Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:18:40 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #451 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Pekiti/Dekiti (Genfil Villahermosa) 2. Re: LSAI club at ADB (Felipe Jocano) 3. RE: SinawaliTrade.com (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 4. The worst place in the world (iPat) 5. RE:Target Focus Training (Martin Diggins) 6. 1st Annual Los Angeles Open Full Contact Stick Fighting Championship (al sardinas) 7. Re: Lefty, Righty, Ambidextrous, Matched and Unmatched, Bila teralism (abreton@juno.com) 8. Re: Kim's lefty repsonse (Kes41355@aol.com) 9. Re: The worst place in the world (jay de leon) 10. Re: lefty/righty (Kes41355@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:17:37 -0800 (PST) From: Genfil Villahermosa Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Pekiti/Dekiti To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Have you tried to talk and learn from both of them about their system? Please visit the Dekiti Tirsia Siradas Website http://www.dekititirsiasiradas.org Click to join dekiti-tirsia-siradas --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 01:00:25 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] LSAI club at ADB To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Oh. Please greet Mang Romy for me. Last time I saw him was at Guro Elmer's wake. Thanks, Bot --- Cogie Gutierrez wrote: > Romy Valenzuela's lineage > > On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:02:10 -0800 (PST), "Felipe > Jocano" > said: > > Hello Cogie, > > > > As an LSAI instructor, I'm just curious - who's > > teaching you guys? > > > > Bot > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] SinawaliTrade.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:23:01 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, first of all, they have four nodes each, which is good, it makes them more durable. They are very light, seem quite hard (I've not put them to a real test, as I reserved them for demonstration purposes, so I don't know how durable they are in frequent use). The burn pattern looks nice (spiral around the sticks) and the carvings on the one end are a nice touch. I think they are either lacquer finished or then the burning process has made them a little sticky, but no so much that it would bother. They're a bit small (about 70 cm/27.5") and thin (maybe 2.5 cm/1") which makes me doubt they would take too much punishment, but as I don't want to ruin them anyway, I use them in carenza and other purposes where they won't get hit too heavily. Worth the price, I think. - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Alex 'Twist' Bohusch [mailto:Twist@online.de] > Sent: 10 December, 2004 23:18 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] SinawaliTrade.com > > > Hi Marko, > how are the labsika sticks? Could you describe em? > > Thanks, > Alex > > > marko.ronkainen@nokia.com wrote: > > >>Has anyone had any experience with SinawaliTrade.com? They > >>have some really good > >>prices, unfortunantly its setting off my "too good to be > >>true" alarm and I'm > >>worried about giving them a CC number. > >> > >>Thanks, > >>Mac > >> > >> > > > >I recently ordered a batch of items from them (a ginunting, > >a karambit, a pair of dulo-dulo and a pair of labsika sticks). > >The prices are good, but the shipping is quite high and they > >use UPS of which I have very bad experiences. It took two days > >for the package to get from the Pinas to Finland -- and almost > >a week until I got it!). I had to give them my address at least > >five times (twice in writing) and they still managed to deliver > >it to the wrong address. Their custom service started getting > >wise-assed with me and I had to contact the superior of the > >person I was originally talking to until I got things on the move. > >But, I did get the package. The quality of the items is OK -- > >for the money. Don't expect top of the line items and you get > >pretty decent practise gear. The scabbard of the ginunting is > >quite cheap looking and only half of it is hardwood, I'm not > >sure whether it is kamagong as they say, at least the other > >half is not, it's not even the same colour. Also the handle > >of the karambit is not kamagong either. The blades look like > >they're factory made (in a cheap factory) but they serve for > >training purpose. > >>From what I've heard (and this is second hand knowledge) the > >owner (Toby Barthelmes) doesn't actually live in the Philippines > >himself, but in Germany and he has some people who do the > >manufacturing and shipping for him. > >All in all, if you want cheap blades you want to use for > >hard practise without sheading too many tears if you damage > >them, go for it. If you want top of the line combat-ready gear, > >forget it. > > > >Oh yeah, I paid with online money order through my bank, > >which was quite convenient. > > > >- Marko > >_______________________________________________ > >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:41:14 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The worst place in the world Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net just thinking - with the recent references to growing up in tough places, does it really matter where you are? a fist is a fist after all. -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Martin Diggins" To: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:08:26 -0000 Organization: Codico Subject: [Eskrima] RE:Target Focus Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Anyone got any experience of Tim Larkin's Target Focus Training ? Website makes a lot of claims and prints a lot of testimonials. www.targetfocustraining.com Regards, Martin -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.290 / Virus Database: 265.4.8 - Release Date: 08/12/2004 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:38:42 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] 1st Annual Los Angeles Open Full Contact Stick Fighting Championship Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This past Saturday I attended the 1st Annual Los Angeles Open Full Contact Stick Fighting Championship hosted by Pakamut International. Because this event was not my primary purpose for being in LA, I saw the form competition in the morning and the team stick fighting competition in the early evening. Congratulations to Master Felix Roiles and his organization of instructors, students and volunteers for putting on a successful event. Of the stick fighting I saw, I was impressed with the Mount San Antonio College team especially with team member Tremaine Parker, she was holding her own against the male members of the other teams. I also had the pleasure of meeting Guro Bart Hubbard and one of his instructors, Guro Ramon Rubia. Before I even introduced myself to Bart I was impressed with his compassion towards the very young competitor who took fourth place in one of the forms competition. Of the 5 judges, he was the only judge that gave encouragement to this future winner. From my brief conversation with Guro Rubia, I could determine that he was very knowledgeable in the arts when he was discussing my instructor's Largo Mano. In the early evening I was able to talk to Guro Hubbard and was also impressed with is general knowledge, his reasoning for a team's defeat and his overall character. It is always good to see people like Guros Rubia and Hubbard. The Filipino Martial Arts can only grow with leaders like them. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:55:31 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Lefty, Righty, Ambidextrous, Matched and Unmatched, Bila teralism Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net -- "Marc Denny" wrote: Woof All: ) A common response to this ego chatter is to think that matching siniwali >drills (right meets right, etc) show ambidexterity. Under pressure, such >training often reveals results exactly as Kim comments. This is, I think, >because in the drills that most people do, the complimentary hand is, in >effect, slip streaming the coordination of the dominant hand. Marc, I got to say that's an inspiring post. I've been concentrating on Espada y Daga. My thought process was "if I pick up two weapons, the likelihood they'll be the same length is pretty slim, and I'll still be practicing two hands". I don't carry a stick around, so anything I pick up would likely be the 'espada' companion to my knife. However, I recently compared double sticks with a kung fu guy who was very good with double broadsword and, although I think I held my own, I could tell I was rusty. Sometimes you have to put your ego down. I also admire working your working to improve even while you were recuperating. I've been wracked by one injury after another recently and that's good the hear. A question: When you say "sinawali", do you mean the kind of sinawali pattern that people are used to (not necessarily the drills, but the motions) or is 'sinawali' here used to mean 'two sticks'? Without giving the store away, could you be more detailed about the lessons you learned? >PS: QUESTION: My understanding is that monkeys do not have dominant and >complimentary sides. Why is it that we do? Like you said, I'm often surprised where this list goes. I would think that it is a development in tool handling ability. I think that hand dexterity goes hand-in-hand (pun intended) with the development of intelligence, conceptual ability and speech, and that takes some rationing of brain reserves. It could be that evolution said, in effect, "you inherited two forelimbs and two hind limbs, and your evolutionary ancestors started walking upright, thus freeing the development of dextrous hands; this tool making is the wave of the future, but to wire this thing into your brain, you really only need to develop one, because I always have the hardware (brain) to delevelop the other if something happens to the dominant hand." Yes, I know apes use tools as well - using stones to break hard shells and twigs to catch termites. I wonder if they always use the same hand? The point is, you don't see apes with the dexterity and intelligence to create, for example, artwork whereas you see humans do so (even illiterate ones who did cave paintings thousands of years ago). I remember in nueropsychology that a human infants grasping is an all or nothing response - the whole hand either grasps or does not, and there's no refinement (it's sort of like learning FMA for the first time). Gradually, of course, human beings develop dexterity of the hand to an amazing level - just talk with any occupational therapist about the intricacies of the hand (and to think you deliberately put it in a position to get whacked by a rattan stick). If I remember right, that requires inhibition of some of the muscles firing during the all-or-nothing grasp. Interestingly enough, I've heard that developing the non-doniminat hand is one of the things recommended to keep your brain young. That's not necessarily contradictory. If the development of physical dexterity (manipulation of muscles) is the inhibition of select portions the all-or-nothing grasp, the use of that physical dexterity - fine motor skills - can still be driven by conceptual parts of the brain that function better with more use. And, in contrast to common sense, inhibition may be exercising the brain (nuerologically speaking - not like the Seinfeld episode where George gets smarter the less he gets, well, lucky). Why not develop the non-dominant hand? I'm thinking it's a conservation of effort thing. Most of us can use the non-dominant hand, just without as much dexterity. I'm picturing a cave man flintknapping a stone tool: he (or she) can hold one stone in the non-dominant hand - in a multitude of positions - and let the dominant hand do the fine-tuned work, and things work just fine. Same thing with weaving baskets, tying knots, etc. It could also be that one-sidedness allows one to use one handed weapons easier. Think of one of our ancestors throwing a spear. Having a dominant side "knowing" it was the popropellant fource and the non-dominant side "knowing" it was a bracing force would be an advantage in that middle range of our development when we were walking upright using tools, but not using language too well. When you look at films of apes attacking each other with branches, you don't have that same sophistication. And, evolutionarily speaking, it would be far easier to hard-wire that in (with little downside, since for most of our time on the planet writing has not been widely used) than to set up a caveman dojo to churn out cromagnon black belts in spear throwing after just five years. I also wonder if there's something about the division of the brain into hemispheres, although one would think the motor part would be able to function indepdently. All this is, of course, my being speculative. If you're really interested, I think Feldenkrais writes about this in some of his books. Miscellaneous about Pekiti vs Dekiti debate: I think there's a tendency in martial arts to want to separate 'us' vs 'them' (I have to thank tuhon Mcgrath for the concept) with 'us' being more practical/traditional/[insert your value here] and 'them' being the polar opposite: impractical/root-less/[insert the oppostite of your value here]. Step back a little and you find that the distinctions are never that cut and dry. I've now had five teachers in Pekiti Tirsia, some still very close to Leo and training with him in the PI regularly. Each of them, in one way or another, has gone back to Doce Methodos. Tuhon McGrath - who is often used as a contrast to GT Leo's Pekiti - is covering Doce Methodos in his seminars and writing about them in his newsletter. There's a foundation there. So I think the discussion of Pekiti not having its foundational Filipino roots is not entirely accurate, based on my experience. Train what's available to you, and keep an open mind. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:31:10 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Kim's lefty repsonse Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Doc, The instructor I mentioned was Dan Inosanto, and yes, I was present. I'm not for or against anybody on this point, just telling it from a lefties point of view; it is sometimes hard to relate to something unless you live it. I am left dominant (both in strength and reflexes), and would never presume to have a righty train with his left as his dominant hand just because I'm not a right-hand dominant person. I always ask a new student which hand they are most comfortable with before they begin training with me. My reasons for this are that righties often assume that it's just a matter of having the lefty put the stick in their right hand and train it this way from the beginning, and this will make a "righty" out of the person. It doesn't work that way, trust me. "Handedness" doesn't just refer to "hands"...we are also right or left dominant eyed, and this must be taken into consideration as well. In the end, I find it's always best to let nature take it's course, which I believe was the cornerstone of the training, and later teaching, of one very famous martial artist.... Kim Satterfield In a message dated 12/12/04 3:25:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > < was conducted with preference to the righty, and the instructor never used > his > left again for anything, except to back up the right. >> > > This does not impress me and I am sure is seminar dependant assuming this is > a > real instructor. What is Espada y daga? Are you any less dead if I bait > you > with my dominant hand and stick you with my short dagger? --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:35:50 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The worst place in the world To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I grew up in Metro Manila, Philippines. It would be a stretch to say it was a "tough" place. I would say there are many "tough" places in Metro Manila. My opinion is that it would not necessarily make you any tougher physically, as you pointed out. You just develop heightened awareness, and you do get to see a lot of violence up close and personal, hopefully not including you. You just learn to adjust. Anecdote : My friend George and I were going out on a double date. We were told where one of the girls lived--a real "tough" part of town. When we got there, it was worse than we thought. To get to her house, one had to walk down an "eskinita," an alley too narrow for a car. Since it was my date's house, I was elected to walk to her house, with George in the car, motor idling. Halfway to her house was a sari-sari store with half a dozen guys, drinking, the local toughs we call "tambay." Predictably, they yelled and whistled at me to join them to drink. (If you are scared or dumb enough to drink with them, you end up paying for the tab.) I ignored them, picked up my date, and walked back to the car. Nothing happened. But we all played by the rules of the game. I did not diss them, they saw me pick up a local girl, and they saw George and the car. They were right in assuming that both of us were packing. Did we always pack? No, only on special occasions. As an adult, I lived and worked in Cotabato City and province for a couple of years. Now that was a "tough" place. Jay de Leon iPat wrote:just thinking - with the recent references to growing up in tough places, does it really matter where you are? a fist is a fist after all. -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:41:30 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: lefty/righty Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Crafty, I couldn't agree with you more, I just commented, in so many words, that in order to understand being a lefty, ask a lefty what it's like to live in a right handed world, and try to make sense of the assumptions made about us. BTW, one of my major shortcomings in my training was to rely too much on my "left-side forward" stance, and carry it over to empty-hand. I boxed for years, but still put the left side forward due to a very serious shoulder dislocation early in my career. I had a helluva a left jab and hook, but had to think to get the right cross to fire. I put twenty plus years into just drilling the right cross, but it still lags a bit. As for why monkeys have no dominant side, who knows, maybe they have both sides of the brain working as one unit, but don't want to give up the secret... Kim Satterfield In a message dated 12/13/04 7:05:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Briefly reprising points made here over the years: > > 1) Whereas single lead boxing structures (e.g. a righty always having the > left foot forward) develop both sides of the body, single stick structures > as trained by most people tend to increase the difference between dominant > and complimentary sides. > > 2) Fastest initial results may come from working single stick in standard > lead. IMO this tends to lead to physical imbalances over time. For many > people double stick takes substantially more training time before good > results are obtained in fighting. > > 3) People tend to avoid true ambidexterity work because it messes with the > ego to work the complimentary side in the dominant function. > > 4) If the disparity between dominant side and complementary side has been > increased by working single stick dominant side first, it becomes even less > likely for most people that they will ever really go to work on the > complimentary side in dominant function because it will be an even larger > "ego bubble pop" to do so. > > 5) A common response to this ego chatter is to think that matching siniwali > drills (right meets right, etc) show ambidexterity. Under pressure, such > training often reveals results exactly as Kim comments. This is, I think, > because in the drills that most people do, the complimentary hand is, in > effect, slip streaming the coordination of the dominant hand. My sense of > it however is that true skill is best achieved by the complimentary side of > the body being trained in dominant side movement BEFORE the dominant side > learns the movements in question. This explains why lefties who must > undergo learning on the right side first in order to "fit in" over time > often produce stellar ambidexterity results. Those of you familiar with > Chad Stahelski, may use him as a good example of this. > > My own experience was that as I began sparring in 1986, and then fighting in > 1988 was that I could not really manifest double stick at all and I didn't > bother trying for many years. After my serious knee injury in 1992 I had > about 18 months of recuperation during which time I invested some focused > time working single stick in my left hand. Around 1995 I gave fighting > siniwali another go, and although the results showed things that needed > work, it went well enough that I entered into several years of fighting only > siniwali. I now have a strong preference for siniwali. > > I have put considerable thought into this for Dog Brothers Martial Arts. > (BTW, as we define it, empty hand is a subset of siniwali) DBMA has as its > mission statement "To Walk as a Warrior for all One's days." This > includes developing the physical skill sets for 360 situations, amongst them > ambidexterity and bilateralism and siniwali is an important part of this > work. The teaching syllabus is organized so that these skills are taken to > fighting level in a lot less time than it took me to figure it out. :-) > > So far it seems to be working for several of my fighting students who are > manifesting the material very nicely > > Woof, > Crafty Dog. > > PS: QUESTION: My understanding is that monkeys do not have dominant and > complimentary sides. Why is it that we do? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest