Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:07:12 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #469 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: KALI (WoodyTX) 2. Re: When Your Instructor Quits (iPat) 3. Merry Christmas! (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: When Your Instructor Quits (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: Maligayang Pasko/Mele Kamele Maka/Merry Christmas (Felipe Jocano) 6. merry christmas (guro marsh) 7. Christmas Wishes (Bill Lowery) 8. PAETE/Philippine Trip 2005 (GatPuno@aol.com) 9. Maligayang Pasko (rob mulligan) 10. Re: FMA Dance Form (jay de leon) 11. Ocampo System (Earlwin Famor) 12. Training partners / schedules (malcolm knight) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:31:56 -0600 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] KALI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Silat and Putar Kapala. You're doing the open-hand stuff, sometimes called Panatukan, sometimes not. You'll find that there's usually at least two words for everything, and sometimes a word means at least two different things. Unlike many "national arts", the FMA's have never been codified into one curriculum. In one sense I envy you. The initial phase of learning FMA was a neat experience, as it was so different from the other arts. I remember repeated instances of brain-lock from trying to get my mind to think and body to move, all in time with the instructor. Where are you located? You might be able to swing a weekend seminar and "drink from the firehose". WoodyTX On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:41:37 -0600, Tadd Mullarkey wrote: > I have been practicing Hubud..takedowns...open-hand techniques. > Finger-locks, etc. Foot work, seelot? buddha kapala. do these sound > familiar? We rarely spar as this dude pulls muscles...not in the best > shape. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:20:51 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] When Your Instructor Quits Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net one of the methods i use is to demonstrate the technique, oversee its practoce but allow the student to struggle with the technique and solve the problems by themselves. That way they 'own' that technique and develop the confidence to work things out themselves Does guro not mean 'guide'? as an instructor there are a lot of pressures that students dont see, rent, electric, ones own training time. keep respect for your guro, he has his journey and his demons too but he has good intentions. You'll find someone else soon but in teh meantime get hold of some of the other students and workout in a garage. Its your journey after all. good luck and best wishes to all at this time of celebration. > > Has anyone ever had their FMA instructor discontinue > their teaching the arts? -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:53:52 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, silatworld@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Eskrima] Merry Christmas! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To all martial brothers and sisters; (December 25, 12:53 am Philippine time) Merry Christmas to everyone! May the season of peace be truly peaceful for us all! Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:02:15 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] When Your Instructor Quits To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Anthony, Grieve first, as you did. Then after a while, move on. Yes you have to mourn your loss. Acknowledge it. But after some time (I can't tell you when, you'll be the best judge of that), you have to get on with your training and living, all the more now that you found another teacher. It sounds serious, him losing his passion for teaching all of a sudden, but that is indeed his burden to bear. Hopefully one day he will resume his teaching. But remember that if indeed he does and you decide to resume learning from him, things may never be the same between you two again. Bot Mine recently quit after taking my initial two years > in the art with him. I feel a sense of loss as the > break was rather sudden for reasons akin of the need > to find onesself and his losing his passion for > teaching. > > When sharing the arts of life and death, you create > a > very strong bond to those who instruct you. > Assuming > you take it as seriously as I do. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:09:45 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Maligayang Pasko/Mele Kamele Maka/Merry Christmas To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Magandang umaga, Gat Puno; A worthy cause indeed. I hope that you will be successful in convincing them to perpetuate the arts they have learned. Gumagalang, Bot --- GatPuno@aol.com wrote: > Bot, > > This is what my goal, for a few years now. I have > been begging all the old GM > of Arnis not only in Laguna, even the one in Quezon, > and Rizal. I am hoping > that they can teach someone, thier arts and live > with the new Generation so > when their gone, the arts will continue to live with > someone else. I am hoping > also, to see more New generation Masters of Arnis, > Eskrima or Kali to step > forwards and share their arts to us, in any means. > Either by means of teaching > otheres, or competing against us.. This is the only > way to keep the Art alive, > pure in the heart of the Filipino people and non > Filipino. > > Salamat, > > Maligayang Pasko, Mele-kamele maka, Merry Christmas, > Felis Navidad, Vous Noel > to all... > > Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:15:19 -0800 (PST) From: guro marsh To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] merry christmas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net we wish everyone a merry christmas to you and your's be safe this holiday season Punong Guro Rodger Marsh Chief Instructor Angeles Escrima C.E.O. Martial Art Technologies http://www.martialarttechnologies.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:15:48 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Christmas Wishes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from all at The Laban Baston Eskrima Club, Newcastle, England. Bill Lowery --__--__-- Message: 8 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:05:09 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] PAETE/Philippine Trip 2005 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Genfil Villhermosa, We are schedule to be in Paete, July 10-27, but my student will be there only for two weeks. After the Fiesta of Magdalena, Laguna July 19 and Fiesta of Paete July 25 both weekend has an Arnis Tournaments, the Trip will be over. E-mail me before June, and I will send you the complete program. I would love to have you on this trip.. On 1978 I used to teach in Siniloan, if you still recognized the place of Dr. Buenaceda, he used to learn from my dad later on, I took over the teaching.. My mother is born in Siniloan, Laguna, but I was born and raised in Paete, Laguna. Paano Maligayang Pasko, Salamat, Gat Puno Abon. > Can you send me the requirements? I live in Los Baņos and usually pass by > Paete when I go to Siniloan. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:27:08 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Maligayang Pasko Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Maligayang Pasko to everyone one the list! A special thanks to Ray Terry, who puts his time and his heart into keeping what we do alive. He keeps us informed and aware; with an even hand, no matter what system or style we do. No matter how much we fight or argue, we must remember that we are still a family, a small family, but a strong family. Ray has figured that out and fights tooth and nail to keep us together. All my thanks. Rob Mulligan WWW.KWIKSTIK.COM --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 06:35:59 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA Dance Form To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As posed by my question, it would seem then that the dance/FMA connection may be broken down into : (1) Dance enhances attributes helpful to FMA or MA training--agility, timing, rhythm, grace, balance, etc. Is there a correlation, for example, between Bruce Lee's cha-cha hotfooting and his kung-fu prowess? Was he a better martial artist because of his cha-cha, or the other way around? (2) Dance can be another form of presenting or showcasing a martial art or martial art technique, as posited by Bot Jocano, below, and others. On a literal level, that is what I see when I watch dances like Sakuting. (3) There are hidden FMA techniques in many of dances, from the common folk dances like Itik-itik and Sakuting to the Moro-more plays and dances I profess ignorance of Moro-moro dances. I have seen a couple of moro-moro plays, and I don't even know if Gat Puno Abon and I are talking about the same thing. Just like Bot, I would be interested in any scholarly work on this, like GP Abon's forthcoming book. On the other hand, after Gat Puno Abon's post below, I won't be able to watch a light-hearted Itik-itik or a graceful, sinuous Pandanggo sa Ilaw without looking for the neck breaks, lock releases, etc. I might even attempt to write about this in the future, if I get a little bit more educated on it, thanks to all your contributions. Jay de Leon . . GatPuno@aol.com wrote:Bot, and Guro Jay De Leon, I just want to add some of the very special note. about the topic of FMA Dance. Some of the Folk dances has some martial arts value, but we are all forgetting the facts, that the FMA is hidden to the Combat Dance of Moro-moro play. The Carenza, Pamamltacia, Halad, and other names for the Shadow dance like stick fighting, Bolo fighting and etc. This is where the beauty of the true artistic form of FMA. If time permit my book of "Moro-moro" will be available for everyone by2005. In Titled, The MORO-MORO The Shroud of Arnis De Mano.. Its includes 10 sets of Combat dance form in Espada y Daga and 10 Set of Combat dance in Solo Baston and one set each sample Combat dance in Doble Baston, Kalasag y Baston and Sibat. This Dance form is ideal form to practiced Solo with partner or multi partner. In regards of the other Dance, try the itik-itik dance (is a dance practice of breaking the the neck of a duck, which represent the wrist and elbow break. The Sakuting, is the dance of weilding the Sinawali techniques, The Banko Dance is training the balance of FMA practitioner, preparation for the Rice Field Combat, There more there the Pandanngo sa Ilaw, practicing the reverse lock, escape from ane wrist grab and locks. The Maglaltik, the energy point of the Mano-mano fighter getting ready for battle, they hitting those point of the body to keep the body warmed and flexible. What about the old forgotten dance of "Sabong" two man or more, wearing the Rooster attire and and holding knife, sometimes are only one knife often time you see two knifes. Their tried to dance in Drum and bamboo bit, and try to cut each others. This is some of the evidently seen FMA Dance forn in the Filipino Folk Dance. Hope it's help. Good day, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet GAT Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA > Again, another anecdote comes to mind; another friend > of mine met an older teacher of the FMA at a > tournament. The gentleman demonstrated his art in a > dance form; moving the stick in a choreographed > pattern such that he was dancing with the stick in > hand. My friend found his demonstration impressive, > since the grace, balance, rhythm and intent were > there. In this case, the art was showcased in dance > form. I would suppose that this is the other side of > the coin; martial arts now shown as martial dance, and > presumably, transformed back to martial arts again if > necessary. > > Just a lay opinion, > > Bot _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Earlwin Famor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:40:02 -0800 Organization: http://go.to/earlwin Subject: [Eskrima] Ocampo System Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net 13 Dec 2004, Master Felix Roiles and Master Erwin Mosqueda (Doce Pares) paid a visit to Master Roger's school (an Ocampo system?) for a friendly match. Master Roger was defeated within a two minutes, a two minute match, perhaps. Master Erwin landed thirty hits, and Master Roger made only three hits. I forget the actual name of the match, but I think it's called, largo mano, or long distance stick fight? They each used one stick. I've seen Master Felix Roiles on video, and he's blazing fast, too. Re: "Doce Pares Multi-system. Volume One." I wonder how he would have faired had he been in place of Master Erwin. After the match, Master Roger still believes strongly in his Ocampo system, according to Master Erwin. I had an impression that this Ocampo system is more of a "street fighter" style than the old Cebuano Doce Pares? Can you guys tell me more about this Ocampo system? I'm just curious. I was told that it's an off shoot from Doce Pares, like these other systems. I don't know much about the art, so far. I began my training recently. I wished I had particpated in our gym class back in highschool, because arnis is taught in highschools, too. I don't even know what style they teach in Notre Dame de Manila, but I suspect it's probably the Balintawak style, as it's just a few blocks off the that part of Manila called, Balintawak. Master Erwin found a disturbing practice, these Ocampo students only wore arm pads, and not the full gear used by WEKAF, or any other sort of protection. After the match, however, Master Erwin suggests that students should be encouraged to wear the WEKAF gear. Master Erwin used to practice with no gears, too, and found that it's ridiculously unsafe. I don't like the WEKAF outfit too, it's too loose, and the back straps don't hold well. Anyway, Master Roger seems like a nice guy, said Master Erwin. I met him too, he seems nice. Master Erwin is not a show off, and welcome new friends. So, a friendly match after all, and they remained friends. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Earlwin Famor [earlwin@compuserve.com] ICQ: 115423282 http://go.to/earlwin X-No-Archive: yes XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ~ --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "malcolm knight" To: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:15:07 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Training partners / schedules Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all and seasons greetings , Seems to me that the majority of folks on this mailing list are in USA , wel I'm here in little old Coventry , England , UK. Only recently got into arnis although been interested in martial arts for about 30 years . Tried a few things on and off but ( like I reckon most of the ordinary guys in the street ) I aint no acrobat and a lot of stuff just aint practical unless you can hise away on a mountain a practice 24 / 7 you aint gonna dispatch many evil doers with classical stances and flowery movements. Anyway I was in Philippines sep/oct 2004 and visited Diony Canete for a chat , wanted to SEE how stick translates to knife , empty hand etc. The result of this is that I now have a couple of sticks , some training reference material and nobody to train with . Anybody around here wanna practice with a novice? Found a teacher local but I really don't like his teaching , seems he don't wanna actually get you to practice anything , won't even show me the basic strikes/angles ?? When I was doing kung fu / tae kwon do / aikido the class consisted of marching up and down the training hall repeating basic techniques / combinations over and over so that they become almost second nature. Does this not apply to arnis ? how do you guys train ? I would have thought basic strike / angle partner performing basic block /parry and counter . after some time random strike ( but done slowly ) get the student to recognise where the attack is coming from , block , counter and try to initiate a flow. Speeding up the above up to the individual students. Siniwali drills used as feeder routines to teach students to find openings for disarms , varying rhythms to penetrate defences etc. Well I think thats enough from me so what do you guys think ?? And remember I'm here waiting to learn / practice impart what little knowledge I may have. If you guys wanna know about my visit to Diony then let me know and I'll write in my thoughts . Malcolm K. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest