Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 03:04:47 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #86 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2100 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Punong Guro (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 2. Re: Socratic MA (Marc MacYoung) 3. Socratic methods (Ray) 4. Re: Socratic methods (Shawn Keren) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Punong Guro Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:53:59 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think it basically up to the system/teacher, since there is no formal hierarchy in th FMA. I guess it could be both, but it think people would generally undestand it (at least I would) as the chief instructor of the system. Other terms that I've seen used are tuhon, grand tuhon, mataas na guro (high instructor), maestro, master, grand master... There are more, since it's up to the grand master (or founder) of the system what he decides to call himself, it could be anything. - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext rich parsons [mailto:richparsonsjr@yahoo.com] > Sent: 04 March, 2005 21:55 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Punong Guro > > > Marko et al, > > So, someone who is the top instructor of a school > could use the term Punong Guro? > > Or is this more in the line of the top instructor of > the system? > > Curious. > > Thank you all for your replies. > > Rich > > Message: 4 > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Question regarding teacher > ranks > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:26:38 +0200 > From: > To: > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > The stem of the word is "puno", head, chief, > thus "punong guro" means "chief instructor/teacher" > or "head instructor/teacher". > > - Marko > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Jared Dame [mailto:jareddame@gmail.com] > > Sent: 26 February, 2005 20:47 > > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Subject: [Eskrima] Question regarding teacher ranks > > > > > > What does Punong mean? > > -- > > Jared Dame > > jareddame@gmail.com > > "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is > necessary that at > > least once in your life you doubt, as far as > possible, all things." > > Rene Descartes > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members > > > > > > __________________________________ > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:44:54 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Socratic MA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > All the people there besides us were bored! "Why > can't we just hit the pads? I just get taken down and > hit and I don't like it." Honest to god quote. That > person had no work ethic and therefor no techniques, > yet he viewed his being takewn down as our failure > even after discussion. We stopped doing this after > about 2-3 club sessions. > -Brian AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've had to deal with these types. I tell them that these concepts are critical and must be present in order for a move to be effective. They don't cover those bases and they get hit. Then they blame me because "it didn't work" First, it's called strategy and tactics. Second it's called meeting standards of effectiveness... ya schmuck! Unfortunately, many people think that all it takes is techniques and drills. They want it to ONLY be about banging sticks, how fast you are and all the tricks you know. This is very much like saying that all that is involved in painting is putting paint on the canvas. They want to believe that because they've done this drill or learned this advanced technique, they know how to fight. In the circles I run in we make a BIG distinction between skill sets and skill. You can have all kinds of skill sets, but you don't have skill until you know how to apply them appropriately for the situation. Unfortunately a lot of people think that just because they have a collection of skill sets, they have skill. These people also tend to be the ones who become the most perturbed when the difference is shown to them in the safety of a class/seminar. Suddenly what has worked for them countless other times in a similar situation, isn't working and they can't/don't/don't want to understand why. Instead of realizing that they would have been gutted like a fish in an actual confrontation -- and maybe they should start analyzing what went wrong with what they were doing -- they instead choose to pull back into the same routines that have brought them success in the very specific and controlled environment that they play. The problem is that it doesn't really work well outside those exact conditions -- even in another controlled environment -- mucho less what is going to happen in an actual shitstorm. Glad it works where you train, but to make it work outside that, you gotta look a little deeper. There are many parallels in MA training and teaching to the differences between boot camp and ROTC. There is a difference between a fighter and a teacher in the same way that there is a difference between a grunt and an officer. The problem is that a lot of people want the teaching to be oriented on the concerns of the grunts, "all that officer crap isn't what is important, knowing how to rock and roll is." What they don't realize is that without what the officer knows, they're toast. Granted a bad officer can get them killed, but more lives are saved than lost because of the deeper understanding of the officers. That's the problem with grunt training. Realistically, how often do you fight? Then why constantly train only to fight? How about the people who stay in the martial arts? Is that really about how good of a fighter you are? Or do you end up teaching? Even if you aren't a full time, bonafide, make your living at it instructor... how much of your time is spent teaching? Quite frankly on that level, you need to have a deeper understanding. It really is about more than just swinging a stick. But, how often does an instructor decide to pander to the "grunts" who only want it to be about banging sticks. And gawd help us all, but how many stick swingers grew up and figured that their grunt understanding is all there is to strategy and tactics? Hell, I've had people walk out of seminars because I wasn't telling them what they wanted to hear about "knife fighting" and/or because I wasn't impressed with their grunt version of martial arts. On the other hand, I've also dropped a large number of people using all that "intellectual nonsense" that they thought I nuts for talking about. Those who stood up and asked "how'd you do that?" ended up with a deeper understanding than those who figured it was just some kind of advanced trick that I was doing that they didn't recognize. M --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:13:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Socratic methods Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'd say the old way of teaching, some still teach this way, is Socratic in nature. The teacher would hit or disarm the student until they figured out how to block or counter. If they didn't counter the technique the first time or two the teacher would offer a hint, e.g. try using your shield-side forearm. If you still didn't get it they would give you more hints until you figured out how to counter the technique. The instructor -guided- the student to discover the counter, they didn't simply demo the counter at the get-go. The approach works with people that already have some skill, but imho doesn't work that well on those with little skill or little training (not necessarily the same). Of course the students are highly motivated to learn quickly as it tends to, at least slightly, reduce the amount of pain that one receives. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Shawn Keren" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Socratic methods Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:28:28 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My experience exactly, this works for people who are, at leased somewhat versed in the arts but doesn't seem to work as well for the great majority of those who are just starting out. Professor Dacascos does this same method of teaching as the students progress in WHKD and FCMA and those of us who are certified to teach under him are pushed to use this with our own students, when they are ready. (they don't always know when that is but the instructor should) Regards Shawn Keren The Drunken Bear ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > The approach works with people that already have some skill, but imho doesn't > work that well on those with little skill or little training (not necessarily > the same). Of course the students are highly motivated to learn quickly as > it tends to, at least slightly, reduce the amount of pain that one receives. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest