Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:15:14 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #448 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Eskrima for Self-Defense (Stephen Lamade) 2. Re: lefty/righty thing (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. Re:re: Eskrima for Self Defense (Krishna Das) 4. mr. macyoung, i don't know you, but thanks (John Titus) 5. Pekiti Tirsia (T. Patrick Murray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:39:47 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima for Self-Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yeesh! I thought I'd stumbled onto the rec.martial.arts site. For what its worth, none of the information on Marc's excellent website compels me to buy his books or attend his seminars - and so far I haven't. I'll admit that he has raised my consciousness, however. A lot of what he says about self defense boils down to this: learn how to drive like a Formula 1 driver if you'd like to have a lot of fun and develop good driving skills; wear your seat belt, watch out for black ice, and don't drive drunk when you're driving in your neighborhood - and watch for drivers with no respect for the rules of the road. Yeah, I know it's a weak analogy. The thought of a friend of mine who was ploughed down out of nowwhere by a drunk driver made me think about it though. He (my friend) was a pretty good driver too. Unfortunately, he never saw it coming. For that matter, how many of us develop decent self-defense skills but don't bother to put on a seat belt when we're "just going to the store" for some groceries. My martial arts skills just may help me to survive a criminal encounter and protect my family - but I'm a 100 times more likely to die in a traffic accident. Best, Steve Lamade --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:01:06 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: lefty/righty thing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Doc, With all due respect, what you have stated may seem true in theory, but watch any fighter...they will rely on their dominant hand just about 100% of the time. I remember attending a seminar conducted by a prominent FMA instructor, who stated that "In Kali, there is no such thing as being left-handed," then he did a very nice florete pattern with his left. BUT, then the entire seminar was conducted with preference to the righty, and the instructor never used his left again for anything, except to back up the right. If there is no such thing as being left-handed in Kali/Eskrima, then the reverse should be true as well. Being a lefty, I have learned to adapt to a right-handed world, but when the stuff hits the fan, I will depend upon my left to pull me through, just as my right-handed brothers will rely on their dominant hand when in dire straits. Of course, there are those arguments of "What happens when your dominant hand is injured?", which are valid, and any good FMA system will include ambidextrous training. I personally learned right-handed in order to teach, since I have only met a handful of other left-handed eskrimadors in my time in the arts. What you said about the angles is right on the money...the formal numbering system is simply reversed for a lefty, but numbers go right out the window when we leave the formal structure in training, and enter into spontaneity. BTW, I write with my right hand, and use my left for everything else, always have. There are more people like me out there, who write with one hand but use another for everything else, than there are pure righties or lefties. Being a baby-boomer probably has something to do with this, when being a lefty wasn't as readily accepted in school as it is today. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 12/11/04 7:05:01 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Regarding Lefty righty thing like Crafty said it does not really matter. > Instead of watching "how" your opponant is throwing look instead at "what" is > coming. Thus is Serada terms a lefty #1 is really like a righty #2 so just > take it like a #2 and be done with it. Also remember in the early training > the #'s are given as a reference point. No body fights with numbers it is all > free form attacking what is open and countering what comes. Leftness and > rightness is just a matter of training. If you are a righty it is difficult > to catch a baseball in the right hand vs left. If you are a righty you write > with your right. Is there any real difference in the skill? I do not think > so. As a dentist I use my left for very fine meticulous work just as I do my > right but for different types of meticulous work. The goal is to become > ambidexterous in your MA training so I have to agree with Crafty 100% the > siniwalli is the way to go. > > Regards, > > Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. > Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Krishna Das" To: Subject: Re:[Eskrima] re: Eskrima for Self Defense Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:19:46 -0600 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc Macyoung wrote: > > >If you think that was a personal attack, then your little duck feelings are >way too close to the surface. When I come after someone, there is no doubt >in anyone's mind that it is personal. What's more, there ain't no doubt when >I am out for blood. If I were attacking, you wouldn't have to accuse me of >it by pointing out a dash of scarcasm in my writing, that's because not only >you, but everyone within twenty miles would know it. > >Or do you accuse me of it to justify your own? Let's just wait and see... > I guess we get another eleven paragraphs of you pounding your chest and telling the world what a bad as you are. I will just sit quietly until you are done. > >Damn boy, you must have missed all the credits, references and attribution >that I do in all of my work. Pretty impressive feat since I work my butt off >at giving credit where credit is due. It's a funky set of concepts called >teamwork and cooperation...perhaps you've heard of it? It's what people who >respect each other do. > No I did not miss your credits. It is just that they do not relate to my point. Which is still "You seem to be saying the everyone else is no good and the only safe thing to do is learn from you." If you use cites from others to "prove" this point, so what? > > >>I assure you that your mind reading skills are as sparse as your awareness >>skills in this case. > > >Yeah my wife says the same thing...your point? > Well I suppose my point (since you need it spelled out for you) is that you are full of projection, as your last post demonstrates. As much as you keep trying to cover it over, you projected that the other poster was criticizing you and you went after him. All those paragraphs were aimed at him and his situation (feel free to deny it if you wish but that would just make you a lier as well as a bully) So you don't really pay as much attention as you claim. You can blame it on not having enough coffee all you want, but what it demonstrates to me is that you react rather than think. If you blow it so bad with something as simple as telling two people apart and react in such a violently dogmatic way, why would anyone trust you with anything more important, like their personal safety? > >>I did in fact read through your whole site and found >>it to be, more than anything else a monument to your ego. > > >Well, I'll just have to file that in the "nay" category of reviews then. > Please do. > >On the other hand, if as you later indicate in this response, you yourself >are such a guru at what it takes to survive in the slums, how come you >haven't done a Website sharing your profound insights and understanding of >violence, crime and human nature? I mean obviously if I have done such a >flawed and weak job then your sterling insights should just illuminate the >world. > >C'mon studmuffins, do a better job. Be my guest, put your sage wisdom on the >realities of violence out there for the world to review. > The really wonderful thing about coming to America for me was the access to education (something I don't think some native born Americans are really aware of sometimes) Are these my only two choices? To agree with you or "build a better website"? When I see a beat up old airplane cluged together from spare parts borrowed drunken pilot, I don't need to know how to build a plane myself to know I don't want to get on that death trap. I do notice though that you keep avoiding my point about your website, which is that it is designed to sell you, and that it does so in large part by portraying your "competitors" (the Martial arts) in a negative light. > >If you think I have done such a contemptable job, it should be no trouble at >all for you to put out something that leave my poor ignorant ass in the >dust. I can see it now, all the world wide acclaim and applause for >revealing the TRUTH (tm) about fighting, self-defense, et all raining down >on you. > I'm sorry, you seem to have confused me with you. You are the one peddling "The Truth" and in need of ego boosting. I am merely pointing out (again and again) that you sell yourself in much the same manner as all those full page ads in the martial arts magazines, (put down everyone else, claim to have the true knowledge). As much as you try to blow smoke across this central issue, it will not go away no matter how many temper tantrums you throw. > >Nope...I believe I said in my first post that I don't care if you agree with >me or not, what is important is that you do your own research into those >fields make up your own mind about the points that I talk about. > But I have done my own research and made up my own mind, that is what you are throwing your tantrum about isn't it? After reading your web site I come away thinking that everything on it is trying to sell you as the only real choice. And that you do so in part by denigrating martial arts in general by relegating them to the position of a social club. (which is what you did in the post I took exception to). So the truth is that I can do my own research but if I do not come up with the conclusion that you want me to, then I am wrong and you throw a tantrum. > >What? My deathless prose doesn't impress you? I'm crushed > Frankly nothing about you impresses me, except perhaps for the size of your ego. > >But my challenge to you stands, feel free to do better. Enlighten not only >the millions who are interested in personal safety, but also my poor >benighted and ignorant self with what is the truth about self-defense. > Your "challenge" is nothing but a smoke screen to avoid the real issue here. > >It's a learned flaw. In my youth I would just go off on people and bust >heads. Since that time I have learned this thing called communication. It's >funny, but I have to hit less people using it. I may bore them more, but >they don't end up in the hospital. > Really? Is that a threat? Are you going to try to send me to hospital? Well, being as you are such a dangerous person, and a professional and all, with so many accounts of how you have hurt people in the past, often in a criminal manner, written by your own hand, I have to say that I am now afraid for my life. > > >of railing at that poor fellow who asked you about using > >>Eskrima for self defense, > > >No, that was me railing at your snotty response. Remember? I was confused >about who I was talking to. > As much as you keep trying to cover up this lapse with lame excuses, you did not go off on me, you went off on the other guy. You spent all those words talking about him and his family in such a way as to engender fear. No matter haw you try to play it, you still made a lapse in judgment. If you will do that with something as simple as being able to tell the difference between two writers, why would anyone trust you with the important things. > > >>I merely find your stance on martial arts in general, and the Filipino >>martial arts in particular to be both demeaning and insulting. > > >There is a lot of behavior that is occurring under the banner of martial >arts that warrants critique, because it is outrageous, inappropriate, >dysfunctional and flat-out dangerous to the student. > I think you should perhaps turn this on yourself before you try to use it on others. Personally I have found you to be "outrageous, inappropriate, dysfunctional and flat-out dangerous to the student". The fact that you spend so much time here and in your books stroking your ego and trying to convince everyone how dangerous you are certainly strikes me as dysfunctional. The fact that the smallest perceived criticism or disagreement throws you into a rage and your one response is to flame the victim of your ire seems to me to be "inappropriate" (I am not talking about our interchange, I intended to provoke this response in you, it makes you easer to deal with and for those who are wondering about your real character, why they get a good example) Just a quick look at the archives of this list show that even with fact that you denigrate that martial arts in general seem to me to be "outrageous" since by your own admission you are an outsider, having no real experience with studying a martial art long enough to do anything other than put it down.. And given that a student is likely to try to emulate the teacher I think you have to be "flat-out dangerous to the student". I pity the person who emulates your behavior. > > > >I don't know how many different ways I have to say this before it gets past >those closed and locked gates of your mind, but I am not trying to sell my >unbeatable fighting system. Any such inference is entirely on your part. As >such, any further attempts to imply that idea is a red herring on your part. > Red herring? English is not even my first language and I am clearer on what I said than you are. I have never said that you are trying to sell your "unbeatable fighting system" . I said that you are trying to sell yourself. Do you deny this? And I said that you do so by putting martial arts down. Do you deny this as well? > > >Argh! A touche...I do fear I breath my last... > >Hey wait a minute, didn't you start this post by saying that I had been >insulting? Oh wait, I get it, it's unacceptable when others do it, but okay >when you do the same thing. > Did I say it was unacceptable? I just think that if you dish it out you should be willing to take it as well, something that you are obviously not able to do. Remember you set the tone of this conversation with your put down of martial arts. I find it interesting that your only method of dealing with criticism is to flame people. Is that what you teach in your seminars? > >Bad ass? Moi? > >The only guys I ever knew who thought they were bad asses were ones who very >specifically avoided contesting with anyone even remotely close to their own >caliber. > So please tell us, when was the last time you were "contesting with anyone even remotely close to your own caliber"? Please tell us with who and under what circumstances. Please don't include your students or any time when you were in control (such as in one of you seminars) Personally, I have you pegged as one of those guys who doesn't do this at all, it would be much to damaging to your ego to have anyone best you in such a contest. >>After reading your attack on the fellow who first asked you for > >information > >No, no, no, no...we've established that was a case of mistaken identity. > What we have established is that you flamed the wrong person, trying to play on all of his perceived weaknesses and fears because you were not paying attention. But you obviously can't admit this because you can't admit that you could ever be wrong about anything. So you blame it on your coffee. Whatever you say now, you attacked the wrong guy. This tells us a lot about you. You also seem to be unable to admit that you are selling yourself on your website, I guess you just think we are all too stupid to notice that the focus of your website is to promote you. You would have us believe that you have developed your site from altruistic motives, but I think you have done so from mercenary ones. This in my opinion makes you dishonest. And you also seem unable to admit that you regularly put down the martial arts, as I said in my first post "Damning them with faint praise", and that you do this to market yourself. So throw as many tantrums as you like, threaten me all you want, try an obscure what you have said and done, it really doesn't change the fact that you are selling yourself and that you are trying to do so through putting down the competition, and that your only tactic to deal with critics is to try and flame and intimidate them. Sincerely, Krishna Das Patanjal _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "John Titus" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 13:00:19 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] mr. macyoung, i don't know you, but thanks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i practice fma for self defense. i also (try to) practice environmental awareness, i scan ahead when driving, i put my wallet in my front pocket in crowds, i've learned firearm basics, and when somebody sets off my radar, i try to put a whole lot of distance between us. a fight is not a good option, particularly if i'm walking around with my girlfriend. self defense is a much bigger game than just the ranges practiced in fma. thank you for expressing this to the list in the way that you did. i had an instructor tell me once-" if you ever get into a real fight, you have seriously messed up somewhere along the way" as for all the squabbling, a line i use in class: less yappin, more trappin --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:37:09 -0500 From: "T. Patrick Murray" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pekiti Tirsia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>I dont know how you will define "evolving" but the way I see it Pekiti Tirsia is more of the mix martial art rather than an "evolving art". << What you say is true in that is pulls from varius art forms, however keep in mind that all these art forms are a part of the phillipino culture, including Silat. Muslem phillipinos have a rich fighting history as well. When I say that Pekiti is an evolving art, I mean that the style itself has evolved since Tuhon Gaje first named it in the 70's. Originally it was known for its 64 strikes. Today Pekiti Tirsia training does not even include the 64 strikes. I know Masguru G. Alland still teaches it, as well as a few of the earliest Pekiti instructors. Pekiti vs Dekiti really are two different branches, producing different fruit, although sharing common roots. I like the simplicity and directness of Dekiti, but the more eclectic style of Pekiti allows for greater creativity and unique intepretations of techniques. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest