Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:36:55 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #32 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: hello brothers and sisters! i need information! (Wieneke, Myron) 2. Re: FMA in Mexico (RAUL acevedo) 3. Re: hello brothers and sisters! i need information! (Ray Terry) 4. ipat sig line (Bormann, Noel) 5. Re: Info on a school (Andrew Maddox) 6. INFO ON SOMETHING...UNUSUAL (Clint Cayson) 7. RE: Thanks to the Dog Brothers! (Ricky Guro) 8. Re: i need information - arnis v eskrima (Bart Hubbard) 9. Re: Thanks to the Dog Brothers! (Larry St. Clair) 10. RE: Info on a school (Mike Casto) 11. Re: ipat sig line (iPat) 12. Tenio Decuerdas (Ray Terry) 13. RE: Thanks to the Dog Brothers! (Leo Daher) 14. Re: Tenio Decuerdas (Jared Dame) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Wieneke, Myron" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] hello brothers and sisters! i need information! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:10:34 -0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There are two stick techniques used in most/all Kali/Arnis/Eskrima systems, the stick technique that is used for training for sword fighting and the stick techniques use for stick fighting. My understanding of it is that the "old" way of referencing the nuances between the two styles is the training for stick fighting is more akin to Arnis and the training for sword fighting is for Eskrima. So the example I used where I said abaniko was an arnis strike was based on this. It does not mean that the different systems that call themselves Eskrima don't have abaniko strikes, if they do both types of training then its expected that they would have abaniko or other "stick techniques". I'm sure this is a confusing topic so feel free to discuss =-) Regards, Myron -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:47 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] hello brothers and sisters! i need information! > With regards to arnis and eskrima, actually there are differences between the > two. The art of eskrima emphasizes bladed weapon movements even when using a > stick. In other words the style "assumes" that your weapon has an edge on it > and so the strikes are always based on this "blade side edge". One counter example is Doce Pares Eskrima. More stick oriented than blade. I'm sure there are more. > Arnis is very > similar but there are more things that you can do with a style that is more > honed for a non-edged weapon (though arnis still does emphasize that you be > conscious of where the blade-edge would have been). Eg. abaniko (fan) is an > arnis strike, not an eskrima strike. Abaniko is very much a part of eskrima. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ============================================================================== This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network. Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure. ============================================================================== --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:20:36 -0600 (CST) From: RAUL acevedo Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA in Mexico To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net in oaxaca you can buy some knives in some armerias they are hand craft and if you are luky maibe found one cuchillero master in fabrication of knives in the city of oaxaca have a nice travel arround mexico if you nead help for something please contact me att raul acevedo --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Net: La mejor conexión a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] hello brothers and sisters! i need information! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:25:13 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I remember a seminar where Guru Bustillio told a story where the blade style > you speak of was used until a legend in the art( i cannot recall his name) > realized that it was useless to use this style of fighting with a stick > because it limits the potential of the fighters strikes and so re-built the > system to different strikes when using a stick as compared to a blade. He was probably talking about Cacoy Canete. Cacoy frequently uses the term 'old style' when referring to short sword oriented styles. But he can also demo very convincingly that these stick strikes are very useful when you have a blade/sword in hand. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:44:09 -0800 From: "Bormann, Noel" To: Subject: [Eskrima] ipat sig line Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net iPat, Can you give me a source for the sigline you use? I like it... "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." thanks, Noel Spokane, WA --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:46:06 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Info on a school Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Referring to this guy: > http://www.ninjutsu.com/shihan-van-donk.shtml I found it interesting that he's a 15th dan in Ninjutsu - I thought those ranks only went to 10? Er, I mean "but these go to eleven" ;-) And then, down the page, this bit (besides showing that the site needs a little updating, note the dates) turned on my Bob & Doug alarm: " Due to his tremendous amount of worldwide research Master Van Donk is considered a Philosopher by many. He has taken the best from all these sacred civilizations and teachers and formulated an Enlightenment processes called 'Sourcing' which he has taught worldwide. His core teaching are embodied in Uni-DynamicsTM "The science of being One". Richard initiated a World Peace 2000 Breath of Peace at the start of the new millennium. He is now helping organize the World Peace Project IV with the Dali Lama and other spiritual leaders to be held in 2002. " "koo-LOO-coo-coo-coo-KOO-coo-coo! koo-LOO-coo-coo-coo-KOO-coo-coo!" (apologies to those too young for SCTV, or those who never had the chance to see it to get the reference) As for the names, well, I've heard of people getting new names from their swami/guru/etc in some spiritual traditions once they're deemed by that teacher to have acheived some notable level of understanding, so "Spiritual Name: Ananda" isn't so weird in context. But, c'mon: "Warrior names: Kofukuryu (Happy Dragon), Mr. Happy & Yee Ha"? I mean, um, I think I'll just leave that to speak for itself. Not overly burdened with humility, is he? or connections to the reality-based world, I'm a-guessin'... IMHO, YMMV, etc. Anyway, laters! ND -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net DC-area martial artist? Check us out and join us at http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DCMartialArts/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:50:51 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] INFO ON SOMETHING...UNUSUAL Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Something of the track question: Few days ago, I went to my friends house for some get together with my daughter. After few things made, my daughter and my friend's daughter were playing video games. Title of the game? SOULCALIBUR II! There was a certain fighter that really caught my attention. The name is "Cervantes" dressed on Spanish Conquistador. I was watching them play and this fighter is using double-edged sword on both hands and fought with the (almost) same system as an Eskrimador. To make it short, anyone knows who is/was the real fighter of that character? Because I believe that the main subject/person of that character is a real Eskrima expert. There is also a word "kali" being used in the game. Just need an info... Thanks. Clint V. Cayson(tm) Boca Raton Resort & Club 501 E Camino Real Boca Raton, FL 33431 561.447.3204 | 561.869.7784 fax [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ricky Guro" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Thanks to the Dog Brothers! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:57:35 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net congratulations!!! good job!!! Ricky Ganan Guro Jr. >From: "Alvis W. Solis" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [Eskrima] Thanks to the Dog Brothers! >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:26:55 -0600 > >Woof! > >On Saturday, I received my Black Belt in Machado Jiu-Jitsu from Carlos >Machado. I wanted to just say thanks to the Dog Brothers for introducing >me to Carlos and his Brothers. Thanks Marc, Eric, and Arlan! > >Alvis W. Solis >Solis Martial Arts Academy >www.solismartialarts.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: Bart Hubbard To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: i need information - arnis v eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, There's been a lot of discussion about this before, but it's always good in my opinion to revisit it now and then for fresh persectives. Among different styles these words have different meanings. In keeping with what others have said, in general, they mean the same thing: "a weapon based art originating in the Philippines." Also, generally neither arnis or eskrima indicates whether the style is more of a stick or a blade art. Depending on the style (Doce Pares, Sayoc, Bahala Na, etc.) these particular terms have particular meaning. But in general they mean the same thing. Imagining the stick as a blade is good for training the delivery of power in linear blows. The same training boon can be gained from imagining the stick as a hammer. Each visualization technique allows the person to train delivery of power with full support of the body. That attribute is useful for either bladed or blunt weaponry and IMHO isn't necessarily indicative of a specialization in either one. ===== Be Cool. Bart Hubbard Capital Doce Pares www.capitaldocepares.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Larry St. Clair" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:13:04 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Thanks to the Dog Brothers! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Alvis, Congrats on this great moment Alvis! I hope you, your family and school are doing well. Cya sweatin, Larry --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Info on a school Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:02:52 -0500 Organization: I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy of Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No, actually, Bujinkan Ninjutsu goes to 15th. Whether Van Donk is a 15th or not, though, I don't know. I've heard his name but nothing more - not even any kind of positive or negative. If he's a legitimate 15th Dan in Bujinkan, though, he's got to have some pretty phenomenal skill/ability. You should be able to ask around in Bujinkan circles and find out if he's legitimate - at least from the Bujinkan perspective. If he's not legit there then it's almost guaranteed that he's not legit in his other claims. If he is legit in the Bujinkan claim then he might be legit in his others. Don't know. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Maddox [mailto:madsox@Radix.Net] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:46 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Info on a school Referring to this guy: > http://www.ninjutsu.com/shihan-van-donk.shtml I found it interesting that he's a 15th dan in Ninjutsu - I thought those ranks only went to 10? Er, I mean "but these go to eleven" ;-) And then, down the page, this bit (besides showing that the site needs a little updating, note the dates) turned on my Bob & Doug alarm: " Due to his tremendous amount of worldwide research Master Van Donk is considered a Philosopher by many. He has taken the best from all these sacred civilizations and teachers and formulated an Enlightenment processes called 'Sourcing' which he has taught worldwide. His core teaching are embodied in Uni-DynamicsTM "The science of being One". Richard initiated a World Peace 2000 Breath of Peace at the start of the new millennium. He is now helping organize the World Peace Project IV with the Dali Lama and other spiritual leaders to be held in 2002. " "koo-LOO-coo-coo-coo-KOO-coo-coo! koo-LOO-coo-coo-coo-KOO-coo-coo!" (apologies to those too young for SCTV, or those who never had the chance to see it to get the reference) As for the names, well, I've heard of people getting new names from their swami/guru/etc in some spiritual traditions once they're deemed by that teacher to have acheived some notable level of understanding, so "Spiritual Name: Ananda" isn't so weird in context. But, c'mon: "Warrior names: Kofukuryu (Happy Dragon), Mr. Happy & Yee Ha"? I mean, um, I think I'll just leave that to speak for itself. Not overly burdened with humility, is he? or connections to the reality-based world, I'm a-guessin'... IMHO, YMMV, etc. Anyway, laters! ND -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net DC-area martial artist? Check us out and join us at http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DCMartialArts/ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:45:34 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] ipat sig line Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Suer Noel Krishnamurti is the source. A search will bring you numerous sites concerning his words. On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:44:09 -0800, Bormann, Noel wrote: > iPat, > > Can you give me a source for the sigline you use? I like it... PatDavies www.amag.org.uk -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Tenio Decuerdas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As for Master Dick Van Donk, from what I understand he did study under Gm Tenio, probably both Judo/Jujutsu and Tenio Decuerdas. Tenio was as well known for Judo as he was for Eskrima. John Eliab was supposed to inherit Tenio Decuerdas, but he passed away unexpectedly. The art was then to go to Gilbert's son Richard, but I'm not sure how interested Richard was in continuing to push the art. However I believe Richard is the recognized inheritor of the art. Someone please correct me if this is false. I have a video of Gilbert Tenio teaching Decuerdas with his son Richard that was taken shortly before Gilbert's death (1918-1994). It was filmed at Van Donk's dojo in Santa Cruz. Other Tenio Decuerdas major players are Dentoy Revillar, Wayne Caseria, and others I'm sure... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Thanks to the Dog Brothers! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:03:25 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Congrats! That's quite an achievement. "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Alvis W. Solis" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [Eskrima] Thanks to the Dog Brothers! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:26:55 -0600 Woof! On Saturday, I received my Black Belt in Machado Jiu-Jitsu from Carlos Machado. I wanted to just say thanks to the Dog Brothers for introducing me to Carlos and his Brothers. Thanks Marc, Eric, and Arlan! Alvis W. Solis Solis Martial Arts Academy www.solismartialarts.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:06:25 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tenio Decuerdas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks for clearing that one up....with no offense intended to Van Donk anyone that pushes video training with the ability to belt in the art seems fishy to me. salamat On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:45:23 -0800 (PST), Ray Terry wrote: > As for Master Dick Van Donk, from what I understand he did study under > Gm Tenio, probably both Judo/Jujutsu and Tenio Decuerdas. Tenio was as well > known for Judo as he was for Eskrima. > > John Eliab was supposed to inherit Tenio Decuerdas, but he passed away > unexpectedly. The art was then to go to Gilbert's son Richard, but I'm > not sure how interested Richard was in continuing to push the art. However > I believe Richard is the recognized inheritor of the art. Someone please > correct me if this is false. > > I have a video of Gilbert Tenio teaching Decuerdas with his son Richard that > was taken shortly before Gilbert's death (1918-1994). It was filmed at Van > Donk's dojo in Santa Cruz. > > Other Tenio Decuerdas major players are Dentoy Revillar, Wayne Caseria, > and others I'm sure... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." Rene Descartes --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest