Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 07:49:15 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #447 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re:Left-handers win in hand-to-hand combat (John Montes) 2. Re: to dan "justifying FMA" (Johnaleen) 3. Dekiti and Pekiti (Leo Salinel) 4. Santa Clara / San Jose (Ray Terry) 5. re: Eskrima for Self Defense (Marc Macyoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: John Montes Subject: Re:[Eskrima] Left-handers win in hand-to-hand combat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey guys thanks for the response! Yeah I had been shown some Sinawali by a man named Guro John Peterson. Unfortunately, my short time spent with him (I consider him a very innovative player) I was experiencing sleeplessness at the time, so that particular morning/afternoon was a hard one for me, learning-wise. But yeah, I do have a tape of Ted LucayLucay which shows some Sinawali drills, unfortunately for me, they're partner drills and I can't seem to find Escrima players here in Santa Clara, so... not only do I find myself wanting to learn Sinawali, but Largo Mano really interests me. I was very sad to find that Guro Leo Giron had passed away. Since I live in Nor Cali it wouldn't be a big stretch for me to have trained with him. Is Tracy Bahala Na even around anymore? Anyways, Im ranting, but, if anybody is in the area wanting to train with me, hit me up. btw I always enjoy learning new methods of training! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Johnaleen" To: Cc: "DG Youpa" Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:43:04 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: to dan "justifying FMA" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dan Wrote: In response, I guess I am, in part, trying to justify the time and energy I spend on FMA and related activities. And now that you mention it, I suppose I do really enjoy the camaraderie and good old physical activity enough to keep doing it for those reasons alone. I appreciate your helping me to see that. On the other hand, I am wondering how well the FMA satisfy the "fighting prowess" problem if I somehow find myself in an otherwise unavoidable violent situation. ******** Dan, FMA is a great long term reality based martial art for long term training to augment the long term core sda training you should get as i suggested when you frist posted your question. As far as styles and what one you should take or what you should watch out for in a teacher, well if they make sure to point out what will work on the streets and what might not and that they are teach you all the aspects of the art with a full explanation of what your doing and for what area your training in your fine. FMA is on the top 5 list of long term realty base martial arts i suggest to everyone after they have trained there core sda stuff. and the core sda stuff is not long term training, its something you keep up on your own mostly and cross train with. take some core gun and knife, and street awareness stuff, then pick a few long term realty based arts to train in like JKD and FMA and your good to go.... its all about finding what suits you best after your core sda stuff. Ms J. Bows deeply.. PS... anyone that represents themselves or their training program or their art as the only way or the best way for everyone just ends up getting people killed because of their close mindedness. seek out what's best for you after the core sda, and you will be fine... --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 03:53:56 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Dekiti and Pekiti Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net actually, the phrase "Pekiti-Tirsia" referring to GM Leo Gaje's family (Tortal) brand of FMA comes from the Spanish words "piquete tercia" or "piquete tersia", which literally means "[close] thrusting range", and the spanish word "piquete" is the exact translation of the English word "picket", as in picket fences. The Tortal family system was called Pekiti-Tirsia or Piquete Tersia/Tercia because it emphasized really close range techniques. The Spanish word "piquete" has been Filipinized in many dialects. One time when my father and I went to this place, a big bus was trying to squeeze itself into a small parking lot. He commented, "Masyadong PIKITI (PEKITI) ang bus na yan sa pader" (that bus is too CLOSE to the wall). I inferred that his use of the word "pikiti/pekiti" came from his Bicolano vocabulary as I've never seen or heard that word even in standard Tagalog dictionaries. The word apparently has been absorbed in other dialects, e.g., Visayan, Ilonggo, Bicolano, etc. I think GM Jerson Tortal just changed the word Pekiti to Dekiti to reflect his own branding of the same family style, although the differences in his movement from GM Gaje's are quite very obvious. (Think of it as GM Leung Ting branding his own school of Wing Chun as "WING TSUN" spelled with a T instead of a CH in order to brand his particular school and lineage.) ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 07:22:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Santa Clara / San Jose Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hey guys thanks for the response! Yeah I had been shown some Sinawali by > a man named Guro John Peterson. Unfortunately, my short time spent with him > (I consider him a very innovative player) I was experiencing sleeplessness > at the time, so that particular morning/afternoon was a hard one for me, > learning-wise. But yeah, I do have a tape of Ted LucayLucay which shows some > Sinawali drills, unfortunately for me, they're partner drills and I can't > seem to find Escrima players here in Santa Clara, so... !?!?! You can't find any Eskrima people in Santa Clara? Santa Clara, CA? You can't shake a stick (pun intended :) without getting it countered here in the San Jose / Santa Clara area. Isn't Mr. Peterson still here in the area? Jon Ward is here. Danny Alvendia is here. I'm here. Jason and Jena Inay are around here somewhere. GM Cacoy Canete is here in the summers. Ron Lew teaches Cacoy's Doce Pares when Cacoy is back in Cebu. The list goes on. Ray "San Jose Ray" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:16:37 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Eskrima for Self Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "Krishna Das" > No, I see the point quit clearly sir. You behave in exactly the manner of a > person who is trying to promote himself at the expense of others, right > down to the personal attacks. If you think that was a personal attack, then your little duck feelings are way too close to the surface. When I come after someone, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that it is personal. What's more, there ain't no doubt when I am out for blood. If I were attacking, you wouldn't have to accuse me of it by pointing out a dash of scarcasm in my writing, that's because not only you, but everyone within twenty miles would know it. Or do you accuse me of it to justify your own? Let's just wait and see... > Unfortunately, the awareness skills that you brag about seem to have failed > you. You are not even paying enough attention to know which person you are > addressing. Yeah, a lack of coffee often makes me dense. I apologized to the person who I mistook as you. But now I know who I'm talking to...happy? > "You seem to be saying the everyone else is no good > and the only safe thing to do is learn from you." > > And with the last paragraph of your message you confirm such. Damn boy, you must have missed all the credits, references and attribution that I do in all of my work. Pretty impressive feat since I work my butt off at giving credit where credit is due. It's a funky set of concepts called teamwork and cooperation...perhaps you've heard of it? It's what people who respect each other do. Thing is because I draw information from so many sources, I don't bow in any one direction. I give credit across a wide spectrum. But somehow you seemed to have missed that. Oh well... > I assure you that your mind reading skills are as sparse as your awareness > skills in this case. Yeah my wife says the same thing...your point? >I did in fact read through your whole site and found > it to be, more than anything else a monument to your ego. Well, I'll just have to file that in the "nay" category of reviews then. On the other hand, if as you later indicate in this response, you yourself are such a guru at what it takes to survive in the slums, how come you haven't done a Website sharing your profound insights and understanding of violence, crime and human nature? I mean obviously if I have done such a flawed and weak job then your sterling insights should just illuminate the world. C'mon studmuffins, do a better job. Be my guest, put your sage wisdom on the realities of violence out there for the world to review. If you think I have done such a contemptable job, it should be no trouble at all for you to put out something that leave my poor ignorant ass in the dust. I can see it now, all the world wide acclaim and applause for revealing the TRUTH (tm) about fighting, self-defense, et all raining down on you. I am dead serious when I say I heartily invite you to do better... and that buddy boy, is where the rubber hits the road. Put your own stuff up for peer review. If you know so much more than I do, then you should have no trouble at all diverting all the traffic from my bombastic and egotistical site. Or perhaps you fall into Oscar Wilde's definition of a critic? > Would these be my only two choices? To believe you, or to live in a fantasy > world? I do not think so. Nope...I believe I said in my first post that I don't care if you agree with me or not, what is important is that you do your own research into those fields make up your own mind about the points that I talk about. > justifications> What? My deathless prose doesn't impress you? I'm crushed But my challenge to you stands, feel free to do better. Enlighten not only the millions who are interested in personal safety, but also my poor benighted and ignorant self with what is the truth about self-defense. > I wonder, has anyone ever suggested that you talk too much? I mean really, > eleven paragraphs It's a learned flaw. In my youth I would just go off on people and bust heads. Since that time I have learned this thing called communication. It's funny, but I have to hit less people using it. I may bore them more, but they don't end up in the hospital. >of railing at that poor fellow who asked you about using > Eskrima for self defense, No, that was me railing at your snotty response. Remember? I was confused about who I was talking to. >I understand that you think martial arts are > useless for learning self defense Again you misquote me. What did I say exactly? Oh yeah, here it is... >>Flat out, when it comes to personal safety, safety of your family, >>self-defense and crime prevention your "fighting prowess" is less than 5% of >>the equation. If you choose to ignore the other 95% of the issues involved >>you're setting yourself up to get your brains blow into a fine pink mist if >>and when you find yourself in a live-fire situation. >>The martial arts are NOT self-defense training. Can they be used for that >>purpose? Sometimes. Useless? Do you see the word useless in there? I don't. Where'd you find the word useless in that quote? >and that if people would only follow your > advise, do what you tell them to do, and of course by your books and go to > your seminars, that they would all be just fine. But eleven paragraphs > seems a bit much. Funny, in all those eleven paragraphs I don't recall saying that. Maybe you were reading another post...perhaps written by my evil twin Skippy? > I merely find your stance on martial arts in general, and the Filipino > martial arts in particular to be both demeaning and insulting. There is a lot of behavior that is occurring under the banner of martial arts that warrants critique, because it is outrageous, inappropriate, dysfunctional and flat-out dangerous to the student. (and BTW, notice I didn't use "criticism," I used the word critique. Although the former is understandable, I do try to stick with the latter. Which means I can back up what I am saying with cites, sources, examples and references) Am I saying every school is this way? No. That every teacher is this way? No. Am I condemning the martial arts? No. I have tried to make that very, very clear.But there are just some folks who refuse to believe that (maybe because in their heads they can't separate the martial arts from what goes on in the MA world). But it seems that everytime I turn around someone is squealling and squalling that I am dissin' the martial arts as your post demonstrates. What I am condemning is unacceptable, dysfunctional behavior and sleazy business practices that seem to be acceptable within the MA culture -- but are not acceptable in the mainstream of society. A lot of the dysfunctional crap that is going on is easily identifiable as such, IF you step out of the MA mindset. That's why I drew from outside fields and standards to do my critique of common trends in the MA culture/world/market. I present the information, not for the people who are engaging in those unacceptable behaviors, but to help consumers make informed decisions and to spot the danger signs. Because even if what I am saying doesn't apply to your particular school/organization, it definately applies to some others. If it is out there, then people need to be warned about it. Or do you have an objection to informed customers? > > Sorry that all that the free information provided on the No Nonsense > Self-Defense page made you think I was trying to scam money from you. I > wish you the absolute best of luck if you ever do meet someone in a dark > and lonely place...'cause, quite frankly, you're going to need it. > > > And here we have it, the bottom line, you doing what you claim in the > beginning of your message that you do not do. > You talk about your free information (in just the same manner as the guy on > the late night infomertial tells you what he is going to give you for free > when you buy the useless contraption he is selling) then you tell me that I > will not be able to cope with meeting someone in a "dark and lonely place" > . Which as I said confirms my view that "You seem to be saying the > everyone else is no good and the only safe thing to do is learn from you." Nice stretch of the imagination there Hoss. But, that is not what I said at the beginning of my post. Specifically I said >I do not claim, nor have I ever claimed > a) an unbeatable fighter > b) to have all the answers > c) to be able to teach you how to be an unbeatable fighter Which kind of debunks your allegations about my evil and machiavellian sales tactics. I don't know how many different ways I have to say this before it gets past those closed and locked gates of your mind, but I am not trying to sell my unbeatable fighting system. Any such inference is entirely on your part. As such, any further attempts to imply that idea is a red herring on your part. > If you ever decide to apply for work at a circus stay away from the > mentalist tent, you are not very good at it. (I would recommend you check > out the clowns) Argh! A touche...I do fear I breath my last... Hey wait a minute, didn't you start this post by saying that I had been insulting? Oh wait, I get it, it's unacceptable when others do it, but okay when you do the same thing. In case you forget you said, and I quote: >You behave in exactly the manner of a >person who is trying to promote himself at the expense of others, right >down to the personal attacks. > The truth is I grew up in one of the worst slums in Calcutta, and I doubt > that there is much that that you could tell me about dangerous places. Well good for you. And like I said, since you are so obviously qualified, instead of wasting time criticizing my works, just feel free to toddle on out there yourself and do a better job. >As I > remember, you had your adventures that made you the bad ass expert you are > today in what was it? Long Beach? Bad ass? Moi? The only guys I ever knew who thought they were bad asses were ones who very specifically avoided contesting with anyone even remotely close to their own caliber. While they spent a lot of time training and talking about how tough they were, when the fecal matter hit the fan, however, they tended to be somewhere else. Unfortunately, their absence usually left the job to some poor schmuck like me. And any expertise I have, comes not from my fighting prowess or training in the martial arts, but from research into fields outside simple fighting and professional experience. Experience, which incidentally, the goals and standards of the job far superceeded merely "kicking ass." Sad to say, that the people who thought that was the purpose of the job didn't last. > After reading your attack on the fellow who first asked you for information No, no, no, no...we've established that was a case of mistaken identity. The person who asked the question I responded to in as helpful way as I could. I only got cranky in my second post after you got snarky with me. If you are confused about this chain of events you can find them here Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima See? I do try to be helpful. > all I can say is that you leave me with the impression that you are a > venial bully with delusions of grandeur, and that you are in fact selling > something. Well a) you have the right to your opinion b) don't buy it, and c) if you are so convinced that you can do better, be my guest. It is easy to criticize and claim that what someone else is doing wrong. The hard part, is getting up and doing a better job. You've shown you can do the former, let's now see how well you do with the latter. I mean after all a man of your qualifications should have no difficulty explaining the complexities of violence, human interaction, crime and the legal ramifications and complexities of self-defense. Consider me your humble student...please begin to show me your vast, superior knowledge. What sage wisdom do you have for me and the rest of the poor benighted souls on this list about the realities of violence and how martial arts prepares you for them? M --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest