Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:16:56 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #15 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Controversial arnis duel (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 2. OBSERVATIONS... (Clint Cayson) 3. Re: Observations from the Philippines (Ray White) 4. Re: Observations from the Philippines (Jared Dame) 5. FMA in Mexico (swolk@mho.com) 6. Why TKD and not FMA (Leo Salinel) 7. Re: Controversial arnis duel (Ray Terry) 8. Re: OBSERVATIONS... (Steve Ames) 9. "latiko" "latigo" etc... (rob mulligan) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Controversial arnis duel Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:28:38 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > Sent: 11 January, 2005 23:25 > To: Eskrima > Subject: [Eskrima] Controversial arnis duel > > > Tom intervenes, bans controversial arnis duel by Gabby Malagar > The Freeman, Cebu > January 12, 2005 > > Go on with the duel or face arrest. Funny, this would imply that he was urging them to fight... Unless it should have been "...AND face arrest". Maybe it's a typo. - Marko --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:37:53 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] OBSERVATIONS... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sir, Good observations. Not only Philippines have "colonial mentality" some other countries too. But being colonized for hundreds of years the people has to struggle what is the best way of living. I agree that other systems of Martial Arts have been dominating the Islands for years because the people think its neat and "cool" or "hip" or maybe a "fashion". FMA is a small portion of that. if you take up TKD, Kung Fu, or Karate people would say - "that's great!". If you say, I'm taking Filipino Martial Arts and people would say, FMA? do we have Martial Arts? I think - Hollywood plays a lot of things to the world. Take example for an action movies - KMA, CMA and JMA are being introduced over and over all the time. Some of the people in the Islands think that it's a great advantage to learn one of those Martial Arts. If somehow the parents would reintroduce the culture and heritage it wouldn't be hard for the next generation to understand the values they have stored for them in the future. Because I am to my children. Good luck on your training there in the Philippines. Clint "When you paint a dragon, you paint his scales, not his bones; when you see a man, you see his face, not his heart." ----Confucius (Lun Yu)--- -----Original Message----- From: Sid Stein [mailto:eskrimajew@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:02 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Observations from the Philippines Being on my first trip to the Philippines, I though I would share some observations. FMA does not seem all that popular here. It seems that Tae Kwon Do is more popular in the martial arts world, and basketball and hip-hop being more popular within the general population. This could be due to "colonial mentality" and also that FMA is a traditional Filipino art. So it is possilbe to find FMA but you really need to look. I managed to get down to Batangas province, and pick up some balisongs and a bolo. And I am getting some training in with some of the instructors. Sid Stein Defensor Method, Chicago (Temporarily on Mindoro island) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:44:53 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Ray White To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Observations from the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I find the lementing of the lack of the general populous training in their local arts interesting. How many of us westerners have had childhood exposure to western combatives like wrestling and boxing, only to pass them up for things more exciting like FMA? I here Western Boxing and Wrestling is exotic and popular in Asia. Of course TKD seems to be the most prolific art in the world. But I believe it has to do with the standardization of material, and an early interest to share it when the other arts were still being secretive. The sad part is the knowledge and experience that has been lost over the years because it wasn't shared. Ray W ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:19:32 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Observations from the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am at an impasse with how to go about the upbringing and martial training of my daughter. She has expressed interest in my fanatic approach to the martial arts (classes, seminars, basement workouts etc….) and I have been able to teach her some rudimentary basics, however because of her age I spend more time trying to keep her focused on the task at hand than I do instructing. So she want to go a place and learn martial arts where she can wear the gi, kimono, uniform with other children her age. I have no problems doing this I am just fearful that she will be brought up in a hard style like I was and then have issues moving more towards a practical martial art (my hopes are that she take up FMA/JKD like her old man ; > ) Does anyone have any recommendations of how to pursue this? I have setup times to visit the local Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, and San Soo schools to talk about their curriculum and determine how many children are present. (Hoping that the San Soo works out as it is more close to my native Wing Chun which is part of my background.) Any suggestions are welcome. Salamat and Namaste Jared On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:18:13 -0500, nephalim1@netscape.net wrote: > I agree. I took up Karate after having seen hollywood martial arts. I wanted to be "just like Mike". The hollywood stigma is so strong Filipino celebrities rush to imitate western ideas. Two good examples are Eddie Katindig(jazz musician) and Jackie Lou Blanco(actress). Now known respectively(?) as Eddie K (imitating Kenny G) and J Lou (you gessed it, J Lo)imitating Jennifer Lopez. Yes, it is colonial mentality. Hopefully we all learn from it and embrace the beauty of one's own culture before someone else's. > wrote: > > >I think a lot of it has to do with what Pak Herman Suwanda said about > >Indonesia. > > > >Paraphrasing, of course, since I can't recall Pak's precise words :-) "TKD > >and similar arts are much more popular in Indonesia than Silat because they > >look pretty. If you're a parent and you want to get your kids into training > >where are you going to send them? Are you going to send them to the local > >guru who trains in a ratty old sarong and rolls around in the dirt or are > >you going to send them to TKD where they get a nice white gi and line up in > >neat rows and stay relatively clean while they train?" > > > >I would assume that this is also the case in the PI. > > > >Also, there's an aspect of human nature that makes us overlook what's right > >in front of us because it seems more mundane than something foreign. My wife > >and I were in WV once visiting some of my relatives. When we left my uncle's > >house, my aunt asked which route we were taking to our next destination. > >When we told her she said, "Oh. That's a kind of boring route." For us, it > >was a very interesting route - passed through quite a few lovely areas and > >some regions that had great overlooks. It was very scenic. But not to my > >aunt who grew up in the area :-) > > > >Mike > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Sid Stein [mailto:eskrimajew@yahoo.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:02 AM > >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Subject: [Eskrima] Observations from the Philippines > > > >Being on my first trip to the philippines, I though I would share some > >observations. > > > >FMA does not seem all that popular here. It seems that Tae Kwon Do is more > >popular in the martial arts world, and basketball and hip-hop being more > >popular within the general population. > > > >This could be due to "colonial mentality" and also that FMA is a traditional > >Filipino art. > > > >So it is possilbe to find FMA but you really need to look. > > > >I managed to get down to Batangas province, and pick up some balisongs and a > >bolo. > > > >And I am getting some training in with some of the instructors. > > > >Sid Stein > >Defensor Method, Chicago > >(Temporarily on Mindoro island) > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > >_______________________________________________ > >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > >_______________________________________________ > >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "Things come those that wait, but only the leftovers from those that rushed." President Lincoln --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:26:29 -0700 (MST) From: swolk@mho.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Mexico Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For information of FMA in Mexico, try contacting Carlos Hidalgo at: chidalgor@hotmail.com Regards, Steve Wolk --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Why TKD and not FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The same reasons for Silat not being popular in Indonesia vis-a-vis Taekwondo, etc. also apply to the Philippine setting. Taekwondo and Brazilian Jujitsu have 'clean', 'cooler' images since they are practiced by upper middle class folks in airconditioned snazzy dojos and gyms in malls or country clubs. If you were a parent, why would you send your kids to an old man living in an inner-city ghetto of Manila where he's most likely to get stabbed or robbed or mugged for thrills, just to learn FMA? FMA is esoteric here in the Philippines. Sid Stein is correct in saying that basketball and hip-hop are more endemic hobbies for Filipino kids. Alarmingly, more and more Pinoy kids don't even know that FMA exists. You ask, "Do you know arnis/eskrima?" They reply, "What's that?" ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Controversial arnis duel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:58:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Go on with the duel or face arrest. > > Funny, this would imply that he was urging them to fight... > Unless it should have been "...AND face arrest". Maybe it's a typo. Yes, I thought the same thing, too. Had to check the news report twice, but that is the way it was worded. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] OBSERVATIONS... Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:00:02 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The US suffers from this syndrom as well. Marketing still associates "European" with "Sophisticated" and people buy into it (European style coffee makers being the most recent I've seen... but certainly fashion and automobiles also are affected). I'm not dissing Europe at all, just the slant US Markerting people put on the word (even if the products their hawking have nothing to do with Europe... heh). In the TMA world everyone knows an Asian master knows more than the white guy. -Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Cayson" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: [Eskrima] OBSERVATIONS... > Sir, > > Good observations. Not only Philippines have "colonial mentality" some other > countries too. But being colonized for hundreds of years the people has to > struggle what is the best way of living. I agree that other systems of > Martial Arts have been dominating the Islands for years because the people > think its neat and "cool" or "hip" or maybe a "fashion". FMA is a small > portion of that. if you take up TKD, Kung Fu, or Karate people would say - > "that's great!". If you say, I'm taking Filipino Martial Arts and people > would say, FMA? do we have Martial Arts? I think - Hollywood plays a lot of > things to the world. Take example for an action movies - KMA, CMA and JMA are > being introduced over and over all the time. Some of the people in the > Islands think that it's a great advantage to learn one of those Martial Arts. > If somehow the parents would reintroduce the culture and heritage it wouldn't > be hard for the next generation to understand the values they have stored for > them in the future. Because I am to my children. > > Good luck on your training there in the Philippines. > > > Clint > > "When you paint a dragon, you paint his scales, not his bones; > when you see a man, you see his face, not his heart." > ----Confucius (Lun Yu)--- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sid Stein [mailto:eskrimajew@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:02 AM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Observations from the Philippines > > Being on my first trip to the Philippines, I though I would share some > observations. > > FMA does not seem all that popular here. It seems that Tae Kwon Do is more > popular in the martial arts world, and basketball and hip-hop being more > popular within the general population. > > This could be due to "colonial mentality" and also that FMA is a traditional > Filipino art. > > So it is possilbe to find FMA but you really need to look. > > I managed to get down to Batangas province, and pick up some balisongs and a > bolo. > > And I am getting some training in with some of the instructors. > > Sid Stein > Defensor Method, Chicago > (Temporarily on Mindoro island) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:05:11 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] "latiko" "latigo" etc... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Myron Wieneke suggested that “latiko” was actually spelled ”latigo”. The way I understand it, most Filipinos pronounce it and spell it with the “k”, instead of the Spanish “g”. PG Marinas is from Nueva Ecija, he says it and spells it like that, and my student Jose is from Pampanga and he does the same. I teach at a Philippine youth center, so i'll have to ask the language instructor there. I’m just an old white “’cano”, so I can’t swear to it firsthand. Whatever… When Jose went back last year he found that the calesa’s were mostly replaced by taxi’s and motor bike taxi’s, that’s why he had such a hard time finding new latiko’s. (he did bring me back some real purty balisongs…uh-oh…“balisong”, “balisung” etc… now that’s whole ‘nuther can of worms) Several people have suggested whip sources, like davidmorgan.com, but they have mostly American style horsewhips, not like those of the calesa drivers, which are rattan handled and stiff through about 2/3 to ¾ of their length with a very tight tapered wind and evenly spaced knots woven into the flexible end. They are immensely more controllable than American style whips; nearly as good as a stick. Those are the ones that Jose had difficulty finding. That’s why he decided to teach himself how to make them. If anyone knows a good source for those latiko’s, we would appreciate it, even if it’s just to dissect them. Thanks… Rob Mulligan www.kwikstik.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest