Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:25:15 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #456 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: The worst place in the world (Jamie Denny) 2. Drumming and Siniwali (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Drumming and Siniwali (George Mason) 4. RE: drumming and sinawali (Black Power Ranger) (Erol Weber) 5. Re: Norman's drumming (jay de leon) 6. Re: Norman's drumming (Ray Terry) 7. RE: re: Eskrima for Self Defense (Jared Dame) 8. Re: Manong Cacoy and Sakuting (jay de leon) 9. re: Eskrima for Self Defense (Marc Macyoung) 10. RE: Drumming and Siniwali (barry meadows) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jamie Denny" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] The worst place in the world Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:23:17 -0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net People have mentioned that living in "tough places" has not made them better fighters but then go on to say how the experiences have allowed them to deal with and survive things happening on the street. Are these not one and them same ?. I view myself as a better fighter because of the things that have happened to me in the past. I have gained some valuable experience in dealing with attacks on the street these have therefore better equipment me in altercations. Perhaps if it was an arranged match with rules the outcome may be different. Hope that made sense Thanks J iPat wrote:just thinking - with the recent references to growing up in tough places, does it really matter where you are? a fist is a fist after all. -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:46:44 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Drumming and Siniwali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof Norman/BPR, Badger, et al: Your posts are very interesting to me. In DBMA rhythm plays an important role. Indeed we call one of our training methods the metronome and as anyone who has attended one of my seminars can attest, there is lots of Salsa and lots of Drumming music and people are encouraged to move with the music. At class this week we will be playing with an idea I had this week of a siniwali pattern to be done in 6/8. Badger, would you elaborate more please on your "MA for Drummers" workshops? TIA, Crafty Dog > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] drumming and sinawali > > I too share badger's sentiment...Not only drumming, but music also has > helped me learn Sinawali with great ease...The striking patterns tend to > follow a musical cadence (such as waltz time with three, six, and nine count > in inayan sinawali). This has allowed me to commit them to memory much > easier. the rest of the counts are very musical and can be easily drummed > to and incorporated with music to aid flow...much like drumming is > incorporated to help the flow for Capoeira. I have experimented by taking > some drumming patterns from different regions in the Philippines and seeing > if i can blend them into one distinct pattern to aid the flow with espada y > daga, sinawali, and lock and block for serrada...so far i have used the > following drummings from the following folks dances: > > From the mountain suite: > Lumagen > Bumaya > > From the Muslim Suite: > Singkil > Asik > VInta > >Norman/Black Power Ranger , , , > >In my case, drumming allowed me to pick up sinawali in pretty much no time, > >much to the chagrin of the woman who was showing me. Occasionally I've > >also offered drummers' workshops entitled "martial arts for drummers" based > >on striking and rhythm. > > > >Now if only I could finally get the hang of doing espada y daga > >"backwards", with the stick in my left hand and daga in my right. > > > >Badger Jones > >Siling Labuyo Arnis --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:01:31 -0500 (EST) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Drumming and Siniwali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Crafty, I agree totally with your post about rythms. I make a living as a jazz musician. And I used to work in a band with Walfredo de los Reyes. We did a lot of Cuban and Afro-Cuban music. I also spent some time in Africa. The study of the rythm structures of music are imperative to being good in any martial art. I find that everyone has what I term as a "natural rythm." This is a timing structure that is natural to a person's physiology and to their experience in life. I find that if you learn to read the rythm of a person, then it is much easier to defend against them and also to be successful in an attack. Triplet figures, or 3 against 2 and 3 and against four, is a timing figure that most people have a very rough time with. I practice this rythm figure in my footwork and handwork. I also find that a lot of people neglect spending time on the timing of their footwork. I would love to hear more about your training methods. I am always willing to learn new things and see different ways of doing things. It always broadens one's horizons. Thanks for your intellegent posts. Geo ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:07:38 -0800 (PST) From: Erol Weber To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: drumming and sinawali (Black Power Ranger) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Norman, Could you tell me a few of your sources for your drumming samples you listed? I would love to be able to play them while training or use to choreograph with some demonstrations. Can they be obtained online, or how would you suggest I go about acquiring such songs? Any help you can give would be very appreciated. Salamat Po, Erol Weber Cabales/Cadell Serrada Escrima -----Original Message----- From: "Black Power Ranger" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] drumming and sinawali Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:22:36 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I too share badger's sentiment...Not only drumming, but music also has helped me learn Sinawali with great ease...The striking patterns tend to follow a musical cadence (such as waltz time with three, six, and nine count in inayan sinawali). ...so far i have used the following drummings from the following folks dances: >From the mountain suite: Lumagen Bumaya >From the Muslim Suite: Singkil Asik VInta i have found that the drummings to these songs can help aid those struggling focus when learning eskrima/kali/arnis...i am not saying that these ARE THE TOOLS but they do provide helpful guidelines...and, as always, i am open to suggestions.... Thank you all for listening, Norman Inayan Eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:33:27 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Norman's drumming To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Cogie : As I tried to make clear, my folk dancing days were a looong time ago, in another reincarnation. I mentioned this particular dance, "Sakuting" because every time I read somewhere that the old arnisadors hid their FMA training in dances, I remember this particular dance. Jay de Leon Cogie Gutierrez wrote: Hi Guro Jay, I guess you're a folk dancer in the US on the sidelines? ;-) Cogie On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:38:20 -0800 (PST), "jay de leon" said: > Norman wrote : > > "...so far i have used the > following drummings from the following folks dances: > > From the mountain suite: > Lumagen > Bumaya > > From the Muslim Suite: > Singkil > Asik > VInta." > > > One of my favorite dances (to watch) is Singkil, danced around and > between two pairs of bamboo sticks, just like "Tinikling" but more regal > and pulse-pounding. The main dancers are a Muslim princess and her > lady-in-waiting who carries an umbrella for her mistress and follows her > around, shielding her from the sun. Love the visual, music and Muslim > flavor. You can really sinawali to the beat. > > When I was in grade school in the Philippines, way before I started doing > FMA, I danced the "Sakuting" in a school presentation. You hold two > sticks and the basic movement is doing a high triple witik with a > partner. > > Jay de Leon > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Norman's drumming To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:05:16 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... I mentioned this particular dance, "Sakuting" because every > time I read somewhere that the old arnisadors hid their FMA training > in dances, I remember this particular dance. FWIW, I once asked Cacoy Canete about this possibility. He knew the dance, but thought someone would have to have a pretty inventive mind to see useful Eskrima hidden in this dance. Doesn't mean he is correct, just his opinion. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] re: Eskrima for Self Defense Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:45:16 -0700 From: "Jared Dame" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc, Do you know of anyone that practices Kali or the like in Loveland or Ft. Collins? I would be interested in getting in contact with someone up here. Also checked out your website that you and your wife have and will plan to come down one of these weekends when I am not working to check the school out. Jared Dame NextView Systems Integration Team jdame@digitalglobe.com -----Original Message----- From: Marc Macyoung [mailto:marcmacyoung@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:18 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: Eskrima for Self Defense > From: DG Youpa > I just want to clarify that I was the person who asked > the initial question about self defense, and that I > really appreciate the material you have provided on > your Web site. I think you confused me with another > person on the list. and > From: argyll@comcast.net >> Uhm, Marc . . . the guy you're replying to, Krishna Das, isn't the one who posted asking for advice on self defense. . . . Oops....that's what I get for replying to posts before I have had my coffee. Note to self, to prevent stomping the wrong person, drink coffee and make sure. Sorry for the case of mistaken identity. My bad. M _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:57:55 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Manong Cacoy and Sakuting To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I would tend to agree with him. The dance (Sakuting) is pretty simple. But I mentioned it only because it is the only folk dance I know with FMA overtones, unless you really want another stretch and say they danced dances like the "Tinikling" and "Singkil" because it improved their footwork, or the "Binasuan" because it improved their hand balancing agility, etc.? . Any FMA scholars out there that have researched the dance/FMA connection? Jay de Leon Ray Terry wrote:> ... I mentioned this particular dance, "Sakuting" because every > time I read somewhere that the old arnisadors hid their FMA training > in dances, I remember this particular dance. FWIW, I once asked Cacoy Canete about this possibility. He knew the dance, but thought someone would have to have a pretty inventive mind to see useful Eskrima hidden in this dance. Doesn't mean he is correct, just his opinion. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:46:51 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Eskrima for Self Defense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: iPat > Hi Marc, could you explain to me the realtionship of the brain in self > defence and whether it is gender specific. > I understand (maybey wrongly) that the limbic area of your brain deals > with emergency situations, while the frontal lobes need to strategize. YIKES! You just asked a question that if you asked a gender psychologist, a biophysiological pyschologist, a cognative psychologist and a behavioral psychologist you would not only get four different answers, but you'd probably get a donnybrook worse than if you asked "who teaches "real" JKD?" I can give you a good layman's introduction by pointing you towards Daniel Goleman's "Emotional Intelligence" In the first part he not only gives you a workable idea about what you are asking but also some of the discoveries of Joseph LeDoux about the importance of the amygdala and the "back alley" to it that bypasses the higher brain functions. Then you can take what you learned there and read Peyton Quinn's "Real Fighting" about the influence of adrenal stress. And then to really cook your noodle read Dave Grossman's "On Killing" and Grossman/Loren Christensen "On Combat" to see the difference between training and killing/combat. Around that time you should be whining "I want my mommy!" when it comes to coming up for an effective program to train people for "self-defense." It's a feeling I am well acquainted with. Because the more you know, the more complex it all becomes. > How then can the martial artist best learn to develop this area? Is it > by competition? To me that seems like a different mindset. If I knew the answer to that one, I'd be rich. The reason that I piss people off who want one homogenized, cure-all answer is that I tell them that there is so much stuff going on there is no simplistic answer. After reading those four books, you will begin to have an idea what is involved in the question and why the subject is so complex. Yes, there are incredible differences, influences, aspects and countless other contributing issues -- enough so that there are all kinds of experts in all these fields trying to figure it out. And they ain't agreeing on what is hard wiring, social conditioning, circumstantial influences and personal choices. Despite the massive amounts of brain power that is focused on the subject, it is made even more complicated by all the people who claim that there is no difference. Unfortunately, folks in those camps are a whole lot closer to the general public than the folks trying to figure the problem out, so the idea that there isn't a difference is given far more credence than it should be. I mean hey, what do all those Ph.Ds, scientists, researchers, educators, military and police trainers know? M --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "barry meadows" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Drumming and Siniwali Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:15:18 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Interesting thread, I to find music very important in training,espeially sinawali.One favorite cardio routine is doing 20-30 minutes straight of sinawali cadence non-stop.Not only does music ease the pain but also I enjoy working with the timing rythems.Ive went as long as months without doing any siniawali whatsoever,then when coming back to it,find it is so ingrained into my being that it is like breathing. Sinawali has been the Golden door of Flow for me.Year after year it reveals it's secrets.I never tire of it.My boxing,striking of all kinds,weapons of all kinds,even my submission grappling benifits from what sinawali has imparted.I cant imagine training without it. Barry >From: "Marc Denny" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [Eskrima] Drumming and Siniwali >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:46:44 -0800 > >Woof Norman/BPR, Badger, et al: > >Your posts are very interesting to me. > >In DBMA rhythm plays an important role. Indeed we call one of our training >methods the metronome and as anyone who has attended one of my seminars can >attest, there is lots of Salsa and lots of Drumming music and people are >encouraged to move with the music. At class this week we will be playing >with an idea I had this week of a siniwali pattern to be done in 6/8. > >Badger, would you elaborate more please on your "MA for Drummers" >workshops? > >TIA, >Crafty Dog > > > > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] drumming and sinawali > > > > > I too share badger's sentiment...Not only drumming, but music also has > > helped me learn Sinawali with great ease...The striking patterns tend to > > follow a musical cadence (such as waltz time with three, six, and nine >count > > in inayan sinawali). This has allowed me to commit them to memory much > > easier. the rest of the counts are very musical and can be easily >drummed > > to and incorporated with music to aid flow...much like drumming is > > incorporated to help the flow for Capoeira. I have experimented by >taking > > some drumming patterns from different regions in the Philippines and >seeing > > if i can blend them into one distinct pattern to aid the flow with >espada >y > > daga, sinawali, and lock and block for serrada...so far i have used the > > following drummings from the following folks dances: > > > > From the mountain suite: > > Lumagen > > Bumaya > > > > From the Muslim Suite: > > Singkil > > Asik > > VInta > > > >Norman/Black Power Ranger >, , , > > >In my case, drumming allowed me to pick up sinawali in pretty much no >time, > > >much to the chagrin of the woman who was showing me. Occasionally I've > > >also offered drummers' workshops entitled "martial arts for drummers" >based > > >on striking and rhythm. > > > > > >Now if only I could finally get the hang of doing espada y daga > > >"backwards", with the stick in my left hand and daga in my right. > > > > > >Badger Jones > > >Siling Labuyo Arnis >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest