Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:05:21 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #121 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2100 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje April 9th & 10th... (PSDTC@aol.com) 2. Re: Clothing (Nat Nickele) 3. custom knives in the PI (Joe Hironaka) 4. Re: Clothing (Andrew Maddox) 5. Re: clothing (Jen Killick) 6. RE: Re: clothing (Mike Casto) 7. The Secrets of Cabales Serrada Escrima (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: PSDTC@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:35:50 EST To: MA.News@psdtc.com Subject: [Eskrima] Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje April 9th & 10th... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje will be at the Practical Self Defense Training Center in Waterbury, Connecticut, Saturday & Sunday, April 9th & 10th, 2005 There are only a few days left to preregister. Call 203-596-9073 to pay by credit card or mail a check or money order to the address below. You will need to do this quick if you want to get the preregistered price. Go to _http://psdtc.com/Events/Leo_Gaje_seminar.htm_ (http://psdtc.com/Events/Leo_Gaje_seminar.htm) if you need more information. You will not want to miss seeing this Grand Master of Kali in action. He will be showing his ancient style of Pekiti Tirsia Kali that has been in his family for many generations. This man is the real deal! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 _info@psdtc.com_ (mailto:info@psdtc.com) _http://www.psdtc.com_ (http://www.psdtc.com/) --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:51:16 -0700 From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Clothing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net While some of you debate if one style of clothing works better than another to give someone the impression not to mess with you, you miss the obvious! Think of the mind games if the person was wearing NO CLOTHING! (Sorry, couldn't resist) When I was a teenager, I was chased off someone's property by a yelling running naked old man brandishing a towel. Scared the crap out of me! -Nat --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joe Hironaka" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:42:33 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] custom knives in the PI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will be traveling to Manilla in the near future. Can someone tell me some places for custom knives there? TIA Joe _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:56:13 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Clothing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical" >> WHat is a "LEO's" On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Shawn Keren wrote: >Law Enforcement Officers > Or it could be the very well-known master of Pekiti-Tirsia, Tuhon Leo Gaje. (titles may be wrong, I'm not a P-T guy) Or just people born from July 23 to August 22. Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) -- Andrew Maddox, madsox squiggle radix point net Are we done for the day, Sgt. Hulka? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Jen Killick" To: Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:29:04 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: clothing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Me to, I wear MMA gear etc, however I have binned all the gung ho tees, with people cutting each other up, along with slogans like "kill them all and let God sort them out" or "death from above". Each to his own but sometimes what we accept as being normal seems to indicate we are insane to people outside the FMA world. I once reported back on my mobile to a training partner how my student did in a cage fight, things like yeah he got a nice slam to mount and pounded him etc etc. Trouble was I was commuting on the train and after I hung up I realised everyone was looking at me....... > > Message: 1 > From: "Mike Casto" > To: > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Clothing > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:13:47 -0500 > Organization: I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy of Martial Arts > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I wear MA (FMA and otherwise) t-shirts regularly - mostly because the bulk > of t-shirts I own are of that type. I have had a few people ask me about > them but never in an aggressive way - just curious. Only once did I get a > guy who wanted to test me but even he wasn't aggressive; he just asked me > to > illustrated what I'd do in a "what if" scenario. I've never had any > trouble > with LEO while wearing them. > > But it may be a difference between the US & UK LEO. I don't know. But I've > worn that type of shirts in quite a few places around the US and never had > a > problem. I was probably wearing them when I was in the UK, too, but I was > only there for a few days a couple of years ago. > > Mike Sound point Michael and lets face it if you have to defend your self and the LEO's turn up, you do not want to be the one looking like a warrior, you want to be the guy who looks "normal" or regular guy. Especially if the other person has a dent in his head. > This is another good point: Why would you want to advertise the fact that > you are doing or associated with FMA? Surely you attract unwanted > attention > either by the LEOs or wannabes who want to find out how good you really > are. > And if it hits the fan, why would you want to give the other guy a > warning? > > Michael Koblic, > Campbell River, B. C. > _______________________________________________ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: clothing Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:30:29 -0500 Organization: I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy of Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net LOL. Yeah, I don't have any shirts with mottos like "Kill 'em all ..." All of mine are from specific schools or seminars so while some (like the Sayoc Kali shirt) do have illustrations of people fighting with blades, I've never, as I said, had any problems of any kind wearing them. Actually, if you look at it objectively, we *are* insane people ;-) As I told a guy once at a seminar, study of the MA is a form of sadomasochism. Think about it. Not only do we enjoy giving and receiving pain - we pay people to teach us to do it better and, eventually, get paid to teach others to do it better. I've had similar experiences on phone calls. I once had a student call and ask me a question about the targeting in a drill. So I was saying things like, "You want that shot to go to the clavicle. If you land it well and break the clavicle, his arm won't work well any more. ... No, that should be a thrust to the eye." The people eating dinner at the table next to me were giving me some pretty bizarre looks :-) IMPO, I'm just taking a business call. They eavesdrop at their own risk :-) Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jen Killick [mailto:jen@cleankill.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:29 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: clothing Me to, I wear MMA gear etc, however I have binned all the gung ho tees, with people cutting each other up, along with slogans like "kill them all and let God sort them out" or "death from above". Each to his own but sometimes what we accept as being normal seems to indicate we are insane to people outside the FMA world. I once reported back on my mobile to a training partner how my student did in a cage fight, things like yeah he got a nice slam to mount and pounded him etc etc. Trouble was I was commuting on the train and after I hung up I realised everyone was looking at me....... > > Message: 1 > From: "Mike Casto" > To: > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Clothing > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:13:47 -0500 > Organization: I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy of Martial Arts > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I wear MA (FMA and otherwise) t-shirts regularly - mostly because the bulk > of t-shirts I own are of that type. I have had a few people ask me about > them but never in an aggressive way - just curious. Only once did I get a > guy who wanted to test me but even he wasn't aggressive; he just asked me > to > illustrated what I'd do in a "what if" scenario. I've never had any > trouble > with LEO while wearing them. > > But it may be a difference between the US & UK LEO. I don't know. But I've > worn that type of shirts in quite a few places around the US and never had > a > problem. I was probably wearing them when I was in the UK, too, but I was > only there for a few days a couple of years ago. > > Mike Sound point Michael and lets face it if you have to defend your self and the LEO's turn up, you do not want to be the one looking like a warrior, you want to be the guy who looks "normal" or regular guy. Especially if the other person has a dent in his head. > This is another good point: Why would you want to advertise the fact that > you are doing or associated with FMA? Surely you attract unwanted > attention > either by the LEOs or wannabes who want to find out how good you really > are. > And if it hits the fan, why would you want to give the other guy a > warning? > > Michael Koblic, > Campbell River, B. C. > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2100 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:53:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] The Secrets of Cabales Serrada Escrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Interesting ??? customer reviews of Wiley's serrada book. Ray ----------------------------------------------- Customer Reviews Ignore negativity and get this book!, October 5, 2004 Reviewer: John "The Don" (Santa Clara, CA) This book is very helpful in that you get a deep understanding of the fascinating history of where the Cabales Serrada System comes from. You also get step-by-step outlines of many Serrada applications, which only gets better when you have a solid base knowledge of Escrima in general, and Serrada in particular. Mark Wiley brings Cabales Serrada into a new light with this book. The negative press? "Shine it"... you read the book for yourself, and you'll see for yourself! I myself study Serrada Escrima- actually mostly Inayan, from my uncle Mike who learned from my great-uncle Ray Subega, an early student of Inay's. The way I see it, the proof is in the pudding. Wiley has his diploma, who else here can boast that? I agree with Art Miraflor, it is a very GREAT book! Great job Wiley! I also read Wiley's Arnis book, and five stars on that one, too! For those who love to just soak it all in, this book has it! Wiley went to the farthest jungles of the Philippines to get instruction! as well as mass info for that project, and well worth the price. I can't wait to read his other books on Filipino MArtial Arts!!! Peace & Blessings, ~John ----------------------------------------- 1 of 2 people found the following review helpful: A few comments on this controversial book, March 10, 2004 Reviewer: magellan (Santa Clara, CA) - Despite the controversial and critical reviews of this book, I found it useful in learning about some of the history and background of grandmaster Cabales, and also the techniques of Cabales Escrima. I can't comment on the criticisms posted here on Wiley's book, as I'm not primarily an escrimador, being mainly a karate, kobudo, and iaido practitioner. However, I've trained in the Philippine stick arts too and I was just looking for a book that could provide some basic history on the art in addition to what I already knew. The first few chapters are a brief bio of master Cabales, from his boyhood in the Philippines to his eventual arrival in the states, and his opening up the first Escrima school in the U.S. It was interesting to read about master Cabales's early training experiences and his teacher, F. Dizon, the origins of the first Doce Pares organization (which Wiley claims precedes by over a hundred years the current organization under the Canete family), and other interesting bits of history. After many years of working odd jobs everywhere from the Tondo docks in Manila to Alaska, master Cabales finally settled in Stockton, where he stayed the rest his life, founded the first Escrima school, and saw his art spread from a small inland valley school in California to dozens of countries and thousands of students around the world. The following chapters are written by students and instructors who were close to master Cabales and who relate their training experiences with him, and the last half of the book is devoted to actual techniques. These show the basic strikes, blocks, disarms, and wrist and armlocks. I enjoyed these chapters too, although the problem with books on the martial arts these days is that you can get video tapes that are excellent on literally hundreds of martial arts which show the art far better than the static photos in books. I myself have dozens of tapes by a number of masters on various styles of Escrima and other Pacific Rim arts that are far better than the photos in any book. Nevertheless, since the book basically combines a brief history and biography of the master, a number of personal memoirs of the master, and a presentation of the basic technical aspects of the art, I didn't mind that too much. Now not only is Cabales Escrima well established in the U.S. but a number of other Pacific Rim arts as well, including Filipino and Indonesian Kuntao, other Filipino styles and arts such as Pekiti Tersia, Lameco Escrima, Kali Illustrisimo, Kaji Kali, Bakbakan Kali, Arnis, Panajakman, Panantukan, Sikaran, and a number of styles of Indonesian Pentjak-Silat, such as Serak or Sera, Tongkat, Cikalong, Cidepok, Mande Muda, Bukti-Negara, several styles of Cimande, Suci Hati, Perisai Diri, and some others I'm no doubt forgetting. I've studied Kali Ilustrisimo, Inayan Escrima, Ted LucayLucay's style of escrima, Serak Silat, and Wagi Kali Silat myself, and enjoy them very much although they're not my main focus as a martial artist, as I said. But I've certainly learned to appreciate the Philippine and Indonesian arts more, which are truly great martial arts themselves, and I think it's great they're finally getting the recognition they deserve, although it looks like the Escrima world! has the same political problems as the rest of the martial arts. However the controversy surrounding this book plays out, it's amazing to consider that a once obscure art only about 20 years ago is now an international phenomenon with hundreds of instructors in the U.S. and many more overseas. Angel Cabales's Serrada Escrima has perhaps had the greatest influence of all and I hope his and the many other fine Filipino stick arts continue to grow and prosper. ----------------------------------------- 1 of 8 people found the following review helpful: Mark Wiley, what?, December 11, 2002 Reviewer: Max Driffill (Richmond, IN) If the book had been a more technical treatment, that would have been great. It has that, but not enough. But even still, what it did have would have been ggggreat if, only if, Mark had not put in a bunch of sillyness. What is the sillyness you ask? It is the goofy stories. I couldn't stand his little asides about the Magical Angel. I am so weary of the the "super-master" stories that some martial artists find so appealing. Keep in mind that I am not criticising Master Cabeles in anyway at all. I am sure he was great. But I think we diminish the greatness of lives lived when we begin to exagerate the reality of them. Let us be in awe of the real, not the fabrication we can easily make up. At times Mark seems like a 4 year old who sees in his mentor superhuman quality. That can be endearing the hands of a capable writer, but that Mark Willey is not. ----------------------------------------- 5 of 14 people found the following review helpful: The Secrets of Cabales Serrada Escrima (Secrets of Series), July 17, 2002 Reviewer: Ron Mark Sinclair (Stockton) For those of you that haven't heard of me, I have studied Serrada extensively in Stockton, California. I read the other reviews, and Master Khlid Khan, should not have complimented Mark Wiley. He did so to promote the book because he is in it. Guru Dennis Servaes, also in it and has trained with Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales and gave a review which tells it like it is. I would also advise against the purchase of books by Mark Wiley, or anything to do with Daren Tibon. Angel would not have authorized either book, and I cannot recommend either of wiley's books! Too much misinformation. I understand Daren is no longer recognized as a Master! ----------------------------------------- 7 of 19 people found the following review helpful: The Secrets of Cabales Serrada Escrima, July 4, 2002 Reviewer: A reader For all his supposed knowledge, Mark Wiley didn't have the diplomacy to not disrespect his seniors, including the Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales Sr. The martial arts community seeing the Grandmaster in the Photos, may think that he is agreeing with what went into Mr. Wiley's book, but that is not the case. An incident at the photo shoot precluded further discussions and Mr. Wiley left early for the East Coast. On page 17 Mr. Wiley shows a photo of Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales Sr. and addresses him as Vincent Cabales, yet he lists Daren and Jerry Perciado as Masters. Jerry Perciado, has studied Serrada, for many years, off and on, but has not received his Master Degree, yet both books lists Jerry as Master. A photo of Jerry receiving his Advanced Degree has captions that it is Jerry getting his Master Diploma. Jerry has not completed his Master training. Mark Wiley in the first book list of masters omitted #16 Master Stanley Wells, because Stanley is loyal to Grandams! ter Vincent Angel Cabales Sr. At the photo shoot for the second book, I listened as Master Stanley Wells confronted Mr. Wiley about the inaccuracies in the first book. And I listened as Mark Wiley, promised to include Master Stanley Wells in the master list in the second edition. Master Stanley Wells, began training before Master Jaime Cabiero started in the early 70's. As for the Filipino culture, Mr. Wiley included in the book the language of Tagolog, rather than English or Vissayan as Grandmaster Angel would have preferred. The contributing articles that most of the people wrote were ridiculous, and should have been omitted also. Mark claims that he got the list of Masters from Angel at his kitchen table, but the information that Mark Wiley used for the lineage list was obtained from Master Frank Rillamas. Frank did the caligraphy for all of the diplomas after Diploma number five, so had kept a list, and that is why the book made a mistake on who got Diploma number one. ! Master Frank Rillamas, told Mark that he thought Master John C! abales m ight be the oldest. Angel would not have made that mistake. During Angel's life he mentioned that he wanted 12 true disciples. He is well remembered as an honest and caring man. He had 12 disciples and he knew who they were. Angel spoke of his disciples hundreds of times and Daren was not one of them. It was sometime after Angel died that they called themselves 'Angel's Disciples.' If they were true disciples they would reflect back to when Angel was alive, and appointed his son Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales Sr., to take over the Serrada Academy as his main last wish. Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales, actually took over the responsibility of the academy in 1990, a year before Angel died. If they were disciples of Angel they would help out, regardless of differences. I do not recommend Mr. Wiley's books on Serrada. Mr. Wiley has put out a lot of effort in the wrong direction, listening to Jerry Presiado and Daren Tibon. Jerry did not recieve his Master diploma and Daren'! s is no longer recognized by the Cabales Serrada System and Accademy. Mark Wiley needs to contact Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales Sr. when he writes about Serrada. Actually he did contact the Grandmaster for book number one promissing that if he could go through with the book with permission from Grandmaster Vincent Angel Cabales Sr. he would give some of the money to Angel's kids. Grandmaster Vincent Cabales said to give his part of the money to Tess, Angels wife for Angel's small children. Mark said that he would have Vincent proof read it before it went to print. But one day it was published without Vincent looking it over before it went to print. There was a note in the front of the book that Daren told me that his wife wrote and had Angel sign. I believe the note was never signed by Angel! Angel would have refused! We would have missed the second photo shoot if I hadn't caught Mark Wiley and Tony Somera going right past the class at Gong Lee's after visiting with Dar! en Tibon. The Grandmaster could have answered a lot of questio! ns, if M ark Wiley would have asked. Both books are absolutely worthless! So I highly recommend against them. Train hard and have fun! ----------------------------------------- 13 of 14 people found the following review helpful: A Escrimador of G.M. Angel Cabales since 1968., January 28, 2001 Reviewer: Art Miraflor (Stockton, Ca.) If any Martial Artists wants a complete understanding of the Serrada System, this is the book. I have read the book and it doesn't get any better than this. Mr Wiley is very accurate on the system and techniques because he is an Escrimador. He didn't just read some books than write this book. This book is long overdue. No one has given credit before like this book does, to the early students of G.M. Angel Cabales. In the early days G.M.Angel didn't have one paper, no application, class out line, or certificates of any kind. Everything you learned, you kept in your head, that way other students wouldn't know what number or how many blocks you really knew. Mr. Mark Wiley has given our great Master, Angel Cabales the highest honor by rewriting this new book. Tuttle Publishing has a top notch author of Fililino Martial Arts, and should be very lucky and proud of his quality products on Martial Arts. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest