Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:03:50 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #8 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Machete Attack (John Montes) 2. Royce vs Sumo (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 3. CAS Iberia is selling Filipino swords... (Kel620@aol.com) 4. Re: Re: Machete Attack (Ray Terry) 5. John Montes and PO training (jay de leon) 6. Charlie Foxtrot and the Knife Wielding Thugs (Buz Grover) 7. Re: John Montes and PO training (Ray Terry) 8. Heart-stopping moments (Michael Koblic) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 18:06:29 -0800 (PST) From: John Montes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Machete Attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think there has been some misunderstanding, I didn't mean to state that they should've disarmed the machete guy, just the little asian woman with the veggie peeler (who was on prescription meds for a mental problem of some sort) whom SJPD killed. Sorry if I got you guys all riled up. Actually I would have emptied a clip in machete dude too. But I DO believe that FMA would be one of the best things to teach PO's. That's my story and I'm stickin to it, dammit! ~John PS- The story got mixed up somehow, because the incident I was speaking of happened on a residential street off of Los Padres in Santa Clara a few days ago, not in Redwood City. For those that don't know, Redwood City is a few cities away from Santa Clara. The only reason I know this is because they blocked off the whole area, and only a few newscasters were allowed in. I think though, that either the media got it mixed up somehow, or there were two similar incidents in one day. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:24:19 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Royce vs Sumo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I can > pretty much guarantee that if Royce faced Akebono in a Basho tournament, > Akebono would own him with no trouble. > Akebono didn't even know Ground and Pound. What exactly did he train for?? Athletes can adapt, that is why they are athletes. Rulon Gardner beat the Judoka Yoshida with Ground and Pound. That being said, Sambist Fedor would beat Royce or Akebono, or Gardner, or Yoshida. Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:36:29 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] CAS Iberia is selling Filipino swords... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just found out that a sword company called CAS Iberia is selling Filipino Swords... http://www.casiberia.com/cas_website/productsearch.asp?page=1&recs=10&searchte xt=filipino http://www.knifeoutlet.com/catalog/CAS_Iberia_Swords_and_Knives/ K. Williams --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Machete Attack To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:06:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I think there has been some misunderstanding, I didn't mean to state that they should've disarmed the machete guy, just the little asian woman with the veggie peeler (who was on prescription meds for a mental problem of some sort) whom SJPD killed. > Same thing, imho. The officer thought it was a knife and ordered her to drop it and to stop approaching him. She failed to follow his directions and continued to approach/attack. It is sad that she had to die, but the officer did exactly what he had to do as far as I can tell. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] John Montes and PO training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net True anecdote. At a FMA seminar in Daly City that I was teaching many years ago, two young Filipino participants talked to me and identified themselves as San Francisco PD rookies. They said they were attending the seminar because they were embarassed that they were Filipinos and cops and did not know FMA. I asked them what they learned in their baton training at the police academy. They said they learned two techniques--(1) use both hands and swing it like a baseball bat and pound the snot out of the guy (2) throw it at the feet of a fleeing suspect. Anybody familiar with what is taught at police academies (or any particular academy for that matter?) Jay de Leon John Montes wrote:machete dude too. But I DO believe that FMA would be one of the best things to teach PO's. That's my story and I'm stickin to it, dammit! ~John --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:30:31 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Charlie Foxtrot and the Knife Wielding Thugs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yikes, what an astounding series of video Crafty submitted. A charlie foxtrot from start to finish. Crafty asks: > For the exercise, test your powers as a witness. How many BG were > there? Thought I saw four in the melee, though they posed five perps when all was said and done. > How many LEOs? Who could count? Seemed to start off with a half dozen before more piled on. > What happened? LEOs attempting to arrest knife wielding thugs allowed events to spiral out of control. > What caused the LEO's death? He failed to watch his back, as did his partners, and so was stabbed in the back. He was ambulatory for quite some time after the wound, the stab appeared to land in the high left side of his back, so my guess is the bad guy nicked the sub-clavial or other artery and the LEO bled out internally. Though ballistic armor has to be specifically designed to resist knife penetration, the ease of the stab suggests no armor was worn. > WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? IMO this is why God invented shotguns. 12 gauge 00 to the center of mass would have ended this fun toot sweet. > WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE? A perimeter established, the area cleared of civilians, and the bad guys killed or otherwise subdued one by one with overwhelming force. > WERE DISARMS POSSIBLE? I think that's the wrong question. They may have been possible, but they sure as hell weren't indicated. There is no reason for an LEO to risk the degree of exposure needed to initiate a disarm. > How well prepared do you feel by your training for this scenario? IMO only SWAT team members or members of elite military units that have trained for urban warfare can claim they have the requisite experience. Anyone who hasn't trained small unit tactics live fire amid friendlies with attacks possible on a 360 degree axis hasn't trained for this scenario. > Then share your experiences and observations from the exercise here. Two observations. First the video quality of the action was not that good, and much of what occurred was occluded so perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see anything that looked like pepper spray being used. Though the bad guys were so clearly over the top that I don't think pepper spray or similar agents would have ended things, I think they could have kept the perps busy long enough to get a handle on the situation. Second, the only firearms I saw were pistols and a sub-machine gun (SMG), all most likely chambered in 9mm. SMGs are often loaded with full metal jacket, also known as ball, ammo because it tends to feed better through a quickly cycling weapon. Some police forces also use FMJ in their pistols, mostly to avoid controversy over the use of more effective and appropriate hollow point bullets. Bottom line is it seemed to me the LEOs had the wrong tools to get the job done. An SMG spraying ball could have brought down a bad guy, but even if all rounds hit a perp FMJs often pass right through their targets, heading merrily on toward bystanders. If the pistols were also loaded with 9mm ball the same problem stands. In short the wrong tools plus bad tactics equals a charlie foxtrot for sure. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] John Montes and PO training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:06:41 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Anybody familiar with what is taught at police academies (or any particular > academy for that matter?) Check out the Monadnock PR-24 Training Program and/or training manual. For one, a red/yellow/green color code scheme is used to indicate red/stop, yellow/caution, green/go targets on the body. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:25:28 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Heart-stopping moments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "An interesting article about Taser safety. An interesting note in the later half of the article "Some medical experts believe Taser shocks may exacerbate a risk of heart failure in cases where people are agitated, under the influence of drugs or have underlying health problems. Human rights advocates want law enforcement to stop using Tasers until scientific evidence can show they don't kill. " I have a question (and I *honestly* don't want to sound like a smart ass) what do the Human Rights Activists want to police to use instead? " I think *all* of the medical experts will agree that if you pass electricity through the body there is a chance of the heart stopping pumping in one way or another. The chance is greater if the heart is made irritable by endogenous adrenaline, drugs or disease. What I never understood is why the Taser etc. has been touted as "non-lethal" option. This somehow implies a guarantee that the object of the Taser discharge will not die. Hell, if one hits another in the chest with one's fist just at the right moment the recipient of the blow can die! A slight pressure on the neck will stop the heart in many sensitive individuals. There are no guarantees of "non-death". Perhaps it is a simple issue of educating public: If I hit you with the Glock, the chances of dying are 90%. If I hit you with the Tazer, 5%. Your choice. Either way, a soft pillow is not an option is you threaten me with a large sharp object. My other concern is that the Tasers are now available and used in situations where they may represent excessive force by untrained personnel - airline staff? But I have only sketchy information on that. Anyone else? Michael Koblic Campbell River, BC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest