Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:30:04 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #425 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dos Manos application (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Michalek?=) 2. Re: Dos Manos application (George Ugarte) 3. Re: Dos Manos application (iPat) 4. Re: Dos Manos application (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Dos Manos application (steven ledwith) 6. Re: Dos Manos application (steven ledwith) 7. Re: opening a school (Angel Pastran) 8. schools (Ray Terry) 9. Dos Manos, part 3 (Marc Denny) 10. Re: Dos Manos, part 4 (Ray Terry) 11. Baseball bats (Julian Gilmour) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:13:24 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Michalek?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos application Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Concerning the knife discussion, you might be intrested in this: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1345182004 (McConnell cracks down on knife crime JACK McConnell went on the offensive against Scotland's growing knife culture yesterday, announcing a series of tough measures he hopes will stem the "scandalously high" human toll from knife crime, particularly in Glasgow.) a very interested reader from germany, greetings rené --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:27:49 -0800 From: George Ugarte To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Dos Manos application Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just wondering ... does anyone know if the guy with the baseball bat went to jail? Isn't this an example of what self defense is not? > Martin produced a baseball bat and struck Coleman in the upper torso > multiple times, Spear said. Paramedics pronounced Coleman dead at the > scene. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:52:16 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos application Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net one incident with a baseball bat was when we suprised a burglar and in the chase he pulled the bat out while standing on a grass slope. He swung it around and we stalked like wolves till he tired - especially after the chase - verbally baiting him. He tried to flee over a fence but never made it. The neighbours kids got to open their xmas presents on xmas day. wet grass, a slope, a chase while off work with a heavy cold, someone desperate....thats not covered in most gyms ; ) on a nightclub door when someone cameback with a ball bat, took it like i catch a thai kick, moving off centre and trapping it. Boy ran away quickly. It worked out because i didnt have any space to move away - had no choice and his swing was also hampered. Consider that one to be fortunate! get out of the gym sometimes, get into the woods. > --- Ray Terry wrote: > > > Something to consider... Does your training provide > > you with the dos > > manos skills necessary to deal w/one ballbat using > > attacker? > > > > If not, why not? -- iPat www.amag.org.uk live for today, live for tomorrow --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos application To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:59:24 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > get out of the gym sometimes, get into the woods. Train in a gym??? We train outside all year long. Rain or shine. Well, if it is raining too hard we might cancel class that day. :) Yep, training out in the elements is the best, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:43:47 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos application To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well I have yet to be taught irimi, tenkan, or kote gaeshi "the way aikido uses it" from any of my escrima instructors. Come to think of it I have never seen an escrima teacher demonstrate a wrist lock and throw the way Aikido teaches it, but I have not trained with GM Cacoy either, and I understand he does something like this. Now maybe I should elaborate that the guy who "attacked" me was not a fighter or martial artist, but just a construction worker on a job site with me. I probably wouldn't attempt to use a technique like that on any one experienced. They way I applied the technique wasn't exactly the way I was taught to use it in Aikido , which was against a thrust. I just let the guy swing a 1-2 and entered on the 2, I didn't pound the guy either after I took the bat from him. I just stood over him and asked him if he wanted to try again. He didn't. --- Ray Terry wrote: > > Oddly enough I have been attacked by a person with > a > > ballbat. It was not an escrima technique I used to > > defend but an Aikido entry, which worked at the > time thankfully. > > How does/did that entry vary from any of the > standard eskrima entry > techniques? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:47:08 -0800 (PST) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos application To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I would think for most school owners it is probably a liability issue, as their insurance usually only covers their school. --- Ray Terry wrote: > > get out of the gym sometimes, get into the woods. > > Train in a gym??? We train outside all year long. > Rain or shine. > Well, if it is raining too hard we might cancel > class that day. :) > > Yep, training out in the elements is the best, imho. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:58:41 +0100 (CET) From: Angel Pastran Subject: Re: [Eskrima] opening a school To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mister Magtutudlo, I live in Caracas, Venezuela, and I am an advanced Student of Iaido and Kobudo, and practic Kali. I think, You shoud open your own School and ask a sooner Guro of your city and ask him , to do some courses of Kali. S.K.T. Note :Excuse my bad english, but I speak Spanish. --- Magtutudlo escribió: > This was forwarded to me by a friend of mine. > Because I mentioned to him > that I'm planning to apply for a business license - > MA related. > > > > dear folks > > When is the right time to open up your own martial > > arts school. Some folks start soon after they earn > > their black belt, and some folks start one when > their > > teacher says they can. So, my question is more of a > > personal one. When does a person "know" when their > > ready to serve the community as a martial arts > > instructor? I hope I get some answers from most of > you > > regular posting members. > > > > n I am also planning to open a school here in > St. Augustine, FL and > was wondering if for example you're not a member of > a certain organization > or something like endorsed by a known Guro in FMA > (or other related FMA). > Would there be problems. I know for sure that they > will ask you who you've > been trained or where di you get the FMA? Any ideas? > > n Also, are there any FMA schools here in St. > Augustine, FL (within > the radius) because I haven't seen anyone that's > teaching FMA because i'd > like to meet them for courtesy sakes. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:20:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] schools Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I would think for most school owners it is probably a > liability issue, as their insurance usually only > covers their school. We just continue the FMA tradition of teaching Eskrima outside... in backyards, parks, in the mountains, on the beach, etc. Or course it helps teaching in a climate like California or the Philippines. If I was still back in Ohio, where they actually have winter weather, we'd probably be an inside school instead of an outside school. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:05:33 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Dos Manos, part 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > How ironic it was! Could you perhaps give us the website of that daily > paper? Because I'd like to read more about it. My comments on the story > matter depends on after I read and what it was all about. Thanks. > > Bobby You are right to be hungry for more details, but what I posted is the the complete article. > My question is why did the Ex-husband hang around after he say the other > man with the bat? If I was on someone else's property with no real > reason for being there (unless picking up my kids) I would have run back > to my car and called the police. Some fights are just not worth the > effort, and if someone wields a bat then in my mind they mean business. > (Does not matter if they are just trying to scare me or not, I don't > play the odds that they are in this frame of mind) > > Jared Dame Given the sparsity of details in the article, we are left to our own devices. There being no mention of children (good point btw, I had not considered that possibility) what I get is the ex-husband was not willing to accept his being the "ex". In other words, this was a classic two males fight over a woman-- and apparently she was "worth the effort" in his opinion. He went over to his rival's HOME. > Clearly the answer is to ban and confiscate all > baseball bats. :-) > > (Of course, Coleman was dumb for not having a gun or > two on him...) ;-) > > Joe Witty reparte suggests itself at this point, but I shall refrain ;-) > > Something to consider... Does your training provide you with the dos > manos skills necessary to deal w/one ballbat using attacker? > > If not, why not? > > Ray Terry Guro Inosanto once disarmed a hostile baseball bat in a city park. Tangent: Strange little stories about Guro I. occasionally cross my path e.g. from someone on the mat at Rigan Machado's school in Torrance who used to be a student (academic not MA) of "Mr. I" was he was a teacher in Palos Verdes. "Did he ever tell you about when he karate chopped a desk in half when some kid dissed him?" Guro I's version when I asked him: "Well, I was still pretty fresh out of the 101st Airborne and I simply pounded the desk for emphasis and it broke-- it must have been weak wood , , ," > Stupid is as stupid does. > It's so unfortunate a life was lost over B.S. I don't know what the guy did, but whatever it is, I doubt he deserved to die. > > -Steve Kohn So, and this is the question lurking in this little story that intrigues me the most: What does one do if the ex-husband shows up at your door in a disrespectful manner? Hide inside and call the police? Have your wife answer for you? Step outside? To what purpose? What if he is bigger/stronger? What will your wife make of these differing courses of action? Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dos Manos, part 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:31:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So, and this is the question lurking in this little story that intrigues me > the most: What does one do if the ex-husband shows up at your door in a > disrespectful manner? Hide inside and call the police? Have your wife > answer for you? Step outside? Let the Pit Bull go outside for a potty break... Ray "Just tying two threads together" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Julian Gilmour" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:01:09 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Baseball bats Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all Regarding the baseball bat issue, it should have been avoidable altogether, however if we are talking about physical responses alone… If it were impossible to just get away I would use the strategy that Guru Inosanto described at a seminar I attended last year (a strategy he had used personally). It basically required being quick enough to get inside the swing and do a ‘snake’ disarm. He did however say he broke a rib in doing so, but it’s better than a broken cranium. If you miss the swing (and it misses you!) I suspect closing immediately following it, and this would leave plenty of options once attached and up close and personal. I also suspect an untrained person at this point may continue to grasp the bat partially trapping themselves. If I had a bat and had to use it to defend myself – I would probably go for the legs as I feel it would be more difficult to evade, is unlikely to be fatal, and people with broken ribs can still run after you ;) If anyone suggested the outlawing of baseball bats at this point, I would say the following: Suggesting the outlawing of bats, guns, knives, weapons in general or otherwise disarming Americans in the USA seems to me to be unworkeable, impossible, unwise and pointless at best. I would say to anyone suggesting this that either I strongly disagree with them or I have severely misunderstood their post. I say this because IMHO I think occasionally people’s posts are entirely misunderstood on this forum ;) Peace and respect to all on the list Julian --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest