Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:59:01 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #47 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2000 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Who founded Judo (Todd Ellner) 2. Re: Further BB rambling... (Nat Nickele) 3. Awards (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Help a beginner? (Jared Dame) 5. Re: Help a Beginner (Joseph Artigas) 6. Re: Help a Beginner & Blasting Birdies (Buz Grover) 7. RE: Help a beginner? (abreton@juno.com) 8. Help a beginner? (Magtutudlo) 9. Re: Karate, Ju Jitsu & Eskrima (Stick & Knife) tournament in Campbell, CA (jay de leon) 10. Re: Help a beginner? (George Mason) 11. Origins of the Martial Arts - Who Knows? (Peter Gow) 12. Gilgamesh (Peter Gow) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:43:47 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Who founded Judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Barry writes: >This is true, but if you ask "who invented or founded a specific style of >wrestling" the question would have a specific anwser.Just like with Judo.It >had a specific founder from which it originates. >Kano was also the founder of Escrima/Kali/Arnis..............Just kidding. I wrote: >>People have always wrestled. It's one of the things that people just _do_. >>The Sumerians wrestled. The Chinese, Greeks, Hebrews, Polynesians and Inuit >>wrestled. If you want to ask who "invented" wrestling you'll have to go >>back to a primitive monkey millions of years ago. I was actually replying to a different tangent on this argument. Anyhow, there's no real argument here. Anyone who isn't pulling his "facts" out of his butt knows that Professor Kano invented Judo out of several styles of Jujitsu which he had studied. I don't see why people insist on bringing Tibet or China or Timbuktu into it. The Timbuktu part isn't a random thing. A certain sort of Afro-centrist will tell you that CMA, Karate and Judo were all invented in West Africa. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:15:10 -0700 From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Further BB rambling... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Brian Hamilton said: > How many times has "Joe Cocky" >asked if we have a black belt? I always say "Nope, my >pants have elastic." They look at me like I'm silly >and then walk off, problem solved :) > >I train because I find it fun and helps my growth as a >person. Anyone who trains with me figures out where >I'm at in skill *then corrects my form*. lol I hear ya, Brian. After something like 7-8 years of MA, I never tested for a belt. One day I showed up for class and my instructor gave me a black belt. He said the only reasons that he insisted on me having a belt is so I would be allowed to go to BB seminars, and if I ever wanted to teach, a BB is something universally recognized. In fact, people generally have to really pry to get my rank info from me. I usually just tell them that I have done MA on and off for 12-13 years. >Marko said: >To me, as a Finnish person that sounds odd, since in Finnish >"professori" (same as "professor" in English) is strictly an academic >title for one who has the office of professor (professorship/academic >chair) in a university or college. And "doctor" is definately >one who has the academic degree of a doctor. Even then the >title is not usually mentioned if it is not relevant to the >issue, for example, if some M.D. is teaching FMA he is not >referred to as "Dr. Whatever" when talking about his martial >arts career as that has nothing to do with his M.D. degree >or medical work. Here's one for you Marko: When I was teaching, I was doing so as P.E. and political science instructor at a university. All my students just called me Nat (being refered to as "Sensei", "Master", "tuhon", or the like, motivated me to kick you in the shins). Seeing as I was both teaching academics and MA in the same institution, I guess I missed my one legitimate opportunity to refer to myself as "Professor Nickele". DagNabit, I could have used the ego boost....... But seriously, I agree with you. I have always thought it was strange to use a foreign words for "teacher" and "punch", when not in that country. To me it seems like it brings the focus away from pragmatisim and onto tradition. That's fine if that is what floats your boat; use whatever belt system you want, use whatever langage you want. On the other hand (going back to my original point in my first post) I think it is irresponsible of teachers to give their students lofty titles, especially if it leads to the student having an unrealistic view of their ability. We live in a world were people have a preconcieved opinion and a general understanding of what a blackbelt is. While public opinion shouldn't be the deciding factor in creating a belt system, it bears to consider it. Using the academic model, who would respect an a person that brags about getting 6 "academic" degrees in 3 years? If it happens once, it's newsworthy (or an episode of "Dougie Houser"). If it happens with every student of that school, it's a deploma mill. People will lose respect for the school and the graduates of it. Not only that, but what if these graduates go on to take jobs where proficiency is necessary. They may truely believe that their mail order degree is just as good or better that some 4 year traditional institution, but they still are most likely headed for a severe reality check (or management, ala Dilbert). This is why acredited institutions don't suddenly inflate their degree programs far beyond what is considered the norm-- they do it over time like everyone else :) In case you all were wondering what my opinion was...;) -Nat PS Jon Jocobo, are still out in AZ? -N --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:15:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Awards Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TheFreeman.com Cebu Local News 3 to get posthumous awards on city's 68th Charter Day by Wenna A. Berondo February 3, 2005 The city will give awards to Cebuanos and companies who have made significant contributions to the city on the occasion of the 68th charter day celebration on February 24. [snip] Cebuano arnis champions Ciriaco "Canoy" Canete, Atty. Dionisio Canete and Bonifacio Uy are also among the recipients of the award. Osmena said he would also give recognition to the movie producers of Visayan films "Minsan Pa" and "Panaghoy sa Suba" for promoting the Visayan culture. Aside from these notable individuals, the mayor also said that FORGE, a non-government organization, University of San Jose Recoletos, City of Seattle and Philippine Nurses Association of Metropolitan Washington also deserve the award. The awards will be given to the recipients, and representatives of posthumous awardees, on February 24 at the city hall grounds. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:40:24 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Help a beginner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am 6'4 225. Music and dancing help. ( Not to mention practice, practice, practice) My guro had me draw with chalk a large triangle on the garage floor and then free form different stick and knife patterns while move roughly through the triangle. The idea was to have your hands doing things while you feet were moving and set that to music and you will see improvements. Sprinting drills also help your fast twitch muscles develop which might increase you dexterity. After getting hit enough times your body will acutally start to position itself just out of self preservation. Salamat, J On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:52:43 -0800 (PST), Ray Terry wrote: > > You see, I'm six foot eight & 290 lbs, and I'm having a hard time > > getting proper foot work, or using my greater range and weight > > effectively. Also, I'm having trouble guarding my legs right now. and > > they're really large targets. > > > > I can't formulate any specific questions, really, but if you have any > > exercises or tips you could give me I'd be really grateful. > > Adam, > > Welcome to the list! > > Have your tried practicing your footwork to music or with some sort of > beat going on in the background? That seems to help a lot of people start > to -feel- the rhythm, thereby improving their footwork. > > There is this old John Wayne movie, he is playing a crusty old Sarg in WW II. > This big young Private is having trouble getting his bayonet drill perfected > so Wayne puts a record on the record-player (anyone remember records? :) , > puts the rifle w/bayonet in the young fellow's hands and starts moving > to the beat of the music. Somewhat awkwardly I might add. Anyway, after > a short bit the fellow gets better and Wayne tells him to keep working on it. > > Find something with a heavy rhythmic beat and keep working on it. :) > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." Rene Descartes --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Artigas To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Help a Beginner Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Adam, I feel your pain brother. I to am not a small guy as the many people on the list that have met me can attest to. Although I am not quite as tall as you (6'2") most of my fellow FMAers are smaller and faster then me. As far as the leg shot thing I know of no easy way to get past it. I had to learn the hard way 7 years and several broken sticks later I finally have the awareness and reflexes necessary to avoid the leg shots most of the time. My suggestion to you is to have one of your fellow classmates throw continuous leg shots at you as you try to defend. Take your time observe the set up of the strike, the angle most often used, and the general timing and rythm of the strike. You will need to build your awareness to a level where you are aware of where your body is in relation to your opponent's weapons at all time. This will only come with time and practice. Until you have developed these abilities your best option would be to play at a slightly longer distance (larga preferably if your art allows) as the added distance will give you the precious added time to be able to react to the strike. Keep swinging and don't get discouraged. If all else fails make sure that if he gets your leg that he trades something dear for it ( I like the head). It's like my Manong always tells me "You can survive several shots to the leg, but your head tends to be a bit more sensitive." I wish you and all many happy days training in the FMA. peace and respect, Joseph Artigas Message: 10 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 07:38:52 -0800 From: "A. Van Meter" To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Help a beginner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey, Escrima list. This is my first post. I've been studying escrima since maybe ~september of last year, and it's my first art. I think I'm progressing at an okay rate, but I have a few problems and I was hoping that you all might be able to help. You see, I'm six foot eight & 290 lbs, and I'm having a hard time getting proper foot work, or using my greater range and weight effectively. Also, I'm having trouble guarding my legs right now. and they're really large targets. I can't formulate any specific questions, really, but if you have any exercises or tips you could give me I'd be really grateful. Thanks Adam --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:46:37 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Help a Beginner & Blasting Birdies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Adam writes: > I'm six foot eight & 290 lbs, and I'm having a hard time > getting proper foot work, or using my greater range and weight > effectively. Also, I'm having trouble guarding my legs right now. and > they're really large targets. Not sure I have the FMA pedigree to respond, and you do have some altitude and tonnage on me, but I have encountered problems similar to yours that I've dealt with a couple of ways. First, low-line kicks, particularly the teep (foot jab) help a lot. A lot of times smaller folks will use the fact you have to protect more acreage with the same stick they have as an excuse to beat on your knees. I find turning a target into a weapon mitigates that. Keep 'em busy high with your stick and kick 'em low. The second isn't something you want to try on the street as a beginner, but works pretty good when training with the same group of folks: figure out where their comfort zone is and then violate it whenever you can. If they like largo, crowd 'em; if they like to close, feed 'em teeps; if they like to stand, tangle 'em up and take 'em down; if they try to take you down, base out and smack 'em with the puno. Pretty soon people will be muttering about how you got better when all you've done is stop playing to their game. A proviso: your instructor is better positioned than an internet geek to point you the right direction. Before you start teeping folks and taking them to the ground you'll probably want to check with him. A couple folks have mentioned blasting birdies with slingshots; growing up I declared war on neighborhood starlings with a blowgun. Don't recall blowguns ever being mentioned on the ED, and I've no idea if they have a history within FMA. If you are into low tech projectile weapons, however, they are at the top of my list. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:50:32 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Help a beginner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Some of the answer will depend on your style of escrima. First I would ask your instructor for any drills s/he has to help your footwork. I do Pekiti Tirsia and, like most FMAs, we do a lot of angling. I've found in doing those drills (triangles and diamonds particularly) that it can be helpful to move your hips just a tiny bit before you thrust with your legs. My thinking goes along these lines: most of the time your legs have the task of holding you up. If you move your hips a little bit off your base just before moving your legs, they're no longer holding you up, and can therefore thrust more efficiently. That may be sacrilege to some people, but it's also how fencers learn to thrust: lean a little, then lunge. A few caveats: I wouldn't do that in a sparring session just yet. I would ingrain it through footwork drills like triangles and diamonds. Minimize the movement as much as possible, and recover to a good base. Second, that may not hold true for corto range. Pekiti has both Tirsia Largo and Tirsia Corto subsystems in it, and so the change in strategy (from largo to corto) occurs pretty automatically. Figure out how/if it works in your style. As for protecting the legs, you can practice footwork called 'riterada' or 'caballero' footwork. I think of that in Pekiti terms as footwork in the first set of seguidas. A short description: from a front stance (whatever your style uses), bring your front leg to the rear without changing the angle or orientation of your pelvis. You should get a sort of polymetric spring effect in your legs. As with learning any new activity, people new at it have a harder time stringing things together. So I imagine your body is working things out now like "strike 1 goes from point A to point B; then strike B goes from point C to point D". That makes a lot of steps to get from point A to point D. Unfortunately, the way to get there quicker is to keep on practicing until your body "gets" that it can go from A to D without stopping at B or C. I hope that makes sense. What you can do is interject leg defenses (or counter-offenses) into your regular striking practice. Pick one leg defense to work on. Do strike 1, then the leg defense, strike 2, then the leg defense, etc. until you've gone through your style's set of basic strikes. I hope all that helps. Andy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Magtutudlo" To: Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:20:32 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Help a beginner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Adam, Welcome! I listen to music and dance (not a good dancer, though) before I practice eskrima. There's a very nice music - I hope you heard it, the title is "I've got the power" - the group name is C&C Factory(?). I hope this helps. Respectfully, Bobby ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hey, Escrima list. This is my first post. > > I've been studying escrima since maybe ~september of last year, and > it's my first art. I think I'm progressing at an okay rate, but I have > a few problems and I was hoping that you all might be able to help. > > You see, I'm six foot eight & 290 lbs, and I'm having a hard time > getting proper foot work, or using my greater range and weight > effectively. Also, I'm having trouble guarding my legs right now. and > they're really large targets. > > I can't formulate any specific questions, really, but if you have any > exercises or tips you could give me I'd be really grateful. > > Thanks > > Adam --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:25:43 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Karate, Ju Jitsu & Eskrima (Stick & Knife) tournament in Campbell, CA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FWIW, I would like to put in a good word for this group sponsoring the tournament below. I knew Hans Ingrebretsen a good number of years while I had a dojo in San Jose, and he is a very capable, multi-talented martial artist and a good guy. We "guest instructed" at each other's dojo. They are affiliated with the Kilohana group, which include such greats as Wally Jay, the late Sig Kufferath, Jaime Abregana of Hawaii, Prof. James Muro, etc. Hans ran the San Jose Gasshuku (training camp) when I brought my students there. At that time, most of these guys trained with Mangisursuro Mike Inay, and a handful trained with me, including now guro Jeremiah Stanley (who posts here at ED), Matt Tryon and sempai Noah Harders. Jay de Leon GES wrote: Hi, For info about a Karate, Ju Jitsu & Eskrima (Stick & Knife) tournament in Campbell, CA go to http://www.shinbukandojo.com and click on the link for the rules and registration package for the March 19 tournament. GS _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2000 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:45:38 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Help a beginner? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Adam, Good to read your first post. Sounds like things are going well. I understand your problem with the footwork. I have a student that is a pro football player and he is a very large gentleman for sure. He weighs in around 300 lbs or so. For a big guy he is pretty quick on his feet. But I find that there have been some things that have made him a great deal faster. One thing that a lot of people fight with is that they have a hard time relaxing when they train. You see, a tense muscle can't move fast. A lot of larger guys deal with this issue mainly because they have been taught all of their lives that because of their size the should depend on their strength. It is just a natural thing for a larger person. I went through it a little in that I am 6'2 and weigh over 200 lbs. But once I learned to relax and depend on the natural whipping motion to develop power I got a lot faster. The best guy to learn about that kind of thing from is Joe Lewis. He is a big guy but unbelievably fast. He does a lot of seminars around the country and he has a lot of videos out. I have the whole Joe Lewis collection. A friend of mine bought it for me. My friend works out with Lewis now and then. He says that the guy is more than amazing. Oh, one other thing that might help and it may sound weird, but play basketball. I find that the footwork for basketball and that for FMA are very similar. After reading this post I may get a bunch of rebuttles but that is fine. That is the cool thing about this forum. Everyone is able to publish their ideas. And I feel that it helps the art grow. Best of luck to you Adam and I hope you stay in the art for many years to come. Geo the Bear ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:16 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Origins of the Martial Arts - Who Knows? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear George and Mike, I absolutely agree with both of you on your opinions of the origins of the fighting arts. Documentation is one thing but word of mouth and showing by example existed before any person chiseled out stone tablets or painted drawings on cave walls. Perhaps we will never know the absolute begininngs of any particular style only the recorded history of some. All the Best and Train Hard, Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:48:14 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Gilgamesh Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray it has been many years since I read the Epic of Gilgamesh so my memory is rusty but yes you are right wrestling is mentioned there and also sword, yes. Peter Gow Australia. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest