Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:43:20 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #95 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2100 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. FMA in Germany (John Oliver) 2. Re: Who was he (Beungood8@aol.com) 3. Re: Hmmmmmm (Beungood8@aol.com) 4. Re:Qualify this statement (Beungood8@aol.com) 5. Re: hurt (Beungood8@aol.com) 6. Re: cop aversion (Beungood8@aol.com) 7. Inayan Eskrima Gathering (Steve Klement) 8. Re: naivete (Beungood8@aol.com) 9. Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training (Marc MacYoung) 10. cops ground fighting (mark) 11. Lucy Liu on FMA (Clint Cayson) 12. Re: Re: cop aversion (Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical) 13. McDee Ranch (Ken McDonough) 14. Re: Socratic Holistic Grail (Steve Kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:32:27 -0800 (PST) From: John Oliver To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Germany Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all. I wanted to send a belated thank you to all who responded to my query about places to train around Frankfurt (Sweinfurt). Sorry this is so late coming. I was hospitalized shortly after sending my post and was just released today. One of the strongest viral syndromes I've ever had. I look forward to catching up on all the old posts. Thanks again. Guro John G. Oliver United States Wan Chuan Do Association "You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself." -----Galileo --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:12:44 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Who was he Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/13/2005 7:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: BTW, just so you know why I am a little cranky about this fantasy bullshit. I had a friend killed last week in the Chicago area. The guy was a phenomenal martial artist, knew an incredibly effective system, was a hell of a fighter, in top physical condition, the size of a bull moose, as competent on his feet as on the ground and just one tough assed piece of real-estate. All the things that the MA/reality based self-defense/grappling/ MMA/ combatives worlds hold up as the holy relics of "winning"...but he died. He landed in the middle of multiple opponents with weapons and instead of moving away he moved towards. Another friend carried his coffin Thursday and we spent two hours on the phone with him helping him handle the grief over our friend dying. These are the kinds of things that happen in my world, the one that all this training supposedly prepares you for... but somehow doesn't reach. So go ahead and tell me all about this training...I'm sure I'll be impressed. M -- __--__-- Who was he? Do any of us know him? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:14:05 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Hmmmmmm Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/13/2005 7:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Now, granted I am not Jackie Chan, but then again, I ain't exactly unknown either. When someone with just "a little bit of a name in the biz" contacts you, politely inquires and asks for a clarification on a point being attributed to you...well, except for him, I've always gotten responses. Silence makes me go "hmmmmmm" The above made me go Hmmmmmmm............ Jack --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:20:26 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Qualify this statement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/13/2005 7:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:28:19 -0800 ...lemme ask you a question; How often did he do it WITHOUT back up? It was a sting. That means there are cops hiding around the corner and in vans. You go in, get attacked, knowing the rest of your team is charging in the second you get attacked! That's like bullridin there boy, you just gotta hang on for eight seconds. How do you qualify this statement? Did you ever take part in a sting,raid or UC buy? Have details of the terrain? where back was emplaced? obstacles in the back-up's way? Murphy's law ? It's not "bullridin" It's real life,valorious Police work, not some game. Jack --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:26:26 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: hurt Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/13/2005 7:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Marc MacYoung" Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:17:28 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Eskrima Gathering Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ISI Bi-Annual Gathering - Join the entire ISI and IFE family for our 4th Gathering. Held this time in the Bay Area of California where Inayan Eskrima was born. The seminar is open for the beginner to advanced student of any Martial Art discipline. Subjects will cover all aspects of Inayan Eskrima in this four day training camp. Also, many festivities are planned outside of the regular scheduled training including a banquet dinner to enable everyone the opportunity to get to know each other as well as the ISI and IFE Instructors. Date: June 10th - 13th, 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Instructors: Masirib Guros Emanuel Hart, Steve Klement and Cory Hanosh as well as Guro Mike Klement, Katalungan Guro Brad Hill and several IFE Instructors Email Contact: hanosh@inayaneskrima.com Phone Contact: (530) 877-1625 Download Registration Form (PDF): http://www.inayaneskrima.com/Summer%20Camp%202005.pdf -- Steve Klement Inayan Masirib Guro www.inayaneskrima.com klement@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Systems International --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:33:39 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: naivete Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/13/2005 7:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:00:08 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray said >As for Guro Blade, it is actually kind of funny for me to >sit back and >watch the interaction. His last name >actually is "Blade", but no one ever >considers that as a possibility. Well I'll be buggered by a bear... I didn't know that. Mighta helped to mention that fact Mr. Blade. > Marc mentions ASLET and IPDTA. I'm not familiar with ipdta, The International Police Defense Tactics Association (http://hem.passagen.se/slavosipdta/ )isn't the Pelligrini group with a similar name. It's European, the European police have a more liberal approach to use of force. Still what I have taught over there is more deescalation and conflict management for officers. What I'm teaching these days is more like verbal judo with bad attitude -- for handling those charming individuals who would prefer to headbutt a cop instead of listening. > but I've been > a member of aslet since they were first founded. Mas Ayoob was my > sponsor. > A good group to support and participate, if you are so inclined. I quit renewing my ASLET membership when the politics became too thick. And when it became apparent that no matter how many training organizations I belonged to, I could not make greater headway into the market without a degree to explain why what the departments are insisting officers do often results in a degrading of officer safety. I took a cue from Grossman about addressing the psychological aspects instead of just tactics. > And, yes, one of the things we frequently joke > about is how many people out in MA-land claim to train Cops or Special > Forces > or SEALs or PJs or... Yep...I just have to wonder about is all these guys claiming to have taught special forces is how come they forgot about the Vunak clause? Thing is until now I have never focused entirely on the LEO market before. I've been pretty much a jack of all trades, which is why I am so widely known in many markets instead of just one. > If you ever get to train with him he is likely to > shake you up more. :) It's been known to happen... After all, as my critics are so fond of saying my technique isn't that good, but despite this, somehow I just manage to muddle along. M --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "mark" To: Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:40:44 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] cops ground fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am both a cop and an instructor for cops. It seems to me that there is sport ground fighting, ground work for subject control, and ground work for officer survival. In my agency we have an average age of 40+ and a pathetic fitness level, this limits the value of most sport training. The subject control work is guided more by politics and policy than by rational evaluations of effectiveness. If we are talking about multiple armed assailants, this is certainly an officer survival issue. In officer survivalon the ground or standing, the priority of weapons is service weapon, backup gun, baton, duty knife, o.c.spray, and finally empty hands. The primary role of empty hands work is to keep weapon retention and stay functional long enough to deploy real weapons. The majority of police ground training should be based on the use of firearms, baton , and knife from the ground. In short we deal with multiple attackers on the ground the same way we do standing up. WE SHOOT THEM ! Not much money to be made in this since it does not have a civilian application and even most cops would rather learn majic tricks from the great grandmaster.......... Mark Stuber --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: [Eskrima] Lucy Liu on FMA Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:18:11 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't like the movie either... the story line is vague and out of sync. However, I like to watch fight scenes though choreographed but it's a good reference. I was just wondering if all the fight scenes in movies could be used as a good exercise. Thanks. Clint ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "Shawn Keren" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Lucy Liu on FMA (Sorry, slightly OT) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:29:22 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net PLEASE don't tell me that they are going to make a sequel to that! That was one of the worst movies of all time, with fight scenes that were on a par for realism with the Charlies Angels movies. If you want to watch a good movie (fair plot, good fight and action scenes) that showcases women, check out So Close, directed by Cory Yuen. I apologize for getting off of the FMA topic here. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: cop aversion Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:40:10 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > First although the Hell's Angels > days are pretty much gone, most people still have a strong aversion to > hitting cops. I myself know several cops that work in and around Patterson NJ. and all of them have had all types of people at one time or another attack them. >From CFO's to crackheads. one even got hit repeatedly by a 70 year old woman's cane when caught shop lifting by him. Another was thrown across a store by a guy twice his size and it ended his career. Kenny --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] McDee Ranch Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just purchased some land down Texas way. Will be building a 30 x 50 shop for classic cars plus the workout area. Have the pads and boxing equipment, weights. Any other ideas for a nice workout gym. Lemme know. Bye Bye, K.McD... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Socratic Holistic Grail To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray. What is best for the student would be the bottom line. That's why I'm really not a fan of those who only "teach as I've been taught". That approach doesn't show a lot of sensitivity to the needs of the student. I've taught in a structured way and a completely tangential way...and both have yielded good results. Regards, Steve Kohn Ray wrote: > I've been following the Socratic teaching discussion and think a lot of > interesting points have been made. I've begun wondering, however, who > has time to teach using a method that requires a small group or, better > yet, one-on-one mentoring? Or perhaps more succinctly, who can afford > to teach this way? Gotta pay the bills somehow so if grasshopper/master > is the model then either the grasshopper is getting soaked or the > master has low overhead. I would agree. It is a 1-on-1 approach. But it seems 'back in the day' classes were less common, 1-on-1 was more common. Some may think I am in favor of this type of teaching. Not really. I find that learning via a more structured approach works best for me. fwtw... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest