Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:53:20 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #96 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2100 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Lucy Liu on FMA (Sorry, slightly OT) (Ron Balicki) 2. Re: Who was he (Marc MacYoung) 3. Re: Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training (WoodyTX) 4. Re:Qualify this statement (Marc MacYoung) 5. What's in a name? (Dale) 6. (no subject) (fistwind@att.net) 7. re: FMA in Germany (Magdainst@aol.com) 8. Mr. MacYoung (TenDigitTouch) 9. Re: Re: Who was he (Steve Kohn) 10. Re: Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training (Steve Kohn) 11. Re: Re: Who was he (Ray) 12. Re: Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ron Balicki" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Lucy Liu on FMA (Sorry, slightly OT) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:29:26 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Lucy used to train in my Kali and Jun Fan classes at the Inosanto Academy.  She also was in Damon Caro's classes.  I am not sure if she trained in anyone elses class.  She was at the Inosanto Academy for about 2 years.  She slowed down her training at the academy after she got on Ally McBeal. Ron Balicki --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:17:37 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Who was he Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Who was he? Do any of us know him? I don't know if anyone here knows him http://system-chicago.com/ Details are still scarce, but apparently it went knife to knife...which should really make everyone stop, step back and consider the reality of that kind of training. M --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:24:20 -0600 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jimmy Page was a mediocre guitarist, but he did OK, too. WoodyTX On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:00:08 -0800, Marc MacYoung wrote: > > If you ever get to train with him he is likely to > > shake you up more. :) > > It's been known to happen... > > After all, as my critics are so fond of saying my technique isn't that good, > but despite this, somehow I just manage to muddle along. > > M --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:31:35 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Qualify this statement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I said > ...lemme ask you a > question; How often did he do it WITHOUT back up? It was a sting. That > means > there are cops hiding around the corner and in vans. You go in, get > attacked, knowing the rest of your team is charging in the second you get > attacked! That's like bullridin there boy, you just gotta hang on for > eight > seconds. > Jack > How do you qualify this statement? Did you ever take part in a sting,raid > or > UC buy? Have details of the terrain? where back was emplaced? obstacles > in > the back-up's way? Murphy's law ? It's not "bullridin" It's real > life,valorious Police work, not some game. First off, I am not disparaging the profession of police work. Nor am I dismissing the courage or the danger inherient in this action. It is impressive. It is dangerous. And yes, that S.O.B. Murphy is aways waiting around the corner. But the raw fact is, that teamwork, equipment and back up is the mark of the professional. You do NOT go into situations alone, much less without safety measures/equipment. The lone ronin warrior defeating unbelievable odds is not only a myth, but among professionals the sign of a loose cannon. You and everyone else, increase your chances of survival by working as a team, using strategies, tactics and coordinated efforts. Which is what these operations were, otherwise the Brass would never have authorized them. Second, I have not only known other people who have, but I myself have survived multiple attacker scenarios -- including hitting the deck under those circumstances. Yes, it is possible to survive without major damage, but damage you WILL take. And, not matter how good you are, if you are unlucky enough to land in certain circumstances the damage will be major. But simply being tough enough to soak up some damage is not enough, to a man, each of those people who survived had an extra dose of ferocity, viciousness, speed, training, experience and for the lack of a better word, the killer instinct. Even among trained people they were an exception. They not only could attack with an incredible level of skill and effectiveness, but could do so faster and with more commitment than a majority of trained people. This brings me to my third point. That is a teaching rule I have: For the safety of the people you are training do NOT train them according to what YOU can do, you train them to what THEY can do. For example, I used to be extremely fast, in fact, much of my success came through me being faster and meaner than my opponents. However, training someone with slower reflexes to use the same strategies and techniques would be disasterous when that person found him/herself in a situation. Most people do not have what it takes to effectively get up from the ground, much less win against mulitiple assailants while there. Therefore, I must question anybody who claims that they teach a super-dooper system that will allow you to win in a situation that has, to the best of my estimation, a single person defeat rate of 99%. It is obvious that Messina was nasty, vicious, fast and bad enough to get away with what he did -- with back up -- but just because he can do it doesn't mean that you can. Or that he can teach any Tom, Dick or Susan to do it either -- even if they are trained to some degree. Just because someone claims to be able to teach you Michael Jordan's secrets of basketball, doesn't mean they will work for you -- unless you have Michael Jordan's reflexs, physical IQ and skills. M --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dale" To: Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:39:51 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] What's in a name? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> Why not a surgeon? Paging Dr. Blade... People always ask me about Guro Defensor. "What's his real name?" Hey, our local commissioner of revenue (Tax Man) is named Payne. We think the name fits the job. Guro Payne? Dr. Payne? Major Payne? See you in the sticks, Dale --__--__-- Message: 6 From: fistwind@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:22:08 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc MacYoung" > ....cops have a totally different goal than anyone else. Their job is to control and subdue a suspect WITHOUT hurting them >"I disagree with this statement. Police officers' job is to come home everynight safe to his family."< I disagree with you. A police officer's JOB is clearly defined in thier job description. It nowhere says "You must get home safely every night to your family". It can usually fall into the vagueness of "Uphold the law, maintain the peace". >"Beyond that it is to protect life and property enforce laws and serve justice."< Police Officers do NOT "Serve Justice" that's what a court does. That's the job of a judge and jury. >"Also the job is to control the situation and resolve the situation with the minimum amount of force necessary to effect arrest and control."< This is pretty much spot-on. But didn't Marc say this already? Now you are using his words as if YOU said them. >"You meet their force with a level above what they are resisting with. And I can speak for 99% of them when I say they could careless if they hurt them or not."< You cannot speak for 99% of them. You cannot speak for 20% of them. Unless you are speaking of someone other than AMERICAN cops. Because AMERICAN cops are under an enormous amount of pressure at thier jobs, and are constantly scrutinized by the public. They don't dare draw down on someone arbitrarily, if they strike a suspect you better believe they will have I.A. on thier ass so quick they'll think they were in a time warp, so I think they DO care if they hurt them or not!! Now, I'm not knocking the cops here. Before I critisize anybody, I like to look at what they do & ask myself if I could do it better. In this case, the answer is a "HELL NO" in neon letters. These people put up with more crap than the local sanitation department on Monday morning in Beirut. And there is no guarantee that when they punch in at 8:30, they'll be punching out at 5. The legal system has thier hands so horribly tied, they can't do thiert jobs efficiently without fear of suspension from the force, facing a D.A. with a vigilante jones, or even jail time. And cops are frequently subject to all three. For all thier power, it's often built on a fragile, legal house of cards. In Chris Petrilli's school, we often had various LEO training around us, and they are always interested in stick submissions & joint locks. I have also given LEO seminars for stick locking, disarms & low impact striking in Seattle. One thing I have discovered is that the public image of a cop with his baton out, cracking some guy in the skull is severely frowned upon by the Force, so they seek out alternative methods for submission of a violent suspect. They usually have to suffer more painful dings & hurts to pull these off, than if they could just whack them once really good. I watch "cops" on T.V., and I can pick out a dozen areas in each episode where I would have rammed my police-issue Glock in some crack dealer's mouth & unloaded like hell. Which would partially explain why I'm not a police officer. (The other being my problem of letting really hot women out of a speeding ticket). Marc, as for you, you might want to clarify what you are referring to as "fantasy bullshit". I have said this before, no matter what your take on MA/FMA/MMA/Windows XP is, somebody out there thinks you are strictly amateur hour. You bring up good points, but your "crankiness" comes across as "I know more'n you 'cause I been down that hellish road". Yeah, I been down it too, and it's not all bullshit. And my opinion is no less valid than yours. Baboy Bobbe Edmonds Edmonds Martial Arts Academy www.EMAA.us --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Magdainst@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:37:13 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: FMA in Germany Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You can hook with Bob Dubljanin (Sudost Asien Instiut) in Mannheim which is not too far away from the Frankfurt area. He is a branch of the Magda Institute and has a full time professional school. We also have branches in Idar-Oberstein and Bavaria. Contact Guro Bob at info@soai.de or phone 621-3066775. Good training Marco Magda Institute --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:53:29 -0800 (PST) From: TenDigitTouch To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. MacYoung Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. MacYoung, I am sorry for your loss. Regards, Ray Purdy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Who was he To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc, I've often wondered if teaching someone knife defense is almost (I did say almost) more dangerous than not teaching them any at all. What I mean to say is, is giving say, a 1 year knife student a false sense of security a good idea if running is his/her natural instinct? I just dont believe that most people ever really train knife defense in a realistic enough way (calm down everyone, I include myself in this assessment) to really deal with such a situation. I know you're gonna have a hell of a lot to say on this. So...please do. Regards, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA Marc MacYoung wrote: > Who was he? Do any of us know him? I don't know if anyone here knows him http://system-chicago.com/ Details are still scarce, but apparently it went knife to knife...which should really make everyone stop, step back and consider the reality of that kind of training. M _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:50:02 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kinda funny that his last name is actually "Blade"...but referring to himself in the third person is amazingly silly. It's tough to let that go. -Steve Kohn Ray wrote: Marc mentions ASLET and IPDTA. I'm not familiar with ipdta, but I've been a member of aslet since they were first founded. Mas Ayoob was my sponsor. A good group to support and participate, if you are so inclined. As for Guro Blade, it is actually kind of funny for me to sit back and watch the interaction. His last name actually is "Blade", but no one ever considers that as a possibility. I must admit that his help and direction, along with that of my friendly LEO training partners back east, have helped open a lot of doors for me in the LEO training area. And, yes, one of the things we frequently joke about is how many people out in MA-land claim to train Cops or Special Forces or SEALs or PJs or... Guro Blade is a old curmudgeon that likes to shake things up a bit whether with his screen name or comments to the list, and I don't think he'll mind me letting that slip. If you ever get to train with him he is likely to shake you up more. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Who was he To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:34:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I've often wondered if teaching someone knife defense is almost (I did say almost) more dangerous than not teaching them any at all. > > What I mean to say is, is giving say, a 1 year knife student a false sense of security a good idea if running is his/her natural instinct? I just dont believe that most people ever really train knife defense in a realistic enough way (calm down everyone, I include myself in this assessment) to really deal with such a situation. > My experience is that even after a little training people much better understand what can happen to them during a knife attack than they do the first day they walk in the door. One simple example, just look at the awarness that comes to a cop when they first see/experience the Tueller Drill. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Ground vs. cop vs. MMA vs. training To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:37:15 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ...but referring to himself in the third person is amazingly silly. It's > tough to let that go. If you haven't noticed already, we here are mostly a big collection of "different" people. If it weren't for the colorful folks here it would be a rather boring place to hangout. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest