriment since the body may already be pushing its limits. 7.While it is true that a person may be able to function with only one lung, if the air is escaping into the chest and can not escape the building of pressure can and will effect the function of the other lung, as well as compressing the great vessels and heart and shifting the trachea(windpipe) so that it impedes the flow of air(pneumothorax) unless it is relieved. 8. The immobilization of a limb through defanging or a lethal wound to the core of the body does not necessarily mean that a determined attack will stop. As our friend Animal pointed out in many cases both combatants end up dead. Get away from the person as soon as you can to avoid getting taken out by a dead man. 9. The overall answer is that there is no one right answer to all situations. The best policy is if you are in it get away while covering your retreat. If you cant get away I feel that a defang maneuver is nice but you will be safer if you follow immediately with a deep thrust (or two) to the core of the body. As I was taught by Master Tony Diego of Kali Ilustrisimo __ all of your thrusts should become slashes.__ Open a large internal wound with one movement, then get away. I hope that I did not ramble too much or present this in too graphic a manner for the list. In my job good taste is something that can suffer. This was just a few random thoughts I felt I should pass on to the list given the topic, (and not a definitive discussion of trauma) and Doc Lindquist's challenge for input. Please do not take everything I said here at face value...do your own research if it interests you. Thanks for your time...sorry for the long post, Brad Hodges --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:31:29 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] A yip after the bell Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: In that I was the provocateur who started the gun/knife banning thread, may I be indulged in a brief parting comment? Buz's fine post leaves me with nothing to add on the merits, but I do want to address the possibility that some fur has been rubbed the wrong way. I appreciate the perspective of those who prefer that guns not enter into discussion here, but I thought the article I posted raised an uncomfortable question of unavoidable applicability for us in the FMA-- the disarmers logic, having failed with disarming guns, now seeks to do it against knives. This point of view can be found in many countries around the world. It is not a new things that governments seek unarmed populations. OF COURSE, the UK and its various constituent elements are free to do as they please and OF COURSE the UK and its various constituent elements (by this I'm trying to refer to Scotland, Wales, England etc) are different cultures from the US. That said, we all share quite a bit of history, culture and language too, which makes the UK experience of particular interest and relevance to the more curious amongst us here as to what to do here in the US. Many here in the US advocate a course of action similar to that of the UK and many here make predictions as to what the results of that course of action are and will be. Thus my thanks to our UK posters for sharing their perspective. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Ron Balicki" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Heartfelt Condolence !!! Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:23:30 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you so much Master Jorge.  I am going to see the Balani family tonight at Cindy's wake.  I will make a copy of this post for them. Thank you again Ron Balicki Message: 2 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:16:25 -0500 Subject: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: Guro Bud Balani & Family !! Cincinnati Balintawak Club expressed our Heartfelt Condolence To Guro Bud, my dear FMA friend and Kapisanan ng Mandirigma brother!! My thanks to Diana Lee and Ron Balicki for posting the note about the passing of "Cindy" Guro's Bud's loving wife and friend to Eskrima Digest community. Also, for their most humbling appeal for request for financial assistance to the Balani Family in their time of need.  A noble gesture to me !!! Our Club's donation has been send to the Balani residence in Glendale as of this post. Ray,, my thanks to you too and you all filipino warriors out there... Respectfully/Gumagalang, Master Jorge V. Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Travis Frink" To: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:32:00 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: crime across the pond Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Really? I frequenly hear people assert that efforts >>to ban firearms in the UK and Australia led to >>dramatic crime-rate increases in those countries, yet >>they can never produce any quantitative data to >>support the claim. Do you have any such data you >>could point us towards? Sure from the UK gov't... British Violent Crime Figures Spike Despite onerous gun regulations, levels of violent crime in the U.K. soared by 11 percent in the second quarter of this year. Add this to the "we hate to say we told you so" file, but government figures show recorded gun crime rose by three percent to 10,590 incidents in the year to June, an average of 29 a day and more than double the rate when Labour took power and instituted draconian new gun laws. There was a 14 percent rise in offences of violence against the person: 265,800 incidents from April to June compared with 233,600 in the corresponding period last year. Despite a claim by Home Office ministers that Labour had significantly reduced crime, the recorded crime figures showed that more than 3,000 offenses of aggression and violence, from spitting and threats to murder by bullet and blade, take place in England and Wales every day. Overall, recorded violent crime rose by 11 percent year to year. A different set of recorded crime figures showed that gun crime continued to rise. In the 12 months to June last year there were 10,280 offenses. In the year to June this year, the figure rose to 10,590, more than double the rate in 1997 when Labour came to power. There was a substantial rise in the use of imitation and replica guns, which are frequently modified to fire bullets. Americans will be interested in the comments of Home Office Minister Caroline Flint, who said of the gun crime increases, "Of course just having a gun pointed at you is a frightening experience ... but around two-thirds of firearms offenses involve no injury at all." David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "No amount of Government spin will hide the fact that violent crime is out of control. There is now one gun crime an hour." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- On US shores "right to carry" laws have increased and voilent crime is down. Go figure ;) On a slightly different note Weapons and Tactics for Personal Defense did an article a while back on edged weapons and firearms in voilent crimes and based on statics one is much more apt survive a firearm than knife attack. Interesting to say the least. Regards, Travis --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:00:39 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Ron Balicki Seminar in NJ Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Integrated Martial Arts is hosting Ron Balicki for a two day seminar this Sat and Sunday, Nov 20th and 21st. If anyone is interested you can call us at (973) 422-1500 or visit our web site at www.imafit.com for directions. Thanks, Don Edwards --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest