Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 05:57:01 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #133 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. FMA or silat instructors in the DC area (Jeff Monaghan) 2. Re: Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl (WoodyTX) 3. RE: Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 4. Re: Wing Chun and the FMA's (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area (ray man) 6. Re: Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area (iPat) 7. Re: Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area (AIDAN COCHRANE) 8. Garimot Arnis Buno Seminar in Chicago (GatPuno@aol.com) 9. Re: Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl (TCKWAN) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:10:26 -0400 From: "Jeff Monaghan" To: Subject: [Eskrima] FMA or silat instructors in the DC area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To all, I may be relocating to Washington D.C. area in May or June. I'm looking for an instructor in FMA or Silat. I prefer to study in Inosanto, Lucay, Pekti Tersia, or Sayak Kali and Mande Muda or De Thour's Silat slat but I am open to other styles. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Jeff Monaghan --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:53:02 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Not to quibble, since as a previous reply noted that Emil had a number of advantages going in (awareness of the coming confrontation, size, youth, wrestling background, etc). But does that really make any difference? If someone only trains for the "fair fight" scenario, can they realistically call it "self-defense" or "reality-based"? Woody On Apr 7, 2005 7:40 AM, TCKWAN wrote: > Hi; > > fwiw, > > the fight was not a 'challenge' type scenario where both fighters > squared off first; it was, IMHO, more of a semi-ambush thing where > Emil rushed in from the side and essentially tried to surprised Wm > Cheung,; Emil also had a wrestling background... > > Chuck > > Bart Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > > Just about every fight I hear about that involves > > "technical" arts > > (Wing Chun, Capoeira, etc) ends up turning into a > > ground-and-pound, or > > simple fistfight. I'm sure that says something, but > > I'm not sure > > what. > > > > Woody > > > > > > > > > >The thing about Wing Chun is that it is supposed to > >work in a fistfight. When you use it in a fist fight > >it doesn't look like a Wing Chun workout, it looks > >like a fight. So that makes perfect sense to me. When > >people expect a fight to look and feel like their > >normal workout, then comes the problem regardless of > >whatever "technical" art they do. > > > >A lot of Wing Chun people are stuck in the first form > >and in rolling arms. It's the same with a lot of > >people in FMA who get stuck in abesedario or sumbrada. > >They mistake the drill for the art and they mistake > >the art for fighting. No matter what art or style you > >train, if you fail to internalize the methods then you > >won't be able to use what you've learned in a high > >stess fast paced situation. The only way to work > >through that is through light and full contact random > >combative practice, aka sparring. Both Capoeira and > >Wing Chun in general tend not to do too much of that. > > > >===== > >Be Cool. > > > >Bart Hubbard > >Capital Doce Pares > >www.capitaldocepares.com > >_______________________________________________ > >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:55:27 +0300 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Btw, for those who are interested, there's a fuzzy video clip of the fight in Boztepe's pages at http://www.ebmas.net/. (direct link to the video: http://www.ebmas.net/video/emin-vs-cheung.mpeg) Doesn't show much though, starts and ends in the middle. - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext TCKWAN [mailto:TCKWAN@ROGERS.COM] > Sent: 07 April, 2005 15:41 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl > > > Hi; > > fwiw, > > the fight was not a 'challenge' type scenario where both fighters > squared off first; it was, IMHO, more of a semi-ambush thing where > Emil rushed in from the side and essentially tried to surprised Wm > Cheung,; Emil also had a wrestling background... > > Chuck > > Bart Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > > Just about every fight I hear about that involves > > "technical" arts > > (Wing Chun, Capoeira, etc) ends up turning into a > > ground-and-pound, or > > simple fistfight. I'm sure that says something, but > > I'm not sure > > what. > > > > Woody > > > > > > > > > >The thing about Wing Chun is that it is supposed to > >work in a fistfight. When you use it in a fist fight > >it doesn't look like a Wing Chun workout, it looks > >like a fight. So that makes perfect sense to me. When > >people expect a fight to look and feel like their > >normal workout, then comes the problem regardless of > >whatever "technical" art they do. > > > >A lot of Wing Chun people are stuck in the first form > >and in rolling arms. It's the same with a lot of > >people in FMA who get stuck in abesedario or sumbrada. > >They mistake the drill for the art and they mistake > >the art for fighting. No matter what art or style you > >train, if you fail to internalize the methods then you > >won't be able to use what you've learned in a high > >stess fast paced situation. The only way to work > >through that is through light and full contact random > >combative practice, aka sparring. Both Capoeira and > >Wing Chun in general tend not to do too much of that. > > > >===== > >Be Cool. > > > >Bart Hubbard > >Capital Doce Pares > >www.capitaldocepares.com > >_______________________________________________ > >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:24:59 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Wing Chun and the FMA's Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jon, About 20 years ago I had the opportunity to study Wing Chun with a very accomplished player who was second generation from Wong Shun Leung. I had almost exactly the same experience with Wing Chun as you did...there was nothing gentle about this man's trapping skills at all. His trapping was extremely jarring to the body, and was especially painful to my arms. I remember his Taun Sao was not just a pat to the side, but rather was delivered in such a way as to drive my arm, at the elbow, into my rib cage. Needless to say, I was overwhelmed. And to try to close and tie him up was futile, to say the least. Once our arms engaged, I couldn't feel him at all, as he would yield, suck me in, then effortlessly toss me past him into the wall!! I spent a couple of years training one-on-one with him, and to this day have retained a tremendous amount of what I learned in those two all-too-short years in my empty hand methods today. My Chi Sao, under this man, was sharpened to the point where my partner and I regularly practiced in the dark, and I felt perfectly comfortable there. I gained an enormous respect for Sifu Leung and his students from this exposure, and came to appreciate the art as practiced by Sifu Leung as a viable, effective, decisive, and all-around butt-kicking system. Fortunately Wing Chun blends with my root system, Serrada Eskrima, beautifully, a marriage made in martial arts heaven, so to speak. Kim Satterfield Midwest School of Eskrima In a message dated 4/8/2005 5:57:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I said a couple of posts ago that I had never really been hooked in by Wing Chun, until a couple of years ago when a WC guy contacted me about taking some eskrima lessons. After about 5 mins I really started to wonder why he had an interest at all in training with me, he is just at another level all together. I have wrestled since I was a kid and I have once managed to take him down in a sparring or kadena de mano situation. His WC is truly non classical and devastating. Except at largo he is capable of utterly dominating me, even though he has a 6th of my stick experience. His trapping is destructive and jarring to the body. I guess it helps that he is a disciple of a Hung Kuen master, but despite an impressive martial arts resume he remains open minded. I think the deal here is that he has gone well beyond the basics - he does not really seem to have any fixed stances or postures - and made everything into a functional coherent whole, remaining very true to his classical roots, while keeping an open mind. He describes us both as "Modern Traditionalists" Jon --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "ray man" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:43:41 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi ALL, I wonder if anybody could help me find a FMA school in Birmingham(UK) and can someone also provide me with some pointers on how to assess a good school and what the best training method are for a beginner. Regards Ray --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:17:44 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net id contact Krishna Godhannia Ray, a nice guy and talented too!. www.krishnagodhannia.org i think On Apr 8, 2005 1:43 PM, ray man wrote: > Hi ALL, > > I wonder if anybody could help me find a FMA school in Birmingham(UK) and > can someone also provide me with some pointers on how to assess a good > school and what the best training method are for a beginner. > > Regards > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:39:46 +0100 (BST) From: AIDAN COCHRANE Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Any Eskrima/Kali/Arnis Schools in the UK- Birmingham Area To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Check out Krishna Godhania from Warriors Eskrima which is a very good comprehensive style. Krishna has made several visits to the Phillipines and is probably one of the most knowledgable people from that neck of the woods. You can contact him at Kgodhania@aol.com Aiodhan ray man wrote: Hi ALL, I wonder if anybody could help me find a FMA school in Birmingham(UK) and can someone also provide me with some pointers on how to assess a good school and what the best training method are for a beginner. Regards Ray _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:42:39 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Garimot Arnis Buno Seminar in Chicago Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I just want to let the group knows, that I will be in Chicago April 30 and May 1, for the Garimot Arnis-Buno-Hilot Seminar. If you are in the area please Contact Guro Dennis Duria @barabay2000@yahoo.com Guro Nate Defensor hope to see you there again. June 24-25-26 Garimot Arnis Training Group International Summer Retreat @ TY Park (N.Park DR and Griffin Blvd. Hollywood, Florida) $85 a day $200 three days. 1st day Knife Fighting (Tres Puntos of Cavite) Sparring-Sparring (Sparring optional) 2nd day Stick Fighting (Siete Colores Arnis, Laro to Corto) Sparring, sparring (optional) 3rd day (Filipino Wrestling/grappling) Harimaw Buno, Mano-mano, Sikadtukan) Sparring. For info Contact: gatpuno@aol.com (954-432-4433) July 16-26 a ten day Training in the Philippines with Best of the Best of Laguna Eskrima. This includes to view the two Tournament of Laguna, Un-padded Stickfighting of Magdalena and Paetem, Laguna. (Fees $1,200 US Dollar includes lodging, breakfast, and land transportation Manila to Paete and vise versa) Training includes, Largo Mano Laguna different style, Harimaw Buno, and Hilot. Contact:gatpuno@aol.com (954-432-4433) August 12-14 -3rd Annual World Filipino Martial Arts Association Expo & Laban Laro Coast Anaheim Hotel, Anaheim, CA For more info visit www. Worldfma.com or Contact Guro Myrlino Hufana and also I will be giving Hilot treatment at the event , please contact Guro Jay De Leon for Hilot appointments only. September 3-4, First Garimot Arnis Seminar in Hershey, PA (Location not yet determined) October1-2 Garimot Arnis Training Group International Seminar in Apex Martial Arts, St. Louis MO. Contact: Tim Rivera Hope to see new and faces this year, Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA E-mail: gatpuno@aol.com Website: garimot.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:43:03 -0400 From: TCKWAN To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: ED v12.127 - wing chun brawl Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi; not quibbling at all, my point only being that WmC was taken to the ground from being blindsided/ambushed (so it doesn't matter if you're a WingChun guy, or Capoiera guy, or whatever technical art), resulting in the 'ground and pound' ; of course, Emil's WingTsun(tm) folks claim their side 'won' as evidenced by the takedown, while the WmC folks say that, despite this 'cowardly' deed, WmC was still able to use his WC to defend himself successfully on the ground and was unhurt, as evidenced by his continued seminar the next day with no evidence of any injuries... this fight was on one of the commercial tapes the WT folks were selling, with their particular commentary; the WmC folks had offered a counter-commentary/analysis on their own web-sites :-) later, Chuck WoodyTX wrote: >Not to quibble, since as a previous reply noted that Emil had a number >of advantages going in (awareness of the coming confrontation, size, >youth, wrestling background, etc). > >But does that really make any difference? If someone only trains for >the "fair fight" scenario, can they realistically call it >"self-defense" or "reality-based"? > >Woody > > > >On Apr 7, 2005 7:40 AM, TCKWAN wrote: > > >>Hi; >> >>fwiw, >> >>the fight was not a 'challenge' type scenario where both fighters >>squared off first; it was, IMHO, more of a semi-ambush thing where >>Emil rushed in from the side and essentially tried to surprised Wm >>Cheung,; Emil also had a wrestling background... >> >>Chuck >> >>Bart Hubbard wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>Just about every fight I hear about that involves >>>"technical" arts >>>(Wing Chun, Capoeira, etc) ends up turning into a >>>ground-and-pound, or >>>simple fistfight. I'm sure that says something, but >>>I'm not sure >>>what. >>> >>>Woody --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest