Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:23:59 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #5 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: (Earlwin Famor) 2. RE: www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 3. Little man with a big appetite (Marc Denny) 4. Re: www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv (Jared Dame) 5. RE: www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv (George Mason) 6. Re: www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv (iPat) 7. Local Machete Attack on Officers (argyll@comcast.net) 8. San Jose incident (Brian Hamilton) 9. Re: San Jose incident (Jared Dame) 10. Re: Little man with a big appetite (Steve Kohn) 11. Re: San Jose incident (phoneyman@telus.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Earlwin Famor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:52:18 -0800 Organization: http://go.to/earlwin Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 03:04:06 -0800, you wrote: >If after the recent stir on the Digest has sparked your curiosity . . . Well, I hope we could all move forward from my previous brain fart comment. I just started on 25 Nov 2004, Thanksgiving Day, and I had no clue of what I was talking about. I wish I had asked questions off the digest, instead of making dumb assumptions on my post. I gave you all a wrong picture, and it never happened. In fact, I still don't know much, and I would hope you guys forgive me for what I did. My offer still stands, I would personally apologize to all of Master Roger's students if allowed. I promise I won't weep like a dummy, like the first time that I apologized to him. You have my number. Sincerely, Earlwin Famor 6 Jan 2005 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Earlwin Famor [earlwin@compuserve.com] ICQ: 115423282 http://go.to/earlwin X-No-Archive: yes XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ~ --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:20:10 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yeah, well, Akebono sure didn't look hungry... ;-) It says in the Royce Gracie interview that this was a K-1 match... Didn't look like that at all! I always thought grappling is not allowed under K-1 rules. - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Steve Kohn [mailto:musilat2@yahoo.com] > Sent: 07 January, 2005 03:04 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv > > > I guess Royce was the hungrier of the two. Who knew? > > -Steve Kohn > > Ray Terry wrote: > Royce Gracie makes Akebono tap. > > http://www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv > > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 04:48:45 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Little man with a big appetite Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof: Steve wrote: > I guess Royce was the hungrier of the two. Who knew? That's very funny. yip! Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:26:14 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net He sure wanted it more, but I wouldn't say he was the most hungry....That other guys was freakin nasty fat. out On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:03:54 -0800 (PST), Steve Kohn wrote: > I guess Royce was the hungrier of the two. Who knew? > > -Steve Kohn > > Ray Terry wrote: > Royce Gracie makes Akebono tap. > > http://www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com 970-663-6354 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:02:31 -0500 (EST) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I saw the match and was amazed at how quickly Royce delt with him. ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:54:44 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] www.fightreport.net/videos/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net think thats changed Marko. Im sure Erik Paulson was considering a fight in it. It says in the Royce Gracie interview that this > was a K-1 match... Didn't look like that at all! > I always thought grappling is not allowed under K-1 > rules. > > - Marko -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." --__--__-- Message: 7 From: argyll@comcast.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:17:59 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Local Machete Attack on Officers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That guy was hit with a lot more than a taser before he was shot: "REDWOOD CITY Police kill man after stun gun, spray fail - Michael Cabanatuan Tuesday, January 4, 2005 Police shot and killed a 35-year-old man who withstood efforts to subdue him for eight hours -- including being pepper-sprayed and shot with a stun gun and a weapon that fires hard rubber plugs -- before he jumped through a window and charged officers with a machete, authorities said Monday. The man was visiting relatives on the 1200 block of Valota Road on Sunday when his family called police to report he was acting strangely and might have assaulted his nephew, Capt. Scott Warner said. When officers arrived about 12:30 p.m., the man waved a machete at police and retreated into a bedroom, where he barricaded himself in a closet. In an attempt to get him to drop his weapon, police doused him with pepper spray eight times, hit him with rubber plugs from a weapon known as a sage gun roughly 15 times and shot him in the chest with an electronic stun gun twice, police said. He withstood the pepper spray and sage-gun blasts, Warner said, pulled one stun-gun probe out of his chest with his hands and used the machete to slice the second probe's wires. Police opened fire when the man, still wielding the machete, jumped through a window and charged them, police said. He died at Stanford Hospital. As of late Monday, his name had not been released. Five officers were placed on administrative leave pending an investigation" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/01/04/BAG1TAKJIF1.DTL&type=printable In another report the police observed: As observed by the police spokesman: "'I've never seen someone completely impervious to all of our less-lethal options that we use,' said Captain Scott Warner of the Redwood City Police Department. 'It really didn't seem to have any effect. We could tell that it hurt, but it didn't hurt him in a way that caused him to surrender or cause him to drop his weapon.'" http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kpix/20050104/lo_kpix/12346 You are welcome to try to disarm such a person, but please don't expect others to sacrifice life or limb to do so. Best regards, Argyll Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:42:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Local Machete Attack on Officers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Everyone, Just wanted to share a local incident, a man armed with a machete attempted to attack officers here in Santa Clara, CA (actually a few houses down from my mother-in-law) and was first hit with taser guns 3 times - unsuccessfully, then was shot and killed by officers. . . . It made me wonder if those men had been trained in fma, a simple disarm would've taken care of that. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:18:23 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Hamilton To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] San Jose incident Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Just wanted to share a local incident, a man armed with a machete attempted to attack officers here in Santa Clara, CA (actually a few houses down from my mother-in-law) and was first hit with taser guns 3 times - unsuccessfully, then was shot and killed by officers. Just reminded me of the post regarding folks acting irrationally when officers show up, this didn't sound like a normal occurence." snip "That happened in San Jose, and the woman was legally mentally disabled. It made me wonder if those men had been trained in fma, a simple disarm would've taken care of that. I swear, sometimes.... Peace, ~John" To play Devils Advocate to John. I believe that leathal force was justified FMA training or not. A stick is one thing you can snake the daylights outta them but a live blade on a guy who ate three taser shots moves way up my threat ladder. My two cents. regards -Brian --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:29:35 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] San Jose incident Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree, better to be safe then by being slightly off that day and mess up the disarm. J On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:18:23 -0800 (PST), Brian Hamilton wrote: > "Just wanted to share a local incident, a man armed with a machete > attempted to attack officers here in Santa Clara, CA (actually a few houses > down from my mother-in-law) and was first hit with taser guns 3 times - > unsuccessfully, then was shot and killed by officers. Just reminded me > of the post regarding folks acting irrationally when officers show up, > this didn't sound like a normal occurence." snip "That happened in San Jose, and the > woman was legally mentally disabled. It made me wonder if those men had > been trained in fma, a simple disarm would've taken care of that. I > swear, sometimes.... > > Peace, ~John" > > To play Devils Advocate to John. I believe that leathal force was justified FMA training or not. A stick is one thing you can snake the daylights outta them but a live blade on a guy who ate three taser shots moves way up my threat ladder. My two cents. > > regards > > -Brian > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Little man with a big appetite To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you sir! -Steve Marc Denny wrote: Woof: Steve wrote: > I guess Royce was the hungrier of the two. Who knew? That's very funny. yip! Crafty Dog _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:05:56 -0800 From: phoneyman@telus.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] San Jose incident Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Brian Hamilton : > To play Devils Advocate to John. I believe that leathal force was justified > FMA training or not. A stick is one thing you can snake the daylights outta > them but a live blade on a guy who ate three taser shots moves way up my > threat ladder. My two cents. Anyone armed with a potentially lethal weapon should be greeted with lethal force by police, as soon as they fail to respond to a lawful order. We just had an incident here in Vancouver where a man was killed by two officers. He failed to obey repeated orders to put down the knife he was brandishing, and was shot for it. His sister was reported in the newspaper a few days later wondering why they didn't use Tasers or something else "non-lethal" (really less-lethal.) Frankly, IMO, *repeated* orders was giving the guy slack. This whole "it's only a knife, just disarm him" thing drives me crazy. Even "it's only a stick, just disarm him" - in particular read in the context of the recent post by Ray Terry with regards to sudden death in custody. Someone who takes multiple officers to the point of exhaustion to arrest *unarmed* cannot be "just disarmed." I am *far* from an expert on FMA, but I really can't envision any amount of training that would allow me to disarm an adult human armed with a knife (or a stick), without taking risks that I would only be willing to take if I had no other choice. Knives move blindingly fast, and they don't take much contact to do crippling or fatal damage. With respect to the Police, then, I think that giving them "some" FMA training and expecting them to disarm people armed with machetes rather than just shooting them is entirely unreasonable. Pierre --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest